Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 283933 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1200 on: October 11, 2014, 01:22:48 PM »
ADVAITA BODHA DEEPIKA:

Sadhana:  continues....

Disciple:  The scriptures declare that only Knowledge can do it.  How then do you say that stillness of the mind puts
an end to samsara?

Master: What is variously described as Knowledge, Liberation, etc., in the scriptures, is but stillness of mind.

Disciple:  Has anyone said so before?

Master: Sri Vasishta had said: When by practice the mind stands still, all illusions  of samsara disappear, root and branch.
Just as when the ocean of milk was churned for its nectar, it was all rough, but became still and clear, after the churn.,
(Mount Mandara) was taken out, so also the mind becoming still, the samsara falls to eternal rest.

Disciple: How can the mind be brought to stillness?

Master: By dispassion, abandoning all that is dear to oneself, one can by one's own efforts accomplish the task with ease.
Without this peace of mind, Liberation is impossible.  Only when the whole objective world is wiped out clean by a mind
disillusioned as a consequence of discerning knowledge that all that is not Brahman is objective, and unreal, the Supreme
Bliss will result.  Otherwise in the absence of peace of mind, however much an ignorant man may struggle  and creep on
in the deep abyss of the Sastras, he cannot gain Liberation.

Only that mind which by practice of yoga, having lost all its latencies, has become pure and still like a lamp in a dome well
protected from breeze, is said to be dead.  This death of mind is the highest fulfillment.  The final conclusion of all the
Vedas is that Liberation is nothing but mind stilled.

For Liberation nothing can avail, not wealth, relatives, friends, karma consisting of movements of limbs, pilgrimage to
sacred places, baths in sacred waters, life in celestial regions, austerities however severe, or anything but a still mind. In
similar strain many sacred books teach that Liberation consists in doing away with the mind.  In several passages in the
Yoga Vasishta, the same idea is repeated,, that the Bliss of Liberation can be reached only by wiping out the mind, which
is the root cause of samsara, and thus of all misery.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                       

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1201 on: October 11, 2014, 06:20:24 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1202 on: October 12, 2014, 01:02:31 PM »
ஆசாரம் என்றால் என்ன?- முக்கூர் லட்சுமி நரசிம்மாச்சாரி சொன்னவர்-இந்திரா சௌந்த்ரராஜன்.

என் தாய்மாமாவின் மிக நெருங்கிய நண்பராய் திருமுக்கூர் அவர்கள் எனக்கும் அறிமுகமாகி, ஒரு மாதகாலம் மார்கழியில் திருப்பாவையும் பாகவதமும் சொற்பொழிவாக அருளினார்.

அவரது அழுத்தமான கருத்துக்களும், சொல்லாற்றலும் பெரும் கூட்டத்தை கூட்டிவிட்டது. அந்த மார்கழி மாதத்தை வாழ்நாளில் மறக்கமுடியாது.

அவரோடு அவரது தர்மபத்தினியாரும் தங்கி இருந்தார். திருமுக்கூர் ஆசார சீலர் ஆனதால் மனைவி கையாலன்றி வெளியே உண்ணமாட்டார்.

இதுகுறித்து நான் கேட்டேன். இப்படி நடந்து கொள்வதுதான் ஆசாரமா? இதில் மற்றவர்கள் சமைப்பது எல்லாம் ஒரு மாற்றுக்குறைவு என்கிற ஒரு எண்ணம் ஒளிந்திருக்கிறதே. சுகாதாரமாக யார் சமைத்துத் தந்தாலும் சாப்பிடுவதில் தவறு இல்லைதானே?" என்று அவரிடம் கேட்டேன். இந்த கேள்விக்கு அவர் சொன்ன பதில்தான், ஆசாரம் என்றால் என்ன என்பதற்கான தெளிவை எனக்குள் ஏற்படுத்தியது.

?ஆசாரம் என்பதற்கு ஆண்டவனின் சாரம் என்றும் பொருள் கொள்ளலாம். பெரிய சாரம் - அதாவது அரிதான ஒழுகு முறை அல்லது வழி நடப்பது என்று பொருள் கொள்ளலாம்.

அப்படி நடப்பதில் நிறைய நுட்பங்கள் இருக்கின்றன. மனைவி கையால் உண்பதற்கும், பிறர் கையால் உண்பதற்கும் இடையே நீங்கள் சுகாதரத்தை அடிப்படையாக வைத்து பார்த்தீர்கள். இங்கே அதுவல்ல விஷயம். மனைவி என்பவள் கணவனின் சுகதுக்கங்களில் பங்கு உடையவள். அவர்கள் ஒருவரை ஒருவர் சார்ந்து வாழ்பவர்கள் இவர்கள் பிரிந்து வாழ்வதுதான் தவறு - பாபம்!

