Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 269627 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #120 on: June 08, 2012, 09:01:01 PM »
Paul Brunton Meets 'M' (Master Mahasaya)-from 'A Search in Secret India'
He takes his seat on a divan and then turns his face towards mine. In that grave, sober presence I realize instantly that
there can be no light persiflage, no bandying of wit or humour, no utterance even of the harsh cynicism and dark scepticism
which overshadow my soul from time to time. His character, with its commingling of perfect faith in God and
nobility of conduct, is written in his appearance for all to see.
He addresses me in perfectly accented English. "You are welcome here."
He bids me come closer and take my seat on the same divan.He holds my hand for a few moments. I deem it expedient
to introduce myself and explain the object of my visit. When I have concluded speaking, he presses my hand again in a
kindly manner and says: " I t is a higher power which has stirred you to come to India,
and which is bringing you in contact with the holy men of our land. There is a real purpose behind that, and the future will
surely reveal it. Await it patiently."
"Will you tell me something about your master Ramakrishna?"
"Ah, now you raise a subject about which I love best to talk. It is nearly half a century since he left us, but his blessed
memory can never leave me; always it remains fresh and fragrant in my heart. I was twenty-seven when I met him and
was constantly in his society for the last five years of his life.The result was that I became a changed man; my whole
attitude towards life was reversed. Such was the strange influence of this god-man Ramakrishna. He threw a spiritual
spell upon all who visited him. He literally charmed them,fascinated them. Even materialistic persons who came to
scoff became dumb in his presence."
"But how can such persons feel reverence for spirituality- a quality in which they do not believe?" I interpose, slightly
puzzled.
The corners of Mahasaya's mouth pull up in a half smile.
He answers:"Two persons taste red pepper. One does not know its name; perhaps he has never even seen it before. The other is
well acquainted with it and recognizes it immediately. Will it not taste the same to both? Will not both of them have a burning
sensation on the tongue? In the same way, ignorance of Ramakrishna's spiritual greatness did not debar materialistic
persons from 'tasting' the radiant influence of spirituality which emanated from him."

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #121 on: June 08, 2012, 09:05:27 PM »
Paul Brunton Meets 'M' (Master Mahasaya)-from 'A Search in Secret India'
"Then he really was a spiritual superman?"
"Yes, and in my belief even more than that. Ramakrishna was a simple man, illiterate and uneducated - he was so illiterate
that he could not even sign his name, let alone write a letter. He was humble in appearance and humbler still in mode of
living, yet he commanded the allegiance of some of the best educated and most-cultured men of the time in India. They
had to bow before his tremendous spirituality which was so real that it could be felt. He taught us that pride, riches,
wealth, worldly honours, worldly position are trivialities in comparison with that spirituality, are fleeting illusions which
deceive men. Ah, those were wonderful days! Often he would pass into trances of so palpably divine a nature that we
who were gathered around him then would feel that he was a god, rather than a man. Strangely, too, he possessed the power
of inducing a similar state in his disciples by means of a single touch; in this state they could understand the deep
mysteries of God by means of direct perception. But let me tell you how he affected me.
"I had been educated along Western lines. My head was filled with intellectual pride. I had served in Calcutta colleges
as Professor of English Literature, History and Political Economy, at different times. Ramakrishna was living in the
temple of Dakshineswar, which is only a few miles up the river from Calcutta. There I found him one unforgettable spring
day and listened to his simple expression of spiritual ideas born of his own experience. I made a feeble attempt to argue with
him but soon became tongue-tied in that sacred presence, whose effect on me was too deep for words. Again and again
I visited him, unable to stay away from this poor, humble but divine person, until Ramakrishna one day humorously
remarked
:" ' A peacock was given a dose of opium at four o'clock. The next day it appeared again exactly at that hour. It was under
the spell of opium and came for another dose
.'
"That was true, symbolically speaking. I had never enjoyed such blissful experiences as when I was in the presence of
Ramakrishna, so can you wonder why I came again and again? And so I became one of his group of intimate disciples, as
distinguished from merely occasional visitors. One day the master said to me:
' " I can see from the signs of your eyes, brow and face that you are a Yogi. Do all your work then, but keep your mind on
God. Wife, children, father and mother, live with all and serve them as if they are your own. The tortoise swims about
in the waters of the lake, but her mind is fixed to where her eggs are laid on the banks. So, do all the work of the world
but keep the mind in God.
'

