Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 313696 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1320 on: March 01, 2015, 09:33:02 AM »
Jewell/Friends,

Quote
Thank You with all my heart for the beautiful words about Swami Vivekananda!
I enjoy so much reading about Him...

Yes,Swamiji was a rare blend of Divinity and humanity rolled in one,a truly multisided genius.

Here is an excerpt from 'Sri Ramakrishna,The Great Master' on how Sarat chandra Chakravarthy(Swami Saradananda) met Sri Ramakrishna and his description of how he saw the master dance for the first time :

2. Our acquaintance with Vaikunthanath Sannyal

We were then studying in the St. Xavier?s college, Calcutta, and had had the privilege of meeting the Master only twice or thrice. As the college was closed on that day, we settled that we should go to the Master in the evening. When we were going by boat to Dakshineswar, we remember, we were told that, like us, another passenger was going to the Master. Talking with him, we came to know that his name was Vaikunthanath Sannyal and that he also had met the Master only recently. We remember also that when a passenger in the boat heard the name of the Master from us and used words of ridicule regarding him, Vaikunthanath?s scornful retort silenced the man. It was about two or half past two in the afternoon when we reached our destination.As soon as we entered the Master's room and bowed down at his feet, he said, "Ah, you have come today! We could not have met you, had you come a little later. I am going to Calcutta today; a carriage has been sent for. There is a festival there, a festival of the Brahmos. It is, however, good that we have met. Please sit down. What a disappointment it would have been had you had to return without meeting me!"

3. We became acquainted with Baburam for the first time.
We sat on a mat spread on the floor of the room and asked the Master afterwards, "Shall we be admitted where you are going?" The Master said, "Why not? You can freely go there if you like. It is the house of Mani Mallick of Sinduriapati." Seeing a young man, not very slender, fair and wearing a red cloth, entering the room, the Master said, "Hallo! Please tell them the number of Mani Mallick's house." The young man humbly said, "81, Chitpore Road, Sinduriapati." Seeing the gentle behaviour and the calm nature of the young man, we thought he might be the son of a Brahmin officer of the temple. But when, a couple of months afterwards, we saw him coming out of the university examination hall, we talked with him and found that our impression was totally wrong. We then came to know that his name was Baburam and his home was in the village of Antpur, near Tarakeswar. He was living in a rented house at Combuliatola, Calcutta, and went and stayed with the Master now and then. It is needless to say that he is now well known as Swami Premananda of the Sri Ramakrishna Order. The carriage arrived in a short time. Asking Baburam to take his towel, clothes, the small bag of spices, etc., and bowing down to the Mother, the Master entered the carriage. Baburam took those things and sat on the other side of the carriage. That day another person also went with the Master to Calcutta. On inquiry we found that his name was Pratapchandra Hazra. Fortunately a passenger boat was available as soon as the Master had left. We took the boat and alighted at Barabazar in Calcutta. Thinking that the festival would take place at sunset, we waited in the house of a friend. Vaikunthanath, our new acquaintance, went somewhere else on business assuring us that he would meet us at the proper time at the place of the festival. We found out Mani Babu's house and it was about four when we reached there. When we inquired about the Master, a man showed us the way to the parlour upstairs. Reaching there, we found that the room was beautifully decorated with leaves and flowers for the festival and a few devotees were talking with one another. On inquiry, we were told that the midday prayer, music, etc., were finished and prayer, Kirtan, etc., would take place again in the evening. The Master had been taken into the inner apartment at the request of the lady devotees.

4. The extraordinary Sankirtan in Mani Mallick's house.
 When we came to know that it would be some time before the prayer would begin, we went out. Afterwards, at dusk we came back to the place. Scarcely had we reached the road in front of the house when sweet music and the loud sounds of Mridanga greeted our ears. Knowing that the Kirtan had begun, we hastened to the parlour. But what we saw there beggars description. There were crowds of people inside and outside the hall. So many people stood before every door and on the western roof that it was absolutely impossible to push through the crowd into the room. All were craning their necks and looking into the hall with calm eyes full of devotion. They were not at all conscious as to who was or was not beside them. Knowing that it was impossible to enter the room through the front door, we went round, crossed the western roof and were near a northern door of the parlour. As the crowd here was somewhat thin, we thrust our heads somehow into the room and saw!
 
