Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 336978 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1290 on: February 13, 2015, 12:47:16 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi/Others

One more incident illustrating the power of following the teachings of the Guru v/s worshipping the form of the Guru from an incident in Kanchi Paramacharya's Life :

I can recollect one incident of Kanchi Mahaswamigal who during his Yatras was camping at a particular town and one of his close devotees wanted to be with him all the time and stay with him close by and that devotee felt that if he did that then he may have to forgo his daily nityakarmas ( like Sandhya Vandanam , Gayathri Japa etc ) and Kanchi Paramacharya always insisted his devotees to do one's Nitya Karmas without fail even if they are sick . So he stuck to doing the Nitya Karmas eventhough he was upset that he could not have darshan of Kanchi Mahaswamigal . But one day after  finishing the evening Nitya Karmas he came out of his house and was surprised to see Kanchi Mahaswamigal standing in front of his house and he could not believe his eyes and before he could explain , Paramacharya himself said people take strain to meet him but in doing so they forgo their Nitya Karmas and people who sincerely follow his teachings ( i.e doing Nitya Karmas ) he would himself give the darshan wherever they are .

The last few deays I have been re-reading the teachings of Sringeri Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati Mahaswamigal and he keeps on hitting at this point regularly i.e if one keep's following one's Nitya Karmas sincerely , then God will himself life that person to the next level and let there be no doubt in this .
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 12:52:16 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1291 on: February 13, 2015, 12:55:06 PM »
Sri Ramana Maharshi: ~~~ Words of Grace. (Who Am I)

God and the Guru are not really different;
they are identical.

He that has earned the Grace of the Guru
shall undoubtedly be saved and never forsaken,
just as the prey that has fallen into the tiger?s jaws
will never be allowed to escape.

But the disciple, for his part,
should unswervingly follow the path shown by the Master.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1292 on: February 13, 2015, 07:24:01 PM »
With regard to whether Sadhana is needed or not ,I think the following quote of Papaji answers it i.e when the mind is not prepared ,Self Knowledge will not take place

Papaji himself says to David Godman, in Nothing Ever Happened (vol. 3, p. 359): "The power of the Self cannot work on an unreceptive mind.... Rain cannot make crops grow in a barren land.... If the mind is not free from all vasanas [selfish tendencies of desire, etc.], it will always reassert itself later.... If one who is not free from vasanas is pushed into having a direct experience [of the Self], that experience will not stay. The mind of such a person will eventually come back with all its former force."

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1293 on: February 17, 2015, 06:55:03 AM »
Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Joy of God-Consciousness
(To Captain and the other devotees) "Attribute to yourselves the bliss of God-Consciousness; then you too will experience ineffable joy. The bliss of God-Consciousness always exists in you. It is only hidden by the veiling and projecting power of maya. The less you are attached to the world, the more you love God."
CAPTAIN: "The farther you proceed toward your home in Calcutta, the farther you leave Benares behind. Again, the farther you proceed toward Benares, the farther behind you leave your home."
MASTER: "As Radha advanced toward Krishna, she could smell more and more of the sweet fragrance of His body. The nearer you approach to God, the more you feel His love. As the river approaches the ocean it increasingly feels the flow of the tides.

Ideals of jnani and bhakta
"The jnani experiences God-Consciousness within himself; it is like the upper Ganges, flowing in only one direction. To him the whole universe is illusory, like a dream; he is always established in the Reality of Self. But with the lover of God the case is different. His feeling does not flow in only one direction. He feels both the ebb-tide and the flood-tide of divine emotion. He laughs and weeps and dances and sings in the ecstasy of God. The lover of God likes to sport with Him. In the Ocean of God-Consciousness he sometimes swims, sometimes goes down, and sometimes rises to the surface-like pieces of ice in the water.(Laughter.)