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #122 on: June 08, 2012, 09:11:15 PM »
Paul Brunton Meets 'M' (Master Mahasaya)-from 'A Search in Secret India'
"And so, after the passing away of our master, when most of the other disciples voluntarily renounced the world, adopted
the yellow robe, and trained themselves to spread Ramakrishna's message through India, I did not give up my profession
but carried on with my work in education. Nevertheless, such was my determination not to be of the world although
I was in it, that on some nights I would retire at dead of night to the open veranda before the Senate House and sleep among
the homeless beggars of the city, who usually collected there to spend the night. This used to make me feel, temporarily at
least, that I was a man with no possessions."Ramakrishna has gone, but as you travel through India
you will see something of the social, philanthropic, medical and educational work being done throughout the country under the
inspiration of those early disciples of his, most of whom, alas!have now passed away too. What you will not see so easily is the
number of changed hearts and changed lives primarily due to this wonderful man. For his message has been handed down
from disciple to disciple, who have spread it as widely as they could. And I have been privileged to take down many of his
sayings in Bengali; the published record has entered almost every household in Bengal, while translations have also gone
into other parts of India. So you see how Ramakrishna's influence has spread far beyond the immediate circle of his
little group of disciples."
Mahasaya finishes his long recital and relapses into silence. As I look at his face anew, I am struck by the non-Hindu colour
and cast of his face. Again I am wafted back to a little kingdom in Asia Minor, where the children of Israel find a temporary
respite from their hard fortunes. I picture Mahasaya among them as a venerable prophet speaking to his people. How
noble and dignified the man looks! His goodness, honesty, virtue, piety and sincerity are transparent. He possesses that
self-respect of a man who has lived a long life in utter obedience to the voice of conscience
.

"I wonder what Ramakrishna would say to a man who cannot live by faith alone, who must satisfy reason and intellect?" I
murmur questioningly.
"He would tell the man to pray. Prayer is a tremendous force. Ramakrishna himself prayed to God to send him
spiritually inclined people, and soon after that those who later became his disciples or devotees began to appear."
"But if one has never prayed - what then?"
"Prayer is the last resort. It is the ultimate resource left to man. Prayer will help a man where the intellect may fail."
"But if someone came to you and said that prayer did not appeal to his temperament. What counsel would you give
him?" I persist gently.
"Then let him associate frequently with truly holy men who have had real spiritual experience. Constant contact with them
will assist him to bring out his latent spirituality. Higher men turn our minds and wills towards divine objects. Above all,
they stimulate an intense longing for the spiritual life. Therefore, the society of such men is very important as the first step,
and often it is also the last, as Ramakrishna himself used to say."

Thus we discourse of things high and holy, and how man can find no peace save in the Eternal Good. Throughout the evening
different visitors make their arrival until the modest room is packed with Indians - disciples of the master Mahasaya. They
come nightly and climb the stairs of this four-storeyed house to listen intently to every word uttered by their teacher.

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #123 on: June 08, 2012, 09:16:10 PM »
And for a while I, too, join them. Night after night I come, less to hear the pious utterances of Mahasaya than to bask in the
spiritual sunshine of his presence. The atmosphere around him is tender and beautiful, gentle and loving; he has found
some inner bliss and the radiation of it seems palpable. Often I forget his words, but I cannot forget his benignant personality
.
That which drew him again and again to Ramakrishna seems to draw me to Mahasaya also, and I begin to understand how
potent must have been the influence of the teacher when the pupil exercises such a fascination upon me
.
When our last evening comes, I forget the passage of time, as I sit happily at his side upon the divan. Hour after hour has
flown by; our talk has had no interlude of silence, but at length it comes. And then the good master takes my hand and leads
me out to the terraced roof of his house where, in the vivid moonlight, I see a circling array of tall plants growing in pots
and tubs. Down below a thousand lights gleam from the houses of Calcutta.
The moon is at its full. Mahasaya points up towards itsround face and then passes into silent prayer for a brief while.
I wait patiently at his side until he finishes. He turns, raises his hand in benediction and lightly touches my head.
I bow humbly before this angelic man, unreligious though I am. After a few more moments of continued silence, he says
softly:"My task has almost come to an end. This body has nearly finished what God sent it here to do. Accept my blessing
before I go."1
He has strangely stirred me. I banish the thought of sleep and wander through many streets. When, at length, I reach a
great mosque and hear the solemn chant, "God is most great! "
break forth upon the midnight stillness, I reflect that if anyone
could free me from the intellectual scepticism to which I cling and attach me to a life of simple faith, it is undoubtedly the
master Mahasaya."

1 Note:Before long I was apprised of his death.

Concluded.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #124 on: June 09, 2012, 11:35:47 AM »
Dear Ravi,

Nice posts on Paul Brunton meeting M. Bhakti is a tremendous power to attract God. Bhakti is Jnana Mata.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #125 on: June 19, 2012, 07:34:38 AM »
Ramana/Friends,
In the Following excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,the Master clearly explains why 'kAmini'(Woman as an Object of Desire)and 'kAnchana'(Gold) bind the seeker:

VIJAY: "Sir, I wish to very much, but I am not free. I have accepted work in the Brahmo
Samaj."
Attachment to "woman" creates bondage
MASTER: "It is 'woman and gold' that binds man and robs him of his freedom. It is woman
that creates the need for gold. For woman one man becomes the slave of another, and so
loses his freedom. Then he cannot act as he likes.
Story of Govindaji's priests
"The priests in the temple of Govindaji at Jaipur were celibates at first, and at that time they
had fiery natures. Once the King of Jaipur sent for them, but they didn't obey him. They
said to the messenger, 'Ask the king to come to see us.' After consultation, the king and his
ministers arranged marriages for them. From then on the king didn't have to send for them.
They would come to him of themselves and say: 'Your Majesty, we have come with our
blessings. Here are the sacred flowers of the temple. Deign to accept them.' They came to
the palace, for now they always wanted money for one thing or another: the building of a
house, the rice-taking ceremony of their babies, or the rituals connected with the beginning
of their children's education.
Story of twelve hundred nedas
"There is the story of the twelve hundred nedas and thirteen hundred nedis. Virabhadra, the
son of Nityananda Goswami, had thirteen hundred 'shaven-headed' disciples. They attained
great spiritual powers. That alarmed their teacher. 'My disciples have acquired great
spiritual powers', thought Virabhadra. 'Whatever they say to people will come to pass.
Wherever they go they may create alarming situations; for people offending them
unwittingly will come to grief.' Thinking thus, Virabhadra one day called them to him and
said, 'See me after performing your daily devotions on the bank of the Ganges.' These
disciples had such a high spiritual nature that, while meditating, they would go into
samadhi and be unaware of the river water flowing over their heads during the flood-tide.
Then the ebb-tide would come and still they would remain absorbed in meditation.
"Now, one hundred of these disciples had anticipated what their teacher would ask of them.
Lest they should have to disobey his injunctions, they had quickly disappeared from the
place before he summoned them. So they did not go to Virabhadra with the others. The
remaining twelve hundred disciples went to the teacher after finishing their meditation.
Virabhadra said to them: 'These thirteen hundred nuns will serve you. I ask you to marry
them.' 'As you please, revered sir', they said. 'But one hundred of us have gone away.'
Thenceforth each of these twelve hundred disciples had a wife. Consequently they all lost
their spiritual power. Their austerities did not have their original fire. The company of
woman robbed them of their spirituality because it destroyed their freedom.
Degrading effect of serving others
(To Vijay) "You yourself perceive how far you have gone down by being a servant of
others. Again, one finds that people with many university degrees, scholars with their vast
English education, accept service under their English masters and are daily trampled under
their boots. The one cause of all this is woman. They have married and set up a 'gay fair'
with their wives and children. Now they cannot go back, much as they would like to. Hence
all these insults and humiliations, all this suffering from slavery.
"Once a man realizes God through intense dispassion, he is no longer attached to woman.
Even if he must lead the life of a householder, he is free from fear of and attachment to
woman. Suppose there are two magnets, one big and the other small. Which one will attract
the iron? The big one, of course. God is the big magnet. Compared to Him, woman is a
small one. What can 'woman' do?"
Worshipping woman as Divine Mother
A DEVOTEE: "Sir, shall we hate women then?"
MASTER: "He who has realized God does not look upon a woman with the eye of lust; so
he is not afraid of her. He perceives clearly that women are but so many aspects of the
Divine Mother. He worships them all as the Mother Herself
.
(To Vijay) "Come here now and then. I like to see you very much."
VIJAY: "I have to do my various duties in the Brahmo Samaj; that is why I can't always
come here. But I shall visit you whenever I find it possible."

Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #126 on: June 19, 2012, 05:09:31 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi :
“Attachment to "woman" creates bondage
MASTER: "It is 'woman and gold' that binds man and robs him of his freedom. It is woman
that creates the need for gold.”

Dear Sri Ravi,

This is a very nice post. But I have a genuine problem here. Sexual instincts have been planted by the Divine in humans as well as in other animals for the purpose of recreation. Therefore, if it is true (and there is no doubt about that) that ‘woman and gold’ binds man, so also it must be true that ‘man and gold’ binds woman. I mean to submit only this that the difficulty a man faces vis-à-vis woman, in spiritual practices, must have also been faced by woman vis-à-vis man.
Kindly elaborate.

Thanks very much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #127 on: June 20, 2012, 08:25:24 AM »
Anil,
"I mean to submit only this that the difficulty a man faces vis-à-vis woman, in spiritual practices, must have also been faced by woman vis-à-vis man."
This is a subject that needs to be taken up in greater depth.It cannot be based on our idea of 'Gender Equality' that our modern mind would like to prefer.We need to get into the realm of Dharma and this is a vast subject and something that has evolved over a period of time.
To tell you the answer in brief:
1.Man is easily turned on,whereas a woman takes time to get to the point of sexual arousal;Man is looking for immediate Gratification whereas woman is looking for depth of relationship and long term commitment.
2.Man's urge is immediate and he is not saddled with any responsibility by Nature;Woman's response is necessarily delayed because she has to bear the consequences of carrying the baby as ordained by nature(It is another matter that 'civilization' has invented means of contraception).
Keeping these basic differences,sages of sanatana Dharma have recommended different modes of development for men and women-Whereas they have recommended Brahmacharya for the boys before marriage,no such thing is enjoined upon the woman;for a Girl getting married to a boy who has graduated from Brahmacharya ashrama itself is considered Brahmacharya!The onus thus rests on the Boy!He needs to be careful and not consider the wife as a 'kAmini'! ,although it is indeed a compromise of a sort to indulge in just a 'pleasure' trip and such a thing is not barred.
I will cover more on this a little later.

Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #128 on: June 20, 2012, 09:32:01 AM »
Quote from Sri Ravi
“Keeping these basic differences,sages of sanatana Dharma have recommended different modes of development for men and women-Whereas they have recommended Brahmacharya for the boys before marriage,no such thing is enjoined upon the woman;”


Dear Sri Ravi,

Ji. Yes. I am aware of the psych-biological differences between men and women and also of the fact that there must be different modes of spiritual development for them. However, I just felt that since there is no difference in the Self, but so long as difference persists, woman must also face the same distraction in spiritual practice, may be in a lesser degree, but distraction she may also have to face and overcome.
Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
 Anil


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #129 on: July 14, 2012, 09:59:49 AM »
Ramana/Friends,
I am posting this episode from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the Master visits the house of two widowed sisters.This is quite like Jesus visiting Martha and Mary.It also gives us a feel of how people would have been drawn to the son of God(avatara)

Visit to the Brahmani's house
The Master arrived at the house of the brahmin lady who was grief-stricken on account of
her daughter's death. It was an old brick house. Entering the house, the Master passed the
cowshed on his left. He and the devotees went to the roof, where they took seats. People
were standing there in rows. Others were seated. They were all eager to get a glimpse of Sri
Ramakrishna.
The brahmani had a sister; both of them were widows. Their brothers also lived in the
house with their families. The brahmani had been busy all day making arrangements to
receive Sri Ramakrishna. While the Master was at Nanda Bose's house she had been
extremely restless, going out of the house every few minutes to see if he was coming. He
had promised to come to her place from Nanda's. Because of his delay she had thought
perhaps he would not come at all.
Sri Ramakrishna was seated on a carpet. M., Narayan, Jogin, Devendra, and others were
seated on a mat. A few minutes later the Younger Naren and some other devotees arrived.
The brahmani's sister came to the Master and saluted him. She said, "Sister has just gone to
Nanda Bose's house to inquire the reason for your delay in coming here. She will return
presently."
A sound was heard downstairs and she exclaimed, "There she comes!" She went down. But
it was not the brahmani.
Sri Ramakrishna sat there smiling, surrounded by devotees.
M. (to Devendra): "What a grand sight! All these people-young and old, men and women standing
in lines, eager to have a glimpse of him and hear his words."
DEVENDRA (to the Master): "M. says that this place is better than Nanda's. The devotion
of these people is amazing."
Sri Ramakrishna laughed.
The brahmani's sister exclaimed, "Here comes sister!"

Brahmani's indescribable joy

The brahmani came and saluted the Master. She was beside herself with joy. She did not
know what to say. In a half-choked voice she said: "This joy is too much for me. Perhaps I
shall die of it. Tell me, friends, how shall I be able to live? I did not feel such a thrill even
when Chandi, my daughter, used to visit the house accompanied by liveried footmen, with
armed guards lining both sides of the street. Oh! Now I have no trace of my grief at her
death. I was afraid he would not come. Then I thought that, if that happened, I should throw
into the Ganges all the things I had arranged for his reception and entertainment. I should
not speak to him any more. If he visited a place, I should go there, look at him from a
distance, and then come away.
"Let me go and tell everybody how happy I am. Let me go and tell Yogin of my good
luck."
Still overwhelmed with joy she said: "A labourer won a hundred thousand rupees in a
lottery. The moment he heard the news he died of joy. Yes, he really and truly died. I am
afraid the same thing is going to happen to me. Please bless me, friends, or else I shall
certainly die."
M. was amazed to see the brahmani's sincere joy and her ecstatic mood. He was about to
take the dust of her feet.
"What are you doing?" she exclaimed and saluted M.
The brahmani was extremely happy at the sight of the devotees. She said: "I am so happy to
see you all here. I have brought the younger Naren; without him, who would there be to
make us laugh?"
She was talking like this when her sister came up and said: "Come down, sister! How can I
manage things if you stay here? Can I do it all by myself?"

But the brahmani was overwhelmed with joy. She could not take her eyes from the Master
and the devotees.

continued...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 10:21:42 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #130 on: July 14, 2012, 10:04:49 AM »
After a while she very respectfully took Sri Ramakrishna to another room and offered him
sweets and other refreshments. The devotees were entertained on the roof.
It was about eight o'clock in the evening. Sri Ramakrishna was ready to leave. When he
came to the door, the brahmani asked her sister-in-law to salute the Master. Next, one of
her brothers took the dust of the Master's feet. Referring to him, she said: "He is one of my
brothers. He is a fool" "No, no!" said the Master. "They are all good." A man showed the
way with a light. At places it was dark. Sri Ramakrishna stood in front of the cow-shed.
The devotees gathered around him. M. saluted the Master, who was about to go to the
house of Ganu's mother.

Master's visit to Ganu's mother

Sri Ramakrishna was seated in the drawing-room of Ganu's mother's house. It was on the
Street floor. The room was used by a concert party. Several young men played on their
instruments now and then for the pleasure of the Master.
It was eight-thirty in the evening. Moonlight flooded the streets, the houses, and the sky. It
was the first day after the full moon.
The brahmani, who had also come, was visiting the drawing-room and the inner apartments
alternately. Every few minutes she would come to the door of the drawing-room and look at
the Master. Some youngsters from the neighbourhood also looked at him through the
windows. The people of the locality, young and old, came thronging to see the saint.
The younger Naren saw the boys in the street climbing the windows. He said to them:
"Why are you here? Get away! Go home!" The Master said tenderly, "Let them stay."
Every now and then he chanted: "Hari Om! Hari Om!"
The floor of the drawing-room was covered with a carpet. The young musicians sat on it
and sang:
O Kesava, bestow Thy grace
Upon Thy luckless servants here!
O Kesava, who dost delight
To roam Vrindavan's glades and groves! . . .
He praises the music.
MASTER: "Ah, how sweet the music is! How melodious the violin is! How good the
accompaniments are! (Pointing to a boy) He and the flutist seem to be a nice pair."
The orchestra went on playing. After it was over, Sri Ramakrishna said joyfully, "It is very
fine indeed." Pointing to a young man, he said, "He seems to know how to play every
instrument." He said to M., "They are all good people."
After the concert the young musician said to the devotees, "We should like to hear some of
you sing." The brahmani stood near the door. She said: "None of them knows how to sing.
Perhaps Mohin Babu can sing. But he will not sing before the Master."
A YOUNG MAN: "Why? I can sing even before my father."
THE YOUNGER NAREN (laughing): "But he has not yet advanced that far."
All laughed. A few minutes later the brahmani said to Sri Ramakrishna, "Please come
inside."
MASTER: "Why?"
BRAHMANI: "The refreshments are served there. Please come."
MASTER: "Why not bring them here?"
BRAHMANI: "Ganu's mother requests you to bless the room with the dust of your feet.
Then the room will be turned into Benares, and anyone dying in it will have no trouble
hereafter."

Sri Ramakrishna went inside accompanied by the brahmani and the young men of the
family. The devotees were strolling outside in the moonlight. M. and Binode were pacing
the street south of the house and recalling the various incidents in the life of their beloved
Master.
Sri Ramakrishna had returned to Balaram's house. He was resting in the small room to the
west of the drawing-room. It was quite late, almost a quarter to eleven.
Sri Ramakrishna said to Jogin, "Please rub my feet gently." M. was sitting near by. While
Jogin was rubbing his feet the Master said suddenly: "I feel hungry. I shall eat some farina
pudding."
The brahmani had accompanied the Master and the devotees to Balaram's house. Her
brother knew how to play the drums. Sri Ramakrishna said, "It will serve our purpose to
send for her brother when Narendra or some other singer wants to sing."
Sri Ramakrishna ate a little pudding. Jogin and the other devotees left the room. M. was
stroking the Master's feet. They talked together.
MASTER (referring to the brahmani and her relatives): "Ah! How happy they were!"