இப்படி கடப்பாடுடைய மனைவி கையால் உண்பதற்கும் பிறர் கையால் (அது அக்கம்பக்கம் ஹோட்டல் என்று எதுவாக வேண்டுமானால் இருக்கலாம்) சாப்பிடுவதற்கும் வேற்றுமை உள்ளது.

நம் பசியை போக்குபவர் யாராக இருந்தாலும் அவர்கள் தெய்வத்துக்கு சமம். அப்படிப்பட்டவரின் நன்றிக்கு நம் உரியவராகி விடுகிறோம். அவருக்கு நம் வாழ்நாளில் பதில் நன்றியை காட்டாவிட்டால் அது பாவம். ஆனால், அவர்களுக்கு அது புண்ணியம். சாப்பிட்டதற்கு நாம் பணம் தரலாம். அது அரிசி பருப்புக்கு சரியாக இருக்கும். அவர்கள் காட்டிய அன்புக்கு?
என்னைப் போல் ஊருக்கு ஊர் போய் கதை சொல்லும் ஒரு உபன்யாசகன், தன் வாழ்நாளில் இப்படி பல பேர் கையால் சாப்பிட நேரிட்டு அவர்களுக்கு கடமைப்பட்டவர்களாக மாறும் ஒரு அமைப்பு இதனாலே உருவாகிவிடுகிறது. ஆனால், என் போன்றவர்களின் வாழ்க்கை நோக்கமோ இப்பிறப்பில் நம்மால் முடிந்த நன்மைகளைச் செய்து, இதுபோன்ற நன்றிக்கடன்களில் சிக்கிக் கொள்ளாமல், பிறப்பை முடித்துக் கொள்ள வேண்டும் என்பதுதான்.

அதனால்தான் கடப்பாடுள்ள மனைவி மட்டும்போதும். புதுகடப்பாடுகளுக்கு ஆளாக வேண்டாம் என்று, அதை ஒரு ஆசார அனுஷ்டானமாகக் கொண்டுள்ளேன். இப்படி ஒவ்வொரு அனுஷ்டானம் பின்னாலும் ஒருவரது லௌகீக கோணத்துக்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட ஒரு பெரும்பொருள் உள்ளே இருக்கிறது. இதைத் தவறாக கருதி மலிவாகப் பொருள் கொள்ளவும் இடம் இருக்கிறது.

பிறர்கையால் உண்ணும் போது அவருக்கு நன்றிக் கடன்படுவது மட்டும் நிகழ்வதில்லை. அந்த கை வழியாக அவர்களின் குணநலன்களும் நமக்குள் புகும் வாய்ப்பும் உள்ளது. இப்படி நான் சொல்வதை அனுபவத்தால்தான் உணர முடியும்.


ஒரு சன்னியாசி ஒரு வீட்டில் சாப்பிட சென்றார். அன்று அந்த வீட்டுப் பெண்ணுக்கு உடல் நலமில்லை. எனவே பக்கத்து வீட்டுப்பெண் வந்து சமைத்து பரிமாறினாள். இறுதியாக வெள்ளிக் கிண்ணத்தில் பாயம் சாப்பிட்டார். சாப்பிட்டுவிட்டு அந்த வெள்ளிக் கிண்ணத்தை சன்னியாசியே தன்னோடு வைத்துக் கொண்டுவிட்டார்.

மறுநாள்தான் அவருக்கு அந்த தவறே புரிந்தது. முற்றும் துறந்த நான் ஒரு வெள்ளிக்கிண்ணத்தின் மேல் ஆசைப் பட்டுவிட்டேனே.. சே! என்ன ஒரு போதனை என்று அவர் குழம்பவும்தான் - அவருக்கு சமைத்துப்போட்ட பெண்மணிக்கு திருட்டு குணம் இருப்பது தெரியவந்தது. அவர் கையால் சாப்பிடப் போக அது சன்னியாசியையும் தொற்றிக் கொண்டது.


இப்படி சாப்பிடுவதற்கு பின்னால் நிறைய சங்கதிகள் உள்ளன. மேலோட்டமாக பார்த்து நம் விருப்பத்துக்கும் வசதிக்கும் கருத்து கூறக்கூடாது, என்று அவர் கூறவும் தான் எனக்கும் பல உண்மைகள் புரிந்தன.