Brahman and Sakti are not different
"The jnani seeks to realize Brahman. But the ideal of the bhakta is the Personal God-a God endowed with omnipotence and with the six treasures. Yet Brahman and Sakti are, in fact, not different. That which is the Blissful Mother is, again, Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute. They are like the gem and its lustre. When one speaks of the lustre of the gem, one thinks of the gem; and again, when one speaks of the gem, one refers to its lustre. One cannot conceive of the lustre of the gem without thinking of the gem, and one cannot conceive of the gem without thinking of its lustre.
"Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute is one, and one only. But It is associated with different limiting adjuncts on account of the different degrees of Its manifestation. That is why one finds various forms of God. The devotee sings, 'O my Divine Mother, Thou art all these!' Wherever you see actions, like creation, preservation, and dissolution, there is the manifestation of Sakti. Water is water whether it is calm or full of waves and bubbles. The Absolute alone is the Primordial Energy, which creates, preserves, and destroys. Thus it is the same 'Captain', whether he remains inactive or performs his worship or pays a visit to the Governor General. Only we designate him by different names at different times."

CAPTAIN: "Yes, sir, that is so."

Namaskar

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1294 on: February 18, 2015, 06:05:20 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1295 on: February 21, 2015, 12:29:08 PM »
CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI
Q: When I keep the mind on this feeling of 'I am', must I be relaxed and quiet? Should I see what is happening, without interfering, or should I be observing, scrutinizing, comparing, etc. ?
AS: It is enough if you can simply relax in this 'I am?. Whatever happens in this 'I am?, this consciousness, just be indifferent to it.
You are the consciousness itself, not the thoughts and ideas that appear in it. Many things both good and bad are going on in this world. We don't bother about most of them because we think, ?these things are happening to somebody else and not to me?.
In the same way, be the consciousness 'I am' and be indifferent to the various things that come and go in your mind. If you identify with thoughts, judge them, compare them, worry about them, try to suppress them, or get involved with them in any way, they will cause you trouble. Instead, be utterly indifferent to them. If you don't pay them any attention, they can never adversely affect you.
Living by the Words of Bhagavan
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1296 on: February 21, 2015, 12:32:59 PM »
PRACTICAL WISDOM
D.: Can advaita be realized by japa of holy names; say Rama, Krishna, etc.?
M.: Yes.
D.: Is it not a means of an inferior order?
M.: Have you been told to make japa or to discuss its order in the scheme of things?
- Talk 55
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1297 on: February 21, 2015, 03:49:29 PM »
Friends,
The birthday of Sri Ramakrishna this year was on 20th February,yesterday.The festivity and programs are being conducted in R K Mutt,chennai for 3 days until tomorrow(22nd February).
I wish to Share the essence of what his advent means to devotees and seekers of Truth.This is best captured by this Hymn to the master by Swami Vivekananda:

स्थापकाय च धर्मस्य सर्व धर्म स्वरूपिणे ।
अवतार वरिष्टाय रामकृष्णाय ते नम: ॥

To the One who came to establish Dharma, one who is the personification of all faiths and religions,
One who is the greatest embodiment of the Divine, to that Ramakrishna I offer my salutations.

Swamiji captures the essence of Sri Ramakrishna as 'sarva dharma swaroopinE'-Personification of all faiths.

Does Sri Ramakrishna himself say anything at all about this?

Here are a few excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

I have practised all the disciplines; I accept all paths. I respect the Saktas, the Vaishnavas, and also the Vedantists. Therefore people of all sects come here. And everyone of them thinks that I belong to his school. I also respect the modern Brahmajnanis.

"A man had a tub of dye. Such was its wonderful property that people could dye their clothes any colour they wanted by merely dipping them in it. A clever man said to the owner of the tub, 'Dye my cloth the colour of your dye-stuff.' (All laugh.) "Why should I be one-sided? The idea that the people of a particular sect will not come to me does not frighten me. I don't care a bit whether people come to me or not. The thought of keeping anyone under my control never crosses my mind."

Was the Master hinting that people professing different religions would come to him and have their spiritual consciousness awakened according to their own ideals?

Elsewhere in The Gospel,the master asks M:

MASTER: "Well, do you find me to be like anybody else?"
M: "No, sir."
MASTER: "Like any other paramahamsa?"
M: "No, sir. You can't be compared to anybody else."
MASTER (smiling): "Have you heard of a tree called the 'achina'?"
M: "No, sir."
MASTER: "There is a tree called by that name. But nobody knows what it is."
M: "Likewise, it is not possible to recognize you. The more a man understands you, the more uplifted he will be."