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #131 on: July 14, 2012, 10:12:35 AM »
Martha and Mary
M: "How amazing! A similar thing happened with two women at the time of Jesus. They
too were sisters, and devoted to Christ. Martha and Mary."
MASTER (eagerly); "Tell me the story."
M: "Jesus Christ, like you, went to their house with His devotees. At the sight of Him one
of the sisters was filled with ecstatic happiness. It reminds me of a song about Gauranga:
'My two eyes sank in the sea of Gora's heavenly beauty
And did not come back to me again;
Down went my mind, as well, forgetting how to swim'.

"The other sister, all by herself, was arranging the food to entertain Jesus. She complained
to the Master, saying: 'Lord, please judge for Yourself-how wrong my sister is! She is
sitting in Your room and I am doing all these things by myself.' Jesus said: 'Your sister
indeed' is blessed. She has developed the only thing needful in human life: love of God.
"
MASTER: "Well, after seeing all this, What do you feel?"

Master about himself

M: "I feel that Christ, Chaitanyadeva, and yourself-all three are one and the same. It is the
same Person that has become all these three.
"
MASTER: "Yes, yes! One! One! It is indeed one. Don't you see that it is He alone who
dwells here in this way.
"
As he said this, Sri Ramakrishna pointed with his finger to his own body.
M: "You explained clearly, the other day, how God incarnates Himself on earth."
MASTER: "Tell me what I said."
M: "You told us to imagine a field extending to the horizon and beyond. It extends without
any obstruction; but we cannot see it on account of a wall in front of us. In that wall there is
a round hole. Through the hole we see a part of that infinite field."
MASTER: "Tell me what that hole is."
M: "You are that hole. Through you can be seen everything-that Infinite Meadow without
any end."
Sri Ramakrishna was very much pleased. Patting M.'s back, he said: "I see you have
understood that. That's fine!"
M: "It is indeed difficult to understand that. One cannot quite grasp how God, Perfect
Brahman that He is, can dwell in that small body."

The Master quoted from a song:
"Oh, no one at all has found out who He is;
Like a madman from door to door He roams,
Like a poor beggar He roams from door to door."

Master and Jesus

M: "You also told us about Jesus."
MASTER: "What did I say?"
M: "You went into samadhi at the sight of Jesus Christ's picture in Jadu Mallick's garden
house. You saw Jesus come down from the picture and merge in your body."
Sri Ramakrishna was silent a few moments. Then he said to M.: "Perhaps there is a
meaning in what has happened to my throat [referring to the sore in his throat]. This has
happened lest I should make myself light before all
; lest I should go to all sorts of places
and sing and dance."


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #132 on: July 22, 2012, 06:11:35 AM »
Ramana,
This is in response to your view that Vedas or the Vedic age was 'dualistic',etc,etc.My quick response to this is that 'Dualism','Nondualism' or 'Qualified Nondualism' are just ideas and nothing more!There is TRUTH that has to be realized.This is the central theme,if one may say.

"Ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti" (The truth is One, the wise speak of it in different ways)-This is from the most ancient Rig Veda.

"The Vedas, and especially the primordial work known as the Rigveda,represent not merely the dawn of culture, but also its zenith. Indian
thought is seen at its highest in the Rigveda."

This verse is the key to understanding sanatana Dharma and the Vedas.Why is it said that 'vipraha bahuda vadanti'?It is the wise who describe it multiple ways!The Ignorant cannot describe,they can only speculate!
It is quite clear that all the Great ones,spoke about the ONE TRUTH ,'EKAM SAT',only the Description is manifold and adapted to meet the diverse needs of homo-sapiens in varied Roles and Stages of Maturity.
More in my next instalment here.


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #133 on: July 22, 2012, 04:03:25 PM »
Ramana,
"Behavior and actions are important, not just words and recitation of Scriptures"
Why should we think that they are not related?Here is a very important aspect of the Vedas in that although they express ideas,they are primarily seed sounds and have to be chanted with a particular intonation and accent.Only then the chanting becomes effective.This is not like the recitation of some poetry or quotation.
These sounds were not created but heard by the Rishis as Sruti.This is the Science of Mantra and the Vedas are a Rich source of Mantras.The Vedas cannot be studied like the Bible or Koran or the Dhammapada,for in book form it never existed .Nor is it the Creation or revelation of any one person or a few persons.
They are truly impersonal ,and discovered by a great many sages over the millenia.
We will begin here and I will quote what The Sage of Kanchi(you alluded to a 'Sankara' like teacher in modern times and the Sage of Kanchi comes in that lineage and is widely acknowledged by one and all ,as a jnAni par excellence in modern times)has said regarding all the questions and doubts raised by you.

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #134 on: July 22, 2012, 04:14:08 PM »
Ramana/friends,
Here is an excerpt from the Talks of The Sage of Kanchi:

The Vedas - the Root of All

Our religion consists of two major divisions, Saivism and Vaisnavism. The
doubt arises as to whether we are speaking here of two separate faiths or
of a single one.

Christianity too has two major divisions but people belonging to both
conduct worship in the name of the same God. In Buddhism we have the
Hinayana and Mahayana streams but they do not make two separate
faiths since both are based on the teachings of the same founder, the
Buddha.
Do Saivas and Vaisnavas worship the same god? No. However it be with
ordinary Vaisnavas, their acaryas or teachers never go anywhere near a
Siva temple. Their god is Visnu, never Siva. In the opinion of the
worshippers of Visnu, Siva is also one of his (Visnu's) devotees. There are
extremists among Saivas also according to whom Visnu is not a god but a
devotee of Siva. How then can the two groups be said to belong to the
same religion?
Are they to be regarded as belonging to the same faith by virtue of their
having a common scripture? The divisions [sects] of Christianity have one
common scripture, the Bible; so too is the Qur'an the common holy book
for all divisions of Islam. Is such the case with Saivas and Vaisnavas?
Saivas have the Tirumurai as their religious text, while Vaisnavas have the
Nalayira-Divyaprabandham as their sacred work. For Saivas and Vaisnavas
thus the deities as well as the scriptures are different. How it be claimed
that both belong to the same religion?


So are we one religion or are we divided into Two faiths? The belief that
Saivas and Vaisnavas have separate deities and religious works does not
represent the truth. Though the present outlook of the two groups
suggests that they represent different faiths, the truth will be revealed if
we examine their prime scriptures. The saints who composed the
Tirumurai of the Saivas and the Nalayira-Divyaprabandham of the
Vaisnavas never claimed that these works of theirs were the prime
religious texts of respective sects. Nor did they regard themselves as
founders of any religion. Vaisnavism existed before the Azhvars and so
too there was Saivism before the Nayanmars.
The original scripture of both sects is constituted by the Vedas. Saivas
describe Isvara thus:
Vedamodarangamayinanai
Vedanathan, Vedagitan, aranan kan
Similarly, the Vaisnava texts proclaim, "Vedam Tamizh seytaMaran
Sathakopan. "If we pay close attention to their utterances, we will
discover that the Vedas are the prime scripture of both sects. The
Tevaram and the Nalayaira-Divyaprabandham are of the utmost
importance to them (to the Saivas and Vaisnavas respectively); but the
Vedas are the basis of both. The great saint-poets who composed the
Saiva and Vaisnava hymns sing the glories of the Vedas throughout.
Whenever they describe a temple, they go into raptures, saying, "Here
the air is filled with the sound of the Vedas and pervaded with the smoke
of the sacrificial fire. Here the six Angas of the Vedas flourish. " In the
songs of these saints in either tradition, veneration of the Vedas finds as much place as
devotion to the Lord.
The Vedas reveal the One Truth to us in the form of many deities. The
worship of each of these divine beings is like a ghat on the river called the
Vedas.
Sekkizhar says the same thing: "Veda neri tazhaittonga mihu
Saivatturai vilanga. "(Tamil quote)

continued....