இன்றைய வேகமான வாழ்க்கைப் போக்கும், பணம் சம்பாதிக்கும் நடைமுறைகளும் நம்மை பகுத்தறிவோடு கேள்வி கேட்க வைக்கின்றன. ஆனால், பகுத்தறிவுள்ள சூட்சமமான பதில்களும் உள்ளன என்பது ஏனோ நமக்குத் தெரிவதில்லை
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 01:04:02 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1203 on: October 12, 2014, 01:45:59 PM »
ADVAITA BODHA DEEPIKA:

Sadhana: continues...

In this way to kill the mind by a knowledge of the sacred teaching, reasoning and one's own experience, is to undo
the samsara.  How else can the miserable round of births and deaths be brought to a standstill?  And how can freedom
result from it?  Never. Unless the dreamer awakes, the dream does not come to an end nor the fright of being face to
face with a tiger in the dream. Similarly unless the mind is disillusioned,  the agency of samsara will not cease. Only
the mind must be made still. This is the fulfillment of life.

Disciple: How can the mind be made stil?

Master: Only  by Sankya.  Sankya is the process of inquiry coupled with knowledge. The realized sages declare that the mind
has its root in non inquiry and perishes by an informed inquiry. 

Disciple: Please explain this process.

Master: This consists of Sravana, Manana, Nididhyassana and Samadhi,  i.e, hearing, reasoning., meditation and blissful
peace,, as mentioned in scriptures.  Only this can make the mind still.

There is also an alternative.   It is said to be Yoga.

Disciple: What is Yoga?

Master: Meditation on Pure Being free from qualities.

Disciple: Where is this alternative mentioned and how?

Master:  In the Srimad Bhagavad Gita, Sri Bhagavan Krishna has said: What is gained by Sankhya can also be gained
by yoga.  Only he knows that the result of the two processes is the same, can be called a realized sage.

Disciple: How can the two results be identical?

Master: The final limit is the same for both because both of them end in stillness of mind.  This is samadhi or blissful peace.
The fruit of samadhi is Supreme Knowledge;  this remains the same by whichever process gained.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.             

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1204 on: October 13, 2014, 01:52:00 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

Disciple: If the fruit is the same for both, the final purpose can be served by only one of them.  Why should two processes
be mentioned instead of only one?

Master: In the world, seekers of truth are different grades of development.  Out of consideration for  them, Bhagavan
has mentioned these two in order to offer a choice.

Disciple: Who is fit for the path of inquiry?

Master: Only a fully qualified seeker is fit, for he can succeed in it, and not others.

Disciple: What are the sadhanas or requisites for this process?

Master: The knowers say that the sadhanas consist of an ability to discern the real from the unreal, no desire for
pleasures here and hereafter, cessation of activities (karma) and a keen desire to be liberated.  Not qualified  with all
these four qualities, however, hard one may try, one cannot succeed in inquiry. Therefore this fourfold sadhana is the
sine qua non for inquiry.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1205 on: October 14, 2014, 02:52:00 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

To begin with, a knowledge of the distinctive characteristics of these sadhanas, is necessary. As already pointed out,
these distinctive characteristics are of of the categories, cause, nature, effect, limit, and fruit.  These are now described:

contd., 

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1206 on: October 14, 2014, 04:36:00 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

continues...

Discernment (viveka) can arise only in a purified mind. Its 'nature' is the conviction gained by the help of sacred teachings
that only Brahman is real and all else is false. Always to remember this truth is its 'effect'. Its end (avadhi) is to be settled
unwavering in the truth that only Brahmanis and all else is unreal.  Desirelessness (Vairagya) is the result of the outlook
that the  world is essentially faulty. Its 'nature' is to renounce the world and have no desire for anything in it,. Its 'effect'
is to turn away in disgust from all enjoyments as from vomit.  It ends (avadhi) in treatment with contempt all pleasures
earthly or heavenly as if they were vomit or burning fire or hell.

Cessation of activities (uparatti) can be the outcome of the eight fold yoga (ashtanga yoga) namely, yama, niyama, assana,
pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi, i.e. self restraint, discipline, steady posture, control of breath,
control of senses, mind collected to truth, meditation and peace.  Its 'nature' consists in restraining the mind. Its 'effect'
is to cease from worldly activities. It ends (avadhi) is forgetfullness of the world as if in sleep, owing to the  ending of activities.
Desire to be liberated (mumukshutva) begins with association with realized sages. Its 'nature' is the yearning for liberation.
Its 'effect' is to stay with one's master.  It ends (avadhi) in giving up all study of Sastras, and performance of religious rites.