The universal aspect of this manifestation needs to be grasped in understanding his teachings as well.He advocated all paths and affirmed the efficay of all,without any qualification of one thing as superior to all explicitly or implicitly.Many believe that he advocated Japa as the practice for one and all in this kali yuga.He did say that but was it something that he advocated as 'his recommendation'.No.We will see how he will simply say 'According to this school' 'According to that school' etc,etc-He will simply say that in a matter of fact way and in this way affirm the validity and efficacy of all paths.If there was one thing he emphasized ,it was the Upanishadic path of 'thyaga'-'Na karmanana prajaya dhanEna ,thyagEnaikE amritatvamanasuh'-'Neither by work,nor by progeny,nor by wealth but through renunciation alone Immortality is attained'.The Other thing he emphasized was 'subechcha' or 'pure yearning' for the Divine and Sraddha in the Guru's words.If one has these  aspects of Thyaga , subechcha and sraddha-all the rest will follow irrespective of whatever path one follows-whether it is called 'dualistic' or otherwise.
We shall see how the Master says how he came to realize the efficacy of the Holy name in Kali Yuga.The Master was quite acquainted and aware of Srimad Bhagavatham which he had listened to when he was a young lad-yet he says that he learnt about this from a 'Sikh' monk!We shalle see the manner in which he speaks about these-in a totally impersonal yet intense manner.

continued.....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1298 on: February 21, 2015, 04:02:38 PM »
Efficacy of the Divine name in kali yuga-How Sri Ramakrishna came to know about this:

In Benares I saw a young sannyasi who belonged to the sect of Nanak.. He was the same age as you. He used to refer to me as the 'loving monk'. His sect has a monastery in Benares. I was invited there one day. I found that the mohant was like a housewife. I asked him, 'What is the way?' 'For the Kaliyuga', he said, 'the path of devotion as enjoined by Narada.' He was reading a book. When the reading was over, he recited: 'Vishnu is in water, Vishnu is on land, Vishnu is on the mountain top; the whole world is pervaded by Vishnu.' At the end he said, 'Peace! Peace! Abiding Peace!'
Path of love suited to modern times
"One day he was reading the Gita. He was so strict about his monastic rules that he would not read a holy book looking at a worldly man. So he turned his face toward me and his back on Mathur, who was also present. It was this holy man who told me of Narada's path of devotion as suited to the people of the Kaliyuga."

Sri Ramakrishna has practised all these paths and knows the efficacy of the Divine name.Yet,he does not say that 'I have found this effective and suitable for all'-He says that he learnt it from that Holy man that narada's path of devotion as suitable for kali yuga.We shall see how the master talks about the various paths always qualifying it with a 'According to'!Perfect Neutrality and equality maintained at all times with reference to all paths.
continued...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 04:06:19 PM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1299 on: February 21, 2015, 04:03:09 PM »
ANNAMALAI SWAMI ESSENTIALS
Excerpts from Living by the Words of Bhagavan


If you remain in the ?I am? as ?I am? no harm can come to you, the main thing is not go out of it.

If you take the ?I am? as your destiny no other destiny can befall you.

Abide as ?I am? and you will see no world, no mind, no distinctions and no directions.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1300 on: February 21, 2015, 04:30:30 PM »
Excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the master talks about different approaches:

According to the Vaishnavas the aspirants and the seers of God may be divided into different groups. These are the pravartaka, the sadhaka, the siddha, and the siddha of the siddha. He who has just set foot on the path may be called a pravartaka. He may be called a sadhaka who has for some time been practising spiritual disciplines, such as worship, japa, meditation, and the chanting of God's name and glories. He may be called a siddha who has known from his inner experience that God exists. An analogy is given in the Vedanta to explain this. The master of the house is asleep in a dark room. Someone is groping in the darkness to find him. He touches the couch and says, 'No, it is not he.' He touches the window and says, 'No, it is not he.' He touches the door and says, 'No, it is not he.' This is known in the Vedanta as the process of 'Neti, neti', 'Not this, not this'. At last his hand touches the master's body and he exclaims, 'Here he is!' In other words, he is now conscious of the 'existence' of the master. He has found him, but he doesn't yet know him intimately.
"There is another type, known as the siddha of the siddha, the 'supremely perfect'. It is quite a different thing when one talks to the master intimately, when one knows God very intimately through love and devotion. A siddha has undoubtedly attained God, but the 'supremely perfect' has known God very intimately.

There are two schools of thought: the Vedanta and the Purana. According to the Vedanta this world is a 'framework of illusion', that is to say, it is all illusory, like a dream. But according to the Purana, the books of devotion, God Himself has become the twenty-four cosmic principles. Worship God both within and without.
"As long as God keeps the awareness of 'I' in us, so long do sense-objects exist; and we cannot very well speak of the world as a dream. There is fire in the hearth; therefore the
rice and pulse and potatoes and the other vegetables jump about in the pot. They jump about as if to say: 'We are here! We are jumping!' This body is the pot. The mind and intelligence are the water. The objects of the senses are the rice, potatoes, and other vegetables. The 'I-consciousness' identified with the senses says, 'I am jumping about.' And Satchidananda is the fire.
"Hence the Bhakti scriptures describe this very world as a 'mansion of mirth'. Ramprasad sang in one of his songs, 'This world is a framework of illusion.' Another devotee gave the
reply, 'This very world is a mansion of mirth.' As the saying goes, 'The devotee of Kali, free while living, is full of Eternal Bliss.' The bhakta sees that He who is God has also become
maya. Again, He Himself has become the universe and all its living beings. The bhakta sees God, maya, the universe, and the living beings as one. Some devotees see everything as
Rama: it is Rama alone who has become everything. Some see everything as Radha and Krishna. To them it is Krishna alone who has become the twenty-four cosmic principles. It
is like seeing everything green through green glasses.

According to one school of thought, God cannot be seen. Who sees whom? Is God outside you, that you can see Him? One sees only oneself. Having once entered the 'black waters' of the ocean, the ship does not come back and so cannot describe what it experiences."
M: "It is true, sir. As you say, having climbed to the top of the monument, one becomes unaware of what is below: horses and carriages, men and women, houses, shops and offices, and so on."

According to one school, the gopis of Vrindavan, like Yasoda, had believed in the formless God in their previous births; but they did not derive any satisfaction from this belief. That is why later on they enjoyed so much bliss in the company of Sri Krishna in the Vrindavan episode of His life. One day Krishna said to the gopis: 'Come along. I shall show you the Abode of the Eternal. Let us go to the Jamuna for a bath.' As they dived into the water of the river, they at once saw Goloka. Next they saw the Indivisible Light. Thereupon
Yasoda exclaimed: 'O Krishna, we don't care for these things any more. We would like to see You in Your human form. I want to take You in my arms and feed You.'

"So the greatest manifestation of God is through His Incarnations. The devotee should worship and serve an Incarnation of God as long as He lives in a human body. 'At the break
of day He disappears into the secret chamber of His House.'

In the Kartabhaja sect, the teacher, while giving initiation, says to the disciple, 'Now everything depends on your mind.' According to this sect, 'He who has the right mind find
the right way and also achieves the right end.
' It was through the power of his mind that Hanuman leapt over the sea. 'I am the servant of Rama; I have repeated the holy name of Rama. Is there anything impossible for me?'-that was Hanuman's faith.
Ignorance lasts as long as one has ego. There can be no liberation so long as the ego remains. 'O God, Thou art the Doer and not I'-that is knowledge.


Does this mean that Sri Ramakrishna advocated a medley of approaches.No.He just let devotees know that all approaches are valid and efficaceous.Once Swami Vivekananda ,then a lad in his teens sharply castigated the vamachara approach(Tantrik practice wherein every 'Bhairava' will take a 'Bhairavi' as a companion)for over an hour.At the end Sri Ramakrishna remarked-"Who knows?There may be a backdoor entry to God!"
By sincerely practising any of the approaches to which one has a predeliction,one will get to the Truth-that God alone is Real and the source of all peace and auspiciousness.

This is what mahatma Gandhi said:
The story of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's life is a story of religion in practice. His life enables us to see God face to face. No one can read the story of his life without being convinced that God alone is real and that all else is an illusion. Ramakrishna was a living embodiment of godliness.
His sayings are not those of a mere learned man but they are pages from the Book of Life. They are revelations of his own experiences. In this age of scepticism, Ramakrishna presents an example of bright and living faith, which gives solace to thousand of men and women who would otherwise have remained without spiritual light. Ramakrishna's life was an object-lesson in Ahimsa. His love knew no limits, geographical or otherwise. May his divine love be an inspiration to all.

May the sadguru who dwells in the heart of all beings inspire and guide us.

Namaskar


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1301 on: February 22, 2015, 06:37:15 AM »
Nagaraj,
Quote
I would like to sincerely place a flower in your hearts of tenderness, understanding, acceptance and a hand of love
.

Your flower is gratefully accepted but not your 'sorry'. :)

Friends,

tu tu mey mey (you-you, me-me) has no place in a forum like this.A sadhaka can and must exercise his veto power never to get hurt.Others may express what they feel and think but the seeker should examine and take only what is appropriate to the discussion.If others have misunderstood him,he may explain his position and try to clarify and leave it at that.If others brand one as 'egoistic' or 'fanatic' or 'with hidden motive' ,how should it matter?If one is not 'egoistic' where is the need for self-enquiry or other spiritual practice?It is in these moments, genuine practice is called for and one gets to know where one is viz a viz spiritual practice.As such one should be thankful to others for providing free laundry service.As Sri Bhagavan used to say-'Join  others in the abuse'

There is no such a thing like 'my thread' and no one should infringe here,etc.Ofcourse discipline needs to be maintained so that other visitors to the forum may find it easy to browse and lookup things that interest them-and in this way it helps to post articles in appropriate threads.

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Evil of "I"and "mine"
"'I' and 'mine' - these constitute ignorance. 'My house', 'my wealth', 'my learning', 'my possessions' - the attitude that prompts one to say such things comes of ignorance. On the contrary, the attitude born of Knowledge is: 'O God, Thou art the Master, and all these things belong to Thee. House, family, children, attendants, friends, are Thine.'
"One should constantly remember death. Nothing will survive death. We are born into this world to perform certain duties, like the people who come from the countryside to Calcutta on business. If a visitor goes to a rich man's garden, the superintendent says to him, 'This is our garden', 'This is our lake', and so forth. But if the superintendent is dismissed for some misdeed, he can't carry away even his mango-wood chest. He sends it secretly by the gatekeeper.
(Laughter.)
"God laughs on two occasions. He laughs when the physician says to the patient's mother, 'Don't be afraid, mother; I shall certainly cure your boy.' God laughs, saying to Himself, 'I am going to take his life, and this man says he will save it!' The physician thinks he is the master, forgetting that God is the Master. God laughs again when two brothers divide their land with a string, saying to each other, 'This side is mine and that side is yours'. He laughs and says to Himself, 'The whole universe belongs to Me, but they say they own this portion or that portion.'

Namaskar.

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1302 on: February 22, 2015, 06:55:56 AM »
A Beautiful Buddhist story on how to handle the mind when it is agitated

Once Buddha was walking from one town to another town with a few of his followers. This was in the initial days. While they were traveling, they happened to pass a lake. They stopped there and Buddha told one of his disciples, ?I am thirsty. Do get me some water from that lake there.?
The disciple walked up to the lake. When he reached it, he noticed that right at that moment, a bullock cart started crossing through the lake. As a result, the water became very muddy, very turbid. The disciple thought, ?How can I give this muddy water to Buddha to drink!?
So he came back and told Buddha, ?The water in there is very muddy. I don?t think it is fit to drink.? After about half an hour, again Buddha asked the same disciple to go back to the lake and get him some water to drink. The disciple obediently went back to the lake.
This time too he found that the lake was muddy. He returned and informed Buddha about the same. After sometime, again Buddha asked the same disciple to go back. The disciple reached the lake to find the lake absolutely clean and clear with pure water in it. The mud had settled down and the water above it looked fit to be had. So he collected some water in a pot and brought it to Buddha.
Buddha looked at the water, and then he looked up at the disciple and said,? See what you did to make the water clean. You let it be?. and the mud settled down on its own ? and you got clear water. Your mind is also like that! When it is disturbed, just let it be. Give it a little time. It will settle down on its own. You don?t have to put in any effort to calm it down. It will happen. It is effortless.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1303 on: February 22, 2015, 07:51:32 AM »
Friends,
I wish to explore the nature of worshipping God with form.There have been references to vision of  'God with four hands' in anil bhai's thread recently,although that topic was never under  discussion.perhaps my reference to the Divine Mother in that thread may have elicited this response.In general,I have found that any sort of so called 'dualistic worship' is looked at askance in places where advaitic Truth is generally held aloft as supreme.The Divine mother in traditional advaitic schools is admitted as the shakti of Brahman and is indistinguishable from Brahman.Shakti may be worshipped as a form or in the form of sri chakra or a three dimensional form of mahameru.

Is there any Vedic sanction for any of these forms -especially those with multiple heads,hands and feet?or are these just fictional characters based on imagination running riot?I wish to explore this aspect of worship of form and where it leads the aspirant-Does it lead one to be caught up in a web of the mind and its imagination or does it aid one to free oneself from such a web?

Sri Ramakrishna's life and teachings are a beacon and a clear reference and vindication of the later point of view-that such a worship of form aids in freeing one from all limitations,not just that -for 99.99 percent of seekers this sort of a worship is quite necessary and advised.Even someone who may pooh-pooh 'forms' would yet like to attach himself in some beneficial manner with the external form of a 'Guru'.For instance our anil Bhai wished to contemplate the Holy form of 'sadguru Ramana' and sing praise.Truly a laudable approach and a powerful aid-why?To meditate on the Holy form of Sri Bhagavan is to meditate on the Self-A look at the Holy form of Sri Bhagavan means to drink deep the essence of what he embodies.
If that be so,we may understand the efficacy of the various forms of God and what it means to different devotees.Some may find the form of siva appealing,some that of Vishnu,some that of divine mother,and so on.For the Christians it may be the cross that reminds them of Lord Jesus;for the muslims it may be that of Kabba and so on and so forth.

Each devotee has to seize upon something close to his heart and which awakens in him the sense of widening and deepening of the consciousness-and he starts identifying this 'consciousness' with 'God'.God is not the outer image that triggers all this but it certainly pervades it as well as the worshipper.This is the power of Suggestion that is brought into play and this is the power of the symbol.The Form and formless are related and there is no contradiction in this sort of an approach.

A devotee goes to a temple and after peeping at the sanctum sanctorum closes his eyes!Why should he go all the way there only to close his eyes which he could have done sitting at home?This is the power of sannidhi or Presence-Great devotees have visited such places and the power of the presence is still alive in such places and as one feels this presence-the eyes close so that there is no more any distraction and one is left free to be onself,alone with God in the knowledge-Consciousness is God.Even if such a devotee were to see a vision of a deity with 'four hands' it does not dispossess him from this consciousness,this knowledge.It is not as if the Devotee would then only look and marvel at the 'four Hands' like a curio item in a museum and his consciousness would become fragmented.

Here is an excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Yogendra, the editor of a Bengali paper, the Bangavasi, entered the room. The conversation turned to the Personal God and God without form.
MASTER: "God has form; again, He is formless. How many aspects He has! We cannot comprehend Him. Why should we say that God is formless only?"
YOGENDRA: "That is the one amazing thing about the Brahmo Samaj. There even a boy twelve years old sees God as formless. The members of the Adi Samaj do not object very
much to God with form. They are allowed to attend ritualistic worship if it takes place in respectable families."
MASTER (smiling): "How nicely he has put it! Even a boy sees the formless God!"

The Brahmo samaj came to be established in the 19th century by people who thought that reforms are required especially in matters of worship of god with form -in the form of statues and symbols and the above reference reflects such a point of view.

The question now again is whether there is any basis for a deity with these multiple heads,multiple arms and multiple feet in the Vedas?What is the significance?
The answer is an emphatic 'Yes' and this is what Purusha suktam (Rig Vedic Hymn) is all about.This is one powerful symbolism and to those tuned to it it has the power to awaken their intuition and bless them with that sort of Experience.

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1304 on: February 22, 2015, 08:26:13 AM »
Friends,
I have cleared most of my posts in anil bhai's thread.Here is one addressed to another devotee and I thought I will leave it here for him to see as and when he gets interested.The manikkavachakar's composition is a beautiful one and is something to be cherished:

cefnbrithdir/friends,

Today I wish to take up this observation of our friend on 13th february in this thread:

Quote
Dear Sri Ravi and Sri Anil

Is not the paradox that a mental activity is the jiva path to where you (swarupa) are already  but you (jiva) must not take this mental activity as Real because you(jiva) Do not Exist ?  All your mental activity is not Real so it seems a difficulty to put reality on any particular strategm and to do so is not likely to be the best strategm ( I am not saying that Bhagavan  ever did this but I sometimes worry dear Sri Anil that you seem to come close in your mind  to doing so ).

Is not another paradox that although Reality is through "I " ( "I am "); "I " ( " I am") is not the 'end' ? Is not this "I" still Knowledge and still relative to Ignorance. "That" or "He" is often the words used for this 'beyond the I' and for beyond any relative Knowledge.  Do we not need something to at least point to what is before moola maya and what is  after ?   ( 'Before' and 'after' look completely wrong but what to say ?)

I wonder what you make of this

" The pride of the ignorant jiva is towards external things while the pride of the Knower/ gnani is within. But both are pride and both have "fallen down" because activity has not ceased. Non- activity is beyond these and there cannot be even a touch of pride there. Then the blessing of the saint has borne fruit.

Simple and wonderful observation by our friend.if the 'i' or ego sense is unreal,then any path that this 'i' traces to get rid of itself is like a line on the water.No reality can be attributed to the path.

I have mentioned how the great saint manikkavachakar has expressed it so movingly and here is that verse:

யானே பொய் என்நெஞ்சும் பொய் என் அன்பும் பொய்
ஆனால் வினையேன் அழுதால் உன்னைப் பெறலாமே
தேனே அமுதே கரும்பின் தெளிவே தித்திக்கும்
மானே அருளாய் அடியேன் உனை வந்து உறுமாறே

The Translation will be something like this(No translation can capture the beauty and immediacy of the original though!)

I myself am False,my heart too is false,and my love is also false
Yet,this embodiment of karma that is me can attain you if only I cry(for you)
Oh Honey!Oh Nectar!Oh Essence of Sugarcane!Oh sweet Lord!
Do grace this devotee to attain Thee.

This is exactly what manikkavachakar is saying:
the very 'i' is false,its heart or intent is false and its love or way of devotion is false-There is simply no basis as to how it can ever hope to attain to the Lotus feet of the Lord!The very 'i' is nothing but an accumulation of Karmic baggage-How can the Garbage or a dustbin empty itself?It is only possible if there is the helping hand in the form of Grace that can throw away all the accumulated dust and free the dustbin by emptying it.It is this Grace that manifests as the 'cry'.
What is the 'cry'?Why is it so powerful?It is because the 'cry' is a nonverbal seeking.it is DIRECT and untainted by anythought or premeditation.It is something unknown to the 'i' and cannot be rationalized in any way.It has the power to dissolve the 'i' instantaneously and give the glimpse of the Lotus Feet of the Lord.No path is involved in this.
So manikkavachakar affirms -'If only I can cry'-He does not say that he is going to cry and reach the Lord-he is saying 'if only'-that is a big 'if'!That will only come about if it is realised
that all about oneself is hollow and false.

This is why Sri Ramakrishna says:
Longing is like the rosy dawn. After the dawn out comes the sun.Longing is followed by the vision of God.
"God reveals Himself to a devotee who feels drawn to Him by the combined force of these three attractions: the attraction of worldly possessions for the worldly man, the child's attraction for its mother, and the husband's attraction for the chaste wife. If one feels drawn to Him by the combined force of these three attractions, then through it one can attain Him.
"The point is, to love God even as the mother loves her child, the chaste wife her husband, and the worldly man his wealth. Add together these three forces of love, these three powers
of attraction, and give it all to God. Then you will certainly see Him."

Sri Ramakrishna taught the devotees how to call on the Divine Mother.
Master's prayer to the Divine Mother
MASTER: "I used to pray to Her in this way: 'O Mother! O Blissful One! Reveal Thyself to me. Thou must!' Again, I would say to Her: 'O Lord of the lowly! O Lord of the universe! Surely I am not outside Thy universe. I am bereft of knowledge. I am without discipline. I have no devotion. I know nothing. Thou must be gracious and reveal Thyself to me.' "
Thus the Master taught the devotees how to pray. They were deeply touched. Tears filled Mahimacharan's eyes.

Sri Ramakrishna looked at him and sang:
Cry to your Mother Syama with a real cry, O mind!
And how can She hold Herself from you?
How can Syama stay away?..


This is the DIRECT path of Bhakti or devotion that if the demand is sincere and earnest ,the response is immediate.
Friends,tomorrow ,i.e 20th February 2015 is the jayanthi of Sri Ramakrishna.May the Blessings of the Guru be with all of us.


Namaskar.