5. The extraordinary dance of the Master.
 A wonderful scene! High waves of heavenly bliss were surging there in strong currents. All were lost altogether in the surge of the Kirtan, and laughed, wept and danced, and unable to control themselves, many were falling now and then violently on the ground. Swirled by emotion they behaved like a troop of lunatics. The Master was dancing in the centre of that God-intoxicated assemblage, now going forward with rapid steps, now going backward in a similar way to the cadence of the music. Wherever he was thus going forward in any direction, the people there, as if enchanted, made room for his free movement. An extraordinary divine light was playing on his smiling face all the while. A wonderful blending of extraordinary tenderness, sweetness and leonine strength was visible in every limb of the Master?s body, That superb dance! In it there was no ostentation, no jumping or hopping; no unnatural gestures of the limbs, no acrobatics; nor was there to be noticed any absence of control. There were in it, the natural posture and the movement of each limb as a gushing overflow of grace, bliss and sweetness surging from within, the like of which may be noticed in a large fish, long confined in a mud puddle, when it is suddenly let loose in a vast sheet of water?swimming in all directions, now slowly, now rapidly, and expressing its joy in diverse ways. It appeared as if the dance was the dynamic bodily expression of the surge of Bliss, the Reality of Brahman, he was experiencing within. Thus dancing, sometimes he lost his normal consciousness, sometimes his cloth would slip, which others would fasten firmly round his waist. Again, sometimes seeing someone losing normal consciousness on account of the infusion of spiritual emotions, he touched his breast and brought him back to consciousness. It seemed that descending on him, a divine bright stream of Bliss was spreading on all sides and enabling true devotees to see God face to face. It enabled those of lukewarm disposition to intensify their fervour, idle minds to go forward with enthusiasm to the realm of spirituality, and those extremely attached to the world to become fully free from that attachment for the time being. The surge of his divine emotion caught others and overpowered them.And, illumined by his purity, their minds ascended to an unknown high spiritual level. That Vijaykrishna Goswami, the Acharya of the General Brahmo Samaj, went now and then into a trance and lost consciousness needs no mention; many other Brahmo devotees also were in the same condition. Besides, the sweet-voiced Chiranjiv Sarma, as he was singing to the accompaniment of a one-stringed musical instrument the song, "Dance, O children of the Blissful Mother, round and round", became absorbed in the idea and lost himself in the Self. When a period of more than two hours was thus spent in enjoying the bliss of Kirtan, the song, "Who has brought down to the world the name of Hari, so sweet?" was sung and the waves of emotions, produced by that extraordinary Kirtan gradually subsided, and then salutations were made to all the teachers of devotion and religious communities. When all sat down at the end of the Kirtan, the Master, we remember, requested Acharya Nagendra Nath Chattopadhyaya to sing, "Drink the wine of the name of Hari, the essence of all beings, O my mind, and be inebriated", and he complied at once. Filled with fervour, he sang it sweetly, repeating it twice or thrice, which again gladdened the hearts of all.
Afterwards the Master began giving various instructions to all present in the course of the exposition of the theme that the Jiva would surely attain supreme Peace, if he could but withdraw his mind from sights, tastes and other worldly objects and offer it to the Lord. The women devotees also, who were sitting in the eastern part of the parlour behind the screen, put various questions to him on spiritual matters and enjoyed the illuminating replies. Thus, while the Master was engaged in solving the problems, he burst into singing a few songs in praise of the divine Mother composed by Ramprasad, Kamalakanta and other devout Sadhakas, to create a deep impression about that subject on the minds of all present. Of all the songs he sang, we distinctly remember the following five: 1.The black bee of my mind is fully engrossed in sucking the honey of the blue-lotus of Shyama's feet. 2.The kite of my mind was flying high in the sky of Shyama's feet. 3.All this is the play of the mad woman. (The Mother of the universe). 4.What is the fault of the poor mind; why do you falsely hold him guilty? 5.I grieve, O Mother, only because theft was committed in my house while I was wide awake, and Thou Mother, wert keeping watch over me. 

Namaskar
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 10:28:56 PM by Ravi.N »

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1321 on: March 01, 2015, 04:55:40 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,


I cannot even imagine how it feels like to be in the presence of such a wonderful happening,and  Glorious Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa. These people were indeed so lucky.
Thank You very much for sharing these beautiful words!
It reminded me on this famous picture. Whenever i read such words i have this in mind.
Beautiful!



Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1322 on: March 01, 2015, 06:20:19 PM »
Watching this picture and bliisful face of Sri Ramakrishna,i feel,this is exactly what God,what Self and Reality is.
A pure Joy,a pure Beauty,pure Love,Song and Dancing,pure,pure Bliss!...
All Good and Wonderful! All Free and Soulful! All Majestic and Glorious!...


With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 06:24:46 PM by Jewell »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1323 on: March 01, 2015, 09:04:39 PM »
Jewell/friends,

Quote
Watching this picture and bliisful face of Sri Ramakrishna,i feel,this is exactly what God,what Self and Reality is.
A pure Joy,a pure Beauty,pure Love,Song and Dancing,pure,pure Bliss!...
All Good and Wonderful! All Free and Soulful! All Majestic and Glorious!...