When these have reached their limits, as mentioned above, the Sadhanas are said  to be perfect.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.         

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1207 on: October 15, 2014, 03:57:45 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

continues....

Should only one or more of these sadhanas be perfect but not all of them, the person will after Death, gain
celestial regions.  If all of them are perfect, they together quickly make the person thoroughly capable of inquiry into
the Self.   Only when all the Sadhanas are perfect is inquiry possible. Otherwise, not.

Even if one of them remains undeveloped, it is obstructs inquiry. With this we shall deal presently.

Dispassion, etc., remaining undeveloped, discernment, though perfect, cannot itself remove the obstacles, to inquiry into
the Self.  You see how many well read in Vedanta Sastra.  They must all possess this virtue but they have not cultivated
the others, dispassion etc., Therefore, they cannot undertake inquiry into the Self.  This fact makes it plain that discernment
unattended by dispassion etc., cannot avail.

Devotee: How is it that  even scholars in Vedanta have not succeeded in the pursuit of inquiry?

Master: Though they study Vedanta and give lessons to others yet in the absence of desirelessness they do not practice
what they have learnt.

Devotee: And what do they do otherwise?

Master: Like a parrot they reproduce the Vedantic jargon but do not put the teachings into practice.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.               

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1208 on: October 16, 2014, 05:29:10 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana - continues...


Disciple: What does Vedanta teach?

Master: The Vedanta teaches a man to know that all but the non dual Brahman is laden with misery, therefore to leave all
off all desires, for enjoyment, to be free from love or hate, thoroughly to cut of of knot of ego, appearing as 'I', you, he, this,
that, mine and yours, to rid himself of the notion of I and mine, to live unconcerned with the pairs of opposites as heat
and cold, pain and pleasure, etc., to remain fixed in the perfect knowledge of the equality of all and making no distinction
of any kind, never to be aware of anything but Brahman and always to be experiencing the Bliss of the non dual Brahman.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1209 on: October 17, 2014, 02:38:09 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

continues...

Though Vedanta is read and well understood, if dispassion is not practiced, the desire for pleasures will not fade away.
There is no dislike for pleasing things and the desire for them cannot leave the person.  Because desire is not checked,
love, anger etc., the ego of the false-I in the obnoxious body, the sense of possession represented by 'I' or 'mine' of things
agreeable to the body, the pairs of opposites like pleasures and pains, and false values, will not disappear.  However, well read
one may be, unless the teachings are put into practice, one is not really learned.  Only like a parrot the man will be repeating
that Brahman alone is real and all else is false.

Devotee: Why should he be so?

Master: The knowers say that like a dog delighting in offal, this man also delights in external pleasures. Though always
busy, with Vedanta, reading and teaching it, he is no better than a mean dog.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1210 on: October 18, 2014, 02:12:50 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana - continues...

Having read all the Sastras and well grounded in them, they grow conceited that they are all knowing, accomplished and
worthy of respect;  filled with love and hate, they presume themselves respectable.  They are only pack-asses esteemed
for carrying heavy loads over long distances in difficult and tortuous ways.  They need not be considered as regards
non dual Truth.  In the same strain Vasishta has spoken much more to Rama.

Disciple: Have there been those who being well read in the Sastras have not practiced their teachings?

Master: Oh, many.  We have also read of them in the puranas.  Once there was a brahmin, Brahma Sarma by name.
He was well versed in the Vedas and Vedanta and otherwise an accomplished man too.  He would not practice what he
had learnt but would give lessons in it to others. Filled with love and hate, transgressing the code of conduct by acting
according to greed, and otherwise enjoying himself according to his own sweet will, after death, he passed to hell.
For the same reason, so many more also went the same way.

In the world we see so many learned pandits consumed by pride and malice.  No doubt a study of Vedanta makes one 
discerning. But if this is not accompanied by dispassion etc., it is useless and does not lead to inquiry/

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.         

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1211 on: October 19, 2014, 10:23:43 AM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana - continues...

Disciple: Will discernment together with dispassion meet the end?

Master: No. In the absence of cessation of activities, these two are not enough for a successful pursuit of inquiry.  In the
absence of it, there will be no desire to inquire into the Self.  How can we speak of success in it?