Absolutely.There are only 3 or 4 pictures available of the Master!One of this is the one snapped after his passing away!The one that you have posted is an absolute beauty-the lips parted in smile,so divine and Blissful.
Sri Ramakrishna passed away in 1886 and even as late as 1885 when the sore throat developed and he was cautioned to avoid kirtan singing and dance,the Master still gave the slip to the devotees and took part in the festival at panihati.The Gospel of sri Ramakrishna refers to the conversation of Sri Ramakrishna with 'M' where he is asking 'M' and other devotees to participate in the Festival but does not record what happened subsequently.Swami saradananda covers this portion in his book and we have another glimpse about the physical beauty of the master and his glorious dance:

5. The story of the festival at Panihati
The thirteenth day of the bright fortnight of the month of Jyaishtha was drawing near. An annual fair of the Vaishnava community is held on this day in the village of Panihati on the Ganga, a few miles north of Calcutta. The story of the burning renunciation and detachment of Raghunath Das Goswami, one of the companions of the great lord Chaitanya, is well known throughout Bengal. Leaving behind a very beautiful wife and immense riches, Raghunath, the only son of his father, came to Santipur to take refuge at the feet of Sri Chaitanya, who sent him back to await at home the ripening of the too insipient dispassion for worldly life. In implicit obedience to this command of the great lord, Raghunath returned home and keeping hidden in his heart the strong desire for renouncing the world, began helping his father and uncle in managing the property and other worldly matters. Although he acted thus, he could not do without seeing the companions of Sri Chaitanya now and then. He used to visit them with the permission of his father, pass a few days in their holy company and return home. Days thus passed on. Raghunath spent his time in the world, biding his time for renouncing it. In course of time Sri Gauranga was initiated into Sannyasa and lived at Puri. Placed in charge of the preaching of the Vaishnava religion, Nityananda made the village of Khardaha, situated on the Ganga, the chief centre of his work and travelled far and wide to many places of Bengal singing and preaching the name of God and initiating many people into that faith. Once when Nityananda with his friends and disciples of the inner circle was staying and preaching at the village of Panihati, Raghunath came to see him and was asked by him to feed him and the circle of devotees with flattened rice, curd, milk, sugar, plantain, etc., mixed into a paste and offered to the Deity. Raghunath gladly consented and gave a sumptuous feast to the hundreds of people who had come to see the revered Nityananda on the bank of the Ganga on that occasion. When Raghunath went to bow down to Nityananda and take leave of him at the end of the festival, the latter embraced him in a partial trance and said, 'The time is now ripe; if you now renounce the world and go to the great lord at Puri, he will accept you and will place you under Sanatana Goswami for your training with a view to perfecting your spiritual life.' Raghunath leaped in joy at that command of Nityananda; he paid a short visit to his house and renounced the world for ever and went to Puri. Raghunath left the place, but in commemoration of this event the Vaishnava devotees hold an annual fair in the village of Panihati on the Ganga, in the name of Gauranga and Nityananda with a view to having similar grace of the divine Lord. This afterwards came to be known to the devotees as the 'Festival of the flattened rice at Panihati'.

(The pictures regarding this episode/place may be found here:
1.http://dominiqueamendola.com/print/panihati-festival
2.http://www.vedantastl.org/photo-gallery/holy-places/17173244

6. The Master's desire to go and witness that festival (Panihati Festival)
The Master had, we have mentioned elsewhere, joined that festival many times before. But, owing to various reasons, he had not done so for a few years since his devotees, educated in the Western ways, came to him. He expressed the desire of going and witnessing the festival this year together with his devotees and said to us, "A fair of bliss-a veritable mart of the name of Hari assembles there on that day; you 'Young Bengal' have never seen such a thing. Let us go and witness it." Although a party of devotees like Ramchandra and others became very happy at the proposal, some of them thought of the pain in his throat and tried to dissuade him. In order to satisfy them he said, "I'll take here a little food early and return after staying there an hour or two; that will not do much harm. The pain in the throat might increase if I have much of ecstasy, but I will be careful to keep it in check." All objections were thrown to the winds at those words of his and the devotees began to arrange for his trip to Panihati.
7. The preparations on the day of the festival before starting for Panihati It was the thirteenth day of the bright fortnight, the day of the Panihati festival. About twenty-five devotees in two boats came to Dakshineswar at 9 a.m. Some came there on foot. A separate boat hired for the Master was seen tied at the Ghat. A few women devotees had come very early in the morning. They joined the Holy Mother in arranging a meal for the Master and the devotees. All took their food and were ready to start by 10 a.m.
8. Why the Holy Mother did not accompany the party
When the Master had taken his meal, the Holy Mother sent word to him through a woman devotee asking him if she too might go. The Master said to the devotee, "You all are coming, I see; let her come if she likes." When the words were thus reported to her, the Holy Mother said, "Many people are going with him and there will also be a very big crowd; it will be very difficult for me to get down from the boat and witness the festival; I?ll not go." The Holy Mother gave up the idea of going, fed the two or three women devotees who had decided to go and asked them to go in the same boat with the Master.

continued......
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 09:50:42 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1324 on: March 01, 2015, 09:31:41 PM »
Sri Ramakrishna's last visit to the festival of panihati(1885) continued...

9. What they saw on reaching the place of the festival Many people were seen to have assembled round the old pipal tree on the bank of the Ganga when the party reached Panihati at about 12 noon. The Vaishnava devotees were enjoying the bliss of Sankirtan in many places. But, although they did so, many of them did not seem to have actually lost themselves in the singing of the name of the divine Lord. It was everywhere a sort of lifeless affair. Both before and after arriving at Panihati, Narendranath, Balaram, Girishchandra, Ramchandra, Mahendranath and other principal devotees earnestly and repeatedly requested the Master not to mix with any Kirtan party and get inebriated. For, if he did so, his ecstasy would be inevitable and the pain in his throat would increase thereby.
10. Mani Sen's house
The Master got down from the boat and went direct to the house of Mani Sen. Happy at his coming, all the household of Mani Babu bowed to him and took him to the parlour and seated him there. It was a room well-furnished in the English fashion with tables, chairs, sofas, carpets, etc. After only ten or fifteen minutes' rest there, he got up with all others to pay obeisance to the Lord, Sri Radhakanta, in the temple of that family.
11. His temple
The temple was situated very near the parlour. We came direct through the side door to the music-hall adjoining the temple and were blessed to see the pair of images of Radha and Krishna. The images were beautiful. Gazing on the images for a while, the Master made salutations to them in a divine semi-conscious mood. Coming five or six steps down from the music-hall, one reaches the quadrangular temple courtyard with suites of rooms on all the four sides. The gate is so situated that one sees the images as soon as one enters the courtyard of the temple. When the Master was making salutations, a Kirtan party entered the courtyard through that gate and commenced singing. It appeared that each party that came to the fair, started singing Kirtan in the temple courtyard first and then went to the bank of the Ganga and enjoyed the chanting of the Lord's name. A tall, fat, middle-aged man of fair complexion with the sacred thread, and a tuft of hair on his head, his body adorned with sandal-paste, marks of the sacred wheel, etc., came to the courtyard then, counting beads in a small bag. With an upper garment hanging from his shoulder and a white 'Rally's 49' cloth without coloured border, washed clean, put on in a very tidy manner and having a bunch of coins in a fold of that cloth at the waist, he seemed at the very first sight to be a tramp of a Goswami who had come out fully dressed in the fair to make a little money playing on the faith of others. In order to excite the Kirtan party and probably to show himself off to the new-comers as a great devotee, he came and immediately joined the party and began to roar, dance and gesticulate as if he were in trance.
 12. The Master danced during Bhavasamadhi
The Master stood on one side of the temple after making salutations. Smiling to see the Goswami feigning ecstasy and the orderly disposition of his dress and ornaments, he said to Narendra and other devotees beside him in a low voice, "Mark the hypocrisy." There was seen a gentle smile on the lips of everyone at that merry remark of his. And all were free from anxiety to think that he had kept himself under control without experiencing any spiritual emotion. But the next moment, before the devotees had any idea of the how and when of the matter, the Master, in the twinkling of an eye, had come down in one bound to the middle of the Kirtan party and gone into ecstasy losing all consciousness. The devotees then hurried down from the music-hall and stood round him. He sometimes gained partial normal consciousness and danced with the stride of a lion; and sometimes lost outward awareness and stood still. Dancing under the influence of spiritual emotions, he was now proceeding, now receding with a rapid step to the timing of the music. He seemed like a fish swimming about in great delight in a sea of bliss. Each movement of his limbs clearly indicated it; but it is impossible to give expression to the wonderful manifestation of that fully natural and unrestrained power of bliss where beauty and tenderness had blended together in a sweet harmony. We have witnessed many beautiful dances full of gesture by both male and female dancers but never did we have a glimpse of that happy synthesis of power and beauty as we did in the unrestrained and yet perfectly balanced dance of the Master, when he lost himself in the divine moods of spiritual emotions. When his body, overflowing with the intense joy of divine feelings, swayed to and fro in quick steps, one seriously wondered whether it was made of any solid, physical substance at all. One felt as if waves, mountain high, rose in a sea of bliss and were going forward carrying everything before them and would merge that very moment, liquid in liquid, and vanish out of sight. The Kirtan party surrounded the Master and sang with zeal and happiness multiplied a hundredfold.
13. On the way to Raghava Pandit's house
 About half an hour elapsed this way when, seeing the Master in a somewhat normal consciousness, the devotees tried to take him away from the midst of the Kirtan party. All should, it was decided, return to the boats after paying their obeisance to the pair of images and the Salagrama, which Pandit Raghava, a companion of the great lord Sri Chaitanya, had daily worshipped in his house, situated a little more than a mile from that place. The Master consented and started with the devotees from Mani Sen?s temple. But the Kirtan party did not desist from following him. They began coming behind, singing the name of God with great fervour. The Master went forward a few steps only, when he stood motionless in ecstasy. When he regained partial consciousness, the devotees requested him to walk on. He took three or four steps and was in ecstasy once more. As this happened over and over again, the devotees were compelled to proceed very slowly.
 14. The wonderful beauty of the Master in Bhavasamadhi
We do not remember to have ever seen the divine effulgent beauty which we saw that day in the person of the Master in ecstasy. It is not in human power to describe that wonderful beauty of his divine person. We never imagined before that such a change could come on a man's body in the twinkling of an eye under the influence of spiritual emotions. His tall figure as seen by us daily, looked much taller and appeared to be as light as a body seen in a dream. Getting brighter, the slightly dark colour of his body turned into a fair complexion. Brightened by the divine mood and lit up by an incomparable smile playing on his slightly parted lips, his face beamed with glory, peace, bliss and compassion, and spread a wonderful light which illumined all sides. Bewitched, as it were, by the sight, the vast congregation forgot all other things and followed him almost unknowingly. The bright ochre colour of the silk he put on, became one with the lustre of his body and he was mistaken for a person surrounded by flames of fire.
18. The Master returned to the boat and bestowed his grace on Navachaitanya
It took a long time, about three hours, to walk a distance of one mile and reach Pandit Raghava's house. The Master took half an hour to go to the temple and touch the Salagrama and pay his obeisance to the images and take rest. The vast crowd of people that came with him, dispersed in various directions. The devotees brought him to the boat when they saw that the crowd had thinned. But here also there came to pass a wonderful event. Knowing that the Master had come to the festival, Navachaitanya Mitra of Konnagar became eager to see him and was searching everywhere for him. Now that he saw the Master was in the boat and that the boat was about to start, he came running like one mad. He fell at his feet and wept on account of the intensity of the emotions of his heart, praying, "Please bestow grace on me." The Master saw his eagerness and devotion and touched him in a divine mood. We do not know what extraordinary vision he had as the result of that touch, but his importunate weeping was turned into infinite delight in the twinkling of an eye. He danced unrestrainedly in the boat as if he had lost consciousness of the world. He sang the Master's glory in various hymns and bowed down to him over and over again. When some time had elapsed this way, the Master passed his hand over Navachaitanya's back and soothed him by giving him various instructions. Although Navachaitanya had seen the Master many times before, he could not receive his grace earlier. He was blessed to receive it that day. He then placed his son in charge of his worldly affairs, lived in a cottage in his own village on the Ganga like a Vanaprasthin and spent the rest of his life in spiritual practices and in singing hymns glorifying the name of the Master. The aged Navachaitanya used to have ecstasy during Sankirtan from now on and many loved and respected him on seeing his devotion and blissful figure. He was thus able by the grace of the Master to awaken the love of God in the hearts, of many people during the last part of his life.

The master and the devotees returned to Dakshineswar in the boat at 20:30 hrs that day!

Saradananda, Swami (2012-05-13). Sri Ramakrishna-The Great Master (Kindle Locations 21984-21985). Sri Ramakrishna Math, Chennai. Kindle Edition.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 10:24:19 PM by Ravi.N »

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1325 on: March 01, 2015, 11:51:36 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Quote
     It is not in human power to describe that wonderful beauty of his divine person. We never imagined before that such a change could come on a man's body in the twinkling of an eye under the influence of spiritual emotions. His tall figure as seen by us daily, looked much taller and appeared to be as light as a body seen in a dream. Getting brighter, the slightly dark colour of his body turned into a fair complexion. Brightened by the divine mood and lit up by an incomparable smile playing on his slightly parted lips, his face beamed with glory, peace, bliss and compassion, and spread a wonderful light which illumined all sides. Bewitched, as it were, by the sight, the vast congregation forgot all other things and followed him almost unknowingly. The bright ochre colour of the silk he put on, became one with the lustre of his body and he was mistaken for a person surrounded by flames of fire.

How beautiful descrption of Swami Saradananda!!!

If i would ever imagine that beauty and state,this is exactly how selfrealized Sage should look intoxicated with Love and Bliss. And that is the difference between them and 'ordinary' people doing kirtans. I watched many through internet,many kirtans,but they were all ordinary,full of some strange excitement. But wordly one. I do not know which word to use. They all seem full of some craziness,almost lunacy. I never saw something like this.

But reading these words,watching photographs of Sri Ramakrishna,Anandamayi Ma,Bhagavan and Maharaj in Bliss,i do not see this. It is only beautiful spontaneity,some sublime state,full of sweetness and delicacy,and gentleness... Full of peace somehow. More than beautiful... And these words wonderfuly pictured that.

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1326 on: March 02, 2015, 07:19:38 AM »
Jewell/Friends,

Quote
But reading these words,watching photographs of Sri Ramakrishna,Anandamayi Ma,Bhagavan and Maharaj in Bliss,i do not see this. It is only beautiful spontaneity,some sublime state,full of sweetness and delicacy,and gentleness... Full of peace somehow. More than beautiful... And these words wonderfuly pictured that
.

Yes,what you have expressed is indeed true.Most people work themselves to a 'Frenzy' in a kirtan or Bhajan and imagine that it is devotion!Swami Vivekananda used to warn against this type of whipping up emotions that is mistaken for devotion.Devotion that is not founded on Dispassion and Discrimination is a Farce only.

Here is an excerpt from the same book wherein the Master asks Narendra about his opinion on another devotee ,Kedar.

8. Asked by the Master, Narendra gave his own opinion about Kedar
The Master asked Narendra after Kedar left, "Well, how did you find him? Have you noticed his great devotion to the Lord? He shed tears at the very mention of the Lord's name. One whose eyes pour forth streams of tears at the name of Hari, is a person liberated in life; Kedar is splendid ? isn't he?" The immaculate and vigorous Narendra hated from the bottom of his heart those persons who, having a male body, assumed a womanish attitude, be it for the sake of religion or for any other reason. That a man should approach God and find relief in weeping instead of confirming his own determination and perseverance, always appeared to him to be an insult to his manliness. Although entirely dependent on God, a man, he opined, should always remain a man and should surrender himself to Him like a man. Therefore, unable to approve whole-heartedly those words of the Master, he said, "But, sir, how can I know it? You know people's nature, it is for you to say it. Otherwise, simply by seeing a man weeping and wailing, one can never know if he is good or bad. If a man gazes at a point intensely for some time, the lachrymal ducts and glands are strained and tears flow. Again, most of those who weep singing or listening to songs describing Srimati's separation from Sri Krishna, do so,there is no doubt, by remembering their own separation from their wives or by ideally placing themselves in that condition. People like me, perfectly unacquainted with that condition, will not easily feel inclined like others to weep even when listening to Mathur-kirtan, noted for its pathos." Thus, when asked, Narendra always gave his independent opinions fearlessly to the Master on matters he knew to be true. The Master too was always pleased with this, and was never displeased. For, the Master who knew people's hearts, certainly felt that Narendra, to whom truth was life, had not on his conscience the slightest burden of a trifling fib, or, as the Master would himself put it, 'He had kept the inner chamber of his mind clear of dubious expressions.'

In general,unless the emotions are reigned in,true devotion will not flower.In the Master's case ,it is very Different.As he said that there are some plants where the fruit precedes the Flower!

"Eternally perfect sages like Prahlada also practise meditation and prayer. But they have realized the fruit, God-vision, even before their spiritual practice. They are like gourds and pumpkins, which grow fruit first and then flowers."

Namaskar
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 07:28:09 AM by Ravi.N »

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1327 on: March 02, 2015, 09:12:44 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

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    The immaculate and vigorous Narendra hated from the bottom of his heart those persons who, having a male body, assumed a womanish attitude, be it for the sake of religion or for any other reason. That a man should approach God and find relief in weeping instead of confirming his own determination and perseverance, always appeared to him to be an insult to his manliness. Although entirely dependent on God, a man, he opined, should always remain a man and should surrender himself to Him like a man.   

I agree whole heartedly with this what Swami Vivekananda has said!
In all matters man should be a man,like also,woman a woman! That does not mean man should be ruthless and insesitive,or woman brainless and easy manipulated. In both case there should be a blend of integrity and gentleness. Like Swami Himself was. Strong and manly,and yet,with a heart soft as butter.Even when He stands He stands with such dignity and manliness.
Many a times i saw very manly men,by look,with mustaches,dancing like a woman :D and imitating Sri Radha. It is ridiculous. So silly. I laughed so much! If man loves Krishna,let him be like Arjuna,or gopa. Not like gopi.
In the same way,Sri Radha should be regarded like a Mother,a Goddess. Coz She certainly is one!

I love the thoughts of Swami Vivekananda,and almost always agree with Him.
Like You have said,Sri Ramakrishna was something unique and quite different. He was all absorbed in everything He did,and become that very thing. Anything which was the object of His contepletation. I remember He even cleaned the room of some low caste man with His hair. And this is total surrender and absorbtion in that role. Truly amazing. I had a hard time to understand His behaviour earlier.
He was God Himself and a True Bhakta. In all glory. Something needed for that,and this paeticular time. How can we understand the ways of God...

Thank You for sharing these inspirational words!

With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 09:24:00 PM by Jewell »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1328 on: March 03, 2015, 07:17:06 AM »
Jewell,
Yes, as Ralph Waldo Emerson puts it "nothing is as sacred as the integrity of your own mind".
You have wonderfully captured the essence of Sri Ramakrishna -"He was all absorbed in everything He did,and become that very thing. Anything which was the object of His contempletation... And this is total surrender and absorbtion in that role. Truly amazing"

This is how Sri Aurobindo puts it:

In a recent and unique example, in the life of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa we see a colossal spiritual capacity first driving straight to the divine realization, taking, as it were, the Kingdom of Heaven by violence, and then seizing upon one Yoga method after another and extracting the substance out of it with an incredible rapidity, always to return to the heart of the whole matter, the realization and possession of God by the power of love, by the extension of inborn spirituality into various experience and by the spontaneous play of an intuitive knowledge. Such an example cannot be generalized. Its object also was special and temporal, to exemplify in the great and decisive experience of a Master-soul the truth, now most necessary to humanity, towards which a world long divided into jarring sects and schools is with difficulty laboring, that all sects are forms and fragments of a single integral truth and all disciplines labor in their different ways towards one supreme experience... Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is the epitome of the whole. His was the great super-conscious life which alone can witness to the infinitude of the current that bears us all oceanwards. He is the proof of the Power behind us, and the future before us."

Namaskar

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1329 on: March 03, 2015, 01:22:58 PM »
CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI
Q: Is it good to devote some time to staying healthy? Should we do hatha yoga, for example, to keep the body in good condition?
AS: It is difficult to do sadhana if the body is not in good condition. Hatha yoga is one way of staying healthy.
Bhagavan used to say, however, that out of all the different asanas, nididhyasana is the best. He would then add that nididhyasana means abidance in the Self.
Don't pay too much attention to the body. If you worry about
the well-being of your body, you identify with it more and more.
Look on it as a useful vehicle: maintain it, fuel it properly and repair it if it breaks down, but don't become attached to it.
If you can keep your attention on the Self without being distracted by unpleasant bodily sensations, you are healthy enough to do sadhana. If you do your meditation earnestly and continuously you will begin to find that health problems will not distract you. When your abidance in the Self is firm and strong, you cease to be aware of the body and its pains.
- Living by the Words of Bhagavan
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1330 on: March 03, 2015, 06:00:50 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1331 on: March 04, 2015, 05:01:55 PM »


CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI
AS: Bhagavan once said, To correct oneself is to correct the whole world'. When one has corrected oneself completely one
finds that there is no one other than oneself to correct. One
becomes quiet and peaceful within and one spontaneously radiates
happiness to all beings.
If a powerful light is shining it need not say to the darkness 'Please go away'. In the presence of such a powerful light all
darkness immediately vanishes. Similarly, the jnani spontaneously radiates a spiritual light which automatically dispels the darkness of spiritual ignorance.
Q: Why did God make this world so imperfectly? What is the
purpose of a world in which everyone is continually suffering? Why
is there darkness for the jnani to dispel?
AS: The ultimate purpose of life is to enquire about the nature of
the Self and to stabilize firmly there.
Of all births this human birth is the most precious because in
this birth we have been given the faculty of enquiry. Through this
faculty we are able to enquire about the true nature of the Self.
This precious birth is not given to us to be wasted in sensual
pleasures. It is given to us only to know our true Self.
Saint Tayumanuvar sang in one verse:
I came to this world just to realize myself
but I forgot the purpose for which I came.
My mind became deluded
by accumulating riches and by indulging in sensual pleasures.
I was deluded, lost in this maya, searching for the transient pleasures of wealth and women.
To kill this delusion
my Guru gave me the beautiful sword of jnana.
Living by the Words of Bhagavan
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1332 on: March 05, 2015, 01:53:21 PM »
CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI

Q: How long should we stay with the Guru?

AS: Until the 'eye of wisdom' is open one needs association with sadhus who have realized the Self so that one can become aware of one's own Self. One should also study and practice the teachings of the Guru.

If you associate with bad or worldly people your meditation will be disturbed by their thought currents. It is best to avoid their company. One should not hate or dislike them, one should just stay out of their way.

Q: Should one avoid worldly things until one has attained some of mind control?

AS: As long as the body is alive it needs food clothing and shelter. It is not a hindrance to jnana to earn money to meet one?s basic needs.

Q: Some people have the freedom to give up worldly things. Others do not. They have to live and work with worldly people all the time.

AS: Before we came into this world all the incidents of our life were predestined: where we have to live, what acts we have to perform, etc. If we desire anything other than our prarabdha, that which was already destined for us, we cannot attain it. ?

All the difficulties that we experience in life have been given to us by Bhagavan in order to turn our minds towards the Self.

- Living by the Words of Bhagavan
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1333 on: March 06, 2015, 06:05:24 AM »
Friends,
I just happened to chance upon the discussions in David Godman's Blog, 'open thread' that took place in 2012.The Discussions covered a range of topics and going over it again after a gap of over 2 years was quite revealing about one thing-the discussions were quite objective and despite the participants taking diameterically opposite positions,it never got 'personal'.There was good humour and appreciation of criticism and a wealth of useful points to ponder shared among the participants-Just all that a good discussion can truly bring out.I thought it would be a good idea to post some of the discussions here ,not necessarily in the chronological order.

Here is one interesting post that one of our friends in that forum(soorya) shared and it is from the book'Living with Himalayan masters' by Swami Rama:
Real Knowledge Removes Suffering

Self-reliance is important. It comes when you start receiving experiences directly from within. No doubt you need a teacher, you need a guide-I am not telling you that you should not learn things from other people, or that you need not study books. But I have met people who did not even know the alphabet, and yet whenever we had difficulty in understanding some profound truth or scripture, they alone could give us a solution.
Once I was teaching the Brahma Sutras. It is one of the most abstruse books in Vedantic literature. Aphorisms which I myself did not really understand I explained to my students, and they seemed satisfied.But I was not. So in the evening I would go to a swami who had not actually studied scriptures. He couldn't even sign his name-yet his knowledge was unmatched. He said, "You will never understand these terse aphorisms if you do not have direct experience." Then he told me this story to help me understand the difference between direct and indirect knowledge.
A master had a student who had never seen a cow nor tasted milk. But he knew that milk was nutritious. So he wanted to find a cow, milk it, and drink the milk. He went to his master and asked him, "Do you know anything about cows?"
The master answered, "Of course." The student requested, "Please describe a cow to me." So the master described a cow: "A cow has four legs. It is a tame, docile animal, not found in the forest but in villages. Its milk is white and is very good for your health." He described the type of tail and ears it has, everything.After this description the student went in search of a cow. On the way he came across a statue of a cow.He looked and thought, 'This is surely what my master described to me.' By chance that day some people who lived nearby were
whitewashing their house and there was a bucket of whitewash near the statue. The student saw it and concluded, 'This must be that milk which they say is so good for you to drink.' He
gulped down some of the whitewash, became terribly ill, and had to be taken to a hospital. After he recovered he went back to his master and angrily charged, "You are no teacher!" His master asked, "What's the matter?" The student replied, "Your description of a cow was not at all accurate." "What happened?" He explained, and the master asked, "Did you milk the cow yourself?" "No." "That is why you suffered."
The cause of suffering among intellectuals today is not because they don't really know. They know a little. But what they know is not their own knowledge, and that is why they suffer. A little or partial knowledge is always dangerous, like partial truths. A partial truth is not truth at all. So is the case with partial knowledge. The wise directly perceive truth. The sage who did not even know the alphabet of any language would always remove my doubt. Systematic study under a self-realized and competent teacher helps in purifying the ego; otherwise scriptural
knowledge makes one egotistical. He who is called an intellectual man today only collects facts from various books and scriptures. Does he really know what he is doing? Feeding intellect with such a knowledge is like eating a food with no food-value. One who constantly eats such a food remains sick and also makes others sick. We meet many teachers and they all teach well, but a student can assimilate only that which is unalloyed and comes directly from self-experienced teachers.

In his wonderful essay on Self-reliance,Emerson says:

Quote
There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried.

How true this is!

Namaskar
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 06:21:49 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1334 on: March 06, 2015, 07:12:55 AM »
Friends,
I am copying this post of mine in the 'open thread'.I have shared the parable of Sri Ramakrishna in this forum quite a few times.Yet in the context of the discussion ,it assumes a significance.Here it is:
Parable of the "elephant God"
"Let me tell you a story. In a forest there lived a holy man who had many disciples. One day he taught them to see God in all beings and, knowing this, to bow low before them all.
A disciple went to the forest to gather wood for the sacrificial fire. Suddenly he heard an outcry: 'Get out of the way! A mad elephant is coming!' All but the disciple of the holy man took to their heels. He reasoned that the elephant was also God in another form. Then why should he run away from it? He stood still, bowed before the animal, and began to sing its praises. The mahut of the elephant was shouting: 'Run away! Run away!' But the disciple didn't move. The animal seized him with its trunk, cast him to one side, and went on its way. Hurt and bruised, the disciple lay unconscious on the ground. Hearing what had happened, his teacher and his brother disciples came to him and carried him to the hermitage. With the help of some medicine he soon regained consciousness. Someone asked him, 'You knew the elephant was coming - why didn't you leave the place?' 'But', he said, 'our teacher has told us that God Himself has taken all these forms, of animals as well as men. Therefore, thinking it was only the elephant God that was coming, I didn't run away.' At this the teacher said: 'Yes, my child, it is true that the elephant God was coming; but the mahut God forbade you to stay there. Since all are manifestations of God, why didn't you trust the mahut's words? You should have heeded the words of the mahut God.'
(Laughter)
"It is said in the scriptures that water is a form of God. But some water is fit to be used for worship, some water for washing the face, and some only for washing plates or dirty linen.
This last sort cannot be used for drinking or for a holy purpose. In like manner, God undoubtedly dwells in the hearts of all - holy and unholy, righteous and unrighteous; but a man should not have dealings with the unholy, the wicked, the impure. He must not be intimate with them. With some of them he may exchange words, but with others he shouldn't go even that far. He should keep aloof from such people."

The parable of the 'Elephant' god is a deep one.Most of our choices are like that disciple who believed in god in the elephant but was deaf to the blatant call of the Mahut god.
Apart from its humor,this truly reflects the state of mind that attaches itself to what it fancies to be true than to Truth.
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 07:14:36 AM by Ravi.N »