Disciple: What will a man with dispassion do if he does not take to inquiry into the Self?

Master:  Activities not ceasing, there is no tranquility; being desireless he dislikes all enjoyments and cannot find pleasure
in home, wealth, arts etc., so he renounces them, retires into a solitary forests and engages in severe but fruitless austerities.
The case of King Sihidvaja is an example of this.

Disciple: Then will discernment together with desire-lessness and cessation of activities achieve the end?

Master: Not without the desire to be liberated. If this desire is wanting, there will be no incentive to inquire into the Self.

Disciple: What will the man be doing then?

Master: Being desireless and peaceful, he will not make any effort but remain indifferent.

Disciple: Have there been men with these three qualities who did not take to inquire into the Self?

Master: Yes. Dispassion is implied in all austerities; the mind too remains one pointed for tapsvins.  Yet they cannot
inquire into the Self.

Disciple: What do they do then?

Master: Averse to external pursuits, with their minds concentrated, they will always remain austere in animated suspense
like that of deep sleep, but not inquire into the Self. As an instance, in point, the Ramayana says of Sarabhanga rishi               
that after all his tapasya went to heaven.

Disciple: Does not heaven form part of the fruits of inquiry?

Master: No. Inquiry must end  in Liberation, and this is freedom from repeated births and deaths, which does not
admit of transit from one region to another.  Sarabhanga's case indicates that he could not and did not inquire into
the Self.  Therefore, all the four qualifications are essential for inquiry.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.   


atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1212 on: October 22, 2014, 11:17:46 AM »
Osho's view on Diwali Celebrations

"Once a year we celebrate Diwali, the festival of lights, and light many lamps in the darkness. But our life is dry and dull; and it is just because this is so that man has had to create festivals. The birds, the beasts, the plants, the rivers, the waterfalls ? they have neither Holi nor Diwali. It is because man is sick that he is satisfied with just one Diwali. One Diwali is just a consolation. So on that day we have new clothes, the firecrackers, the lighted lamps ? and then we return to the same gloominess, the same prison, the same misery, the same anxiety.

When Holi comes, and we sing and dance, breaking all bounds and throwing off our normal codes of conduct ? on that day we throw all our morality, rules and etiquette to the winds; for one day our river flows, breaking all disciplines. But do you think that a river that flows for one day of the year is going to reach the ocean? And even this one day is only an apology for the real flowing; it is just a mockery of our real selves.

Look at nature: there existence is enjoying Holi every day and celebrating Diwali daily. In nature the colors flow afresh every day, new flowers open each morning. Even before the old leaves fall, the new buds are bursting out and the new shoots are springing up. The festival does not stop even for a moment ? it is nonstop, every moment is Diwali. Such will be the life of a religious person: he will be festive each moment. He is grateful that he is. His every breath is an expression of gratitude and benediction.

~ Osho - Book: Nowhere To Go But In, Chapter 3
?
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1213 on: October 22, 2014, 04:39:07 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana - continues.,

A simple desire to be liberated unaccompanied by the other three qualities will not be enough. By an intense desire for
liberation a man may take inquiry but if otherwise unqualified, he must fail in his attempt. His case will be like that of
a lame man wistfully yearning  for honey in a honey comb high up on tree.  He cannot reach it and must remain unhappy.
Or, the seeker must approach a master surrender to him and profit by his guidance.

Disciple: What authority is there for saying that a man not otherwise qualified but intensely desirous of liberation remains
ever unhappy?

Master: In the Suta Samhita it is said that those desirous of enjoyments and yearning for liberation are surely bitten by
the deadly serpent of samsara and therefore dazed by its poison. This is the authority.


contd.,

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1214 on: October 22, 2014, 07:04:04 PM »
The often misunderstood self-enquiry

That everything is in the mind and that the mind itself is only a passing phenomenon was continually stressed by Bhagavan.

"Who is the one behind the mind?" he would ask repeatedly. "Find that one and the mind itself will automatically disappear."

To do this one must repeatedly seek out the source of the "I" by the enquiry "Who am I?".

This process has often been misunderstood, though actually Bhagavan's teaching is quite clear. In this search one is not to seek for some transcendental "I-Absolute", but the ego itself and the point where it arises. Find this, [and] the ego automatically drops away and one then knows there is nothing but the Self.

It is like following a stream to its source through the hills, and when one has reached that point whence it arises the stream itself will no longer exist.

~ Sadhu Arunachala, A Sadhu's Reminiscences
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha