Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 315672 times)

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1185 on: September 30, 2014, 01:14:13 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

continues....

Disciple: How?

Master: As soon as the power lying dormant shows forth as mind, the latencies of the mind sprout forth, and grow up
like trees which together form the universe.  The mind sports with its latencies.  They rise up as thoughts and materialize
as the universe, which is thus only a dream vision.  The Jivas and Isvara being its contents are as illusory as this day dream.

Disciple: Please explain their illusory character.

Master: The world is an object and seen as the result of the sport of mind.  The Jivas and Isvara are contained in it.  Parts
can be only as real as the whole.  Suppose the universe is painted in colors on a wall.  The Jivas and Isvara will be figures
in the painting.  The figure can be only as real as the painting itself. 

Here the universe is itself a product of the mind and Isvara and the Jivas form parts of the same product.  Therefore, they
must be only mental projections and nothing more.  This is clear from the Sruti which says that Maya gave rise to the
illusions of Isvara and the Jivas, and from the Vasishta Smrti where Vasishta  says that as if by magic the latencies dance
about in mind as, he_I-you-this-that my son - property etc.,

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.
         

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1186 on: October 01, 2014, 03:37:23 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Devotee: Where does this smriti speak of Isvara, Jiva and Jagat?

Master: In its statement Sohamidam, i.e He-I-this, 'He means the unseen Isvara. 'I' means the Jiva parading as the ego,
the doer etc.; 'this' means all the objective universe. From the scriptures, reasoning and experience, sruti yukti and anubhava,
it is clear that the Jiva, Isvara and Jagat are only mental projections.

Devotee: How do reasoning, and experience support this view?

Master: With the rise of mind in waking and dream, the latencies come into play, and the Jiva,Isvara and Jagat
appear. With the subsidence of the latencies in deep sleep, swoon etc., they all disappear.  This is within the experience
of every one.,

Again when all the latencies are rooted out by knowledge, the Jivas, Isvara, and the Jagat disappear once for all.
This is within the experience of perfectly clear sighted great sages established in the non dual Reality, beyond the Jivas,
Isvara, and Jagat.  Therefore we say that these are all projections of the mind.  Thus is explained the effect of Maya.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.

         

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1187 on: October 02, 2014, 11:37:07 AM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:


Disciple: What is the limit of Maya?

Master: It is the knowledge resulting from an inquiry into the sense of the Mahavakya.  Because Maya is Ignorance, and
Ignorance subsists on non inquiry.  When non inquiry gives place to inquiry, right knowledge results and puts an end to
Ignorance that is Maya.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1188 on: October 03, 2014, 01:56:54 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Now listen. Ailments in the body are the results of past karma;  they subsist on wrong diet and increase with its continuation.
Or, the ignorance of rope, so long as it is not inquired into, projects a snake into view and other hallucinations follow in its
wake.   In the same manner, although Maya is self-evident, beginningless and spontaneous, yet it subsists in the absence
of inquiry into the nature of the Self, manifests the universe etc., and grows more massive.

With the rise of inquiry, Maya hitherto grown strong by its absence, loses its nourishment and gradually withers away with
all its effects, namely the Jagat etc., Just as in the absence of inquiry, the ignorance factor of rope made it look a snake but
suddenly disappeared with the rise of inquiry, so also Maya flourishes in ignorance and disappears with the rise of inquiry.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.               

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1189 on: October 04, 2014, 01:18:43 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Just as the rope and snake and the power which produces this illusion persist before inquiry, but after inquiry end in simple rope,
so also Maya and its effects, the Jagat, persist before inquiry but end in pure Brahman afterwards.

Disciple: How can a single thing appear in  two different ways?

Master:  Brahman, non dual, Pure Being, presents itself as the Jagat before inquiry, and shows itself in its True form after inquiry.

 See how before proper consideration clay appears a pot and afterwards as clay only;  or gold appears as ornaments and then
is found to be only gold.  Similarly with Brahman too.  After inquiry Brahman is realized to be unitary, non dual, impartite,
and unchanged in the past present and future.  In It there is nothing like Maya, or its effect, such as the Jagat. This
realization is known as the Supreme Knowledge and the limit of Ignorance.  Thus is described the 'limit' of Maya.

Disciple: What is the 'fruit' of Maya?

Master: That is fruitlessly vanishes into nothing, is its fruit. A hare's horn is mere sound having no significance.  So it is with
Maya, mere sound without any meaning.  Realized sages have found it so.

Disciple: Then why do not all agree on this point?

Master: The ignorant believe it to be real.  Those who are thoughtful will say it is indescribable. Realized Sages say that it
is non existent like the hare's horn.  It thus appears in these three ways.  People will speak of it from their own points of view.

Disciple: How can Maya be compared to a mother burnt down to ashes by her daughter?

Master: In the process of inquiry, Maya becomes more and more transparent and turns into Knowledge.  Knowledge is thus
born of Maya, and is therefore said to be the daughter of Maya. Maya so long flourishing on non inquiry comes to its last
days, on inquiry.  Just as a crab brings forth its young only to die itself, so also in the last days of inquiry Maya brings forth
Knowledge for its own undoing.  Immediately the daughter, Knowledge, burns down her to ashes.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.               

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1190 on: October 05, 2014, 11:24:31 AM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

continues....

Disciple: How can the progeny kill the parent?

Master: In a bamboo forest, the bamboos move in the wind, rub against one another and produce fire which burns down
the parent trees.   So also Knowledge born of Maya burns Maya to ashes.  Maya remains only in name like a hare's horn.
Therefore the sages declare it non existent.  Moreover, the very name implies its unreality.  The names are Avidya and Maya.
Of these the former means 'Ignorance or that which is not. ;  again 'Maya is that which is not'. yaa maa saa maayaa.   Therefore
it is simple negation.  Thus that it fruitlessly vanishes into nothing is its fruit. 

Disciple:  Master, Maya turns into Knowledge.  Therefore it cannot be said to vanish fruitlessly as nothing.

Master: Only if the Knowledge, the modified Maya, be real, Maya can be said to be real.  But this Knowledge itself is false.
Therefore, Maya is false.

Disciple: How is Knowledge said to be false?

Master: The fire in the friction of the trees burns them down and then dies out; the clearing nut carries down the impurities
of water and itself settles down with them. Similarly this Knowledge destroys Ignorance and itself perishes. Since it is also
finally resolved, the fruit of Maya can be only unreal.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1191 on: October 05, 2014, 02:11:13 PM »
Pollachi Dr. N. Mahalingam - Founder and Chairman of Sakthi Group of Companies, Coimbatore.

Dr. Mahalingam was born on 21st March 1923.  He passed away on 2nd October 2014.  More than an industrialist
he was known for his expertise in teachings and philosophy of VaLLalaar Ramalinga Swamigal.  He was also running
a magazine called Sakthi.  He had sponsored printing and publishing of  many books, Canons of VaLLalaar (called six tirumurais) and
also the work of Tirumoolar called Tirumandiram.  He was a vegetarian throughout his life as recommended by VaLLalaar.

atmavichar of our Forum has read the life and books of VaLLalaar and I am sure he is going to post some salient features
of VaLLalaar Ramalinga Swamigal.  Swamigal's famous quote is Arut Perum Jyothi, Thanip peRum karunai.  Arut Perum
Jyothi, Thanip Perum KaruNai.

Arunachala Siva.       

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2265
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1192 on: October 06, 2014, 07:48:51 AM »
Dear Surbramaniam Sir

Thanks for writing about the demise of Arutselvar Sri N Mahalingam .  A great noble soul who inspite of being a great Industrialist was always simple and very spiritual at heart . Though he respected all saints , he was very keen on 2 great saints - one Ramalinga Swamigal and second Mahatma Gandhi and he published the complete works of both these saints in subsidized forms . One of my keen interest on Saint Ramalinga Swamigal was due to reading articles of Vallalar and Arutpa in his spiritual magazine Sakthi . Sri N Mahalingam used to  conduct Gandhi Vallar Festival every year for 10 days starting /concluding on 2nd October . No wonder Sri N Mahalingam passed away on 2nd October on Gandhi Jayanthi day while participating in the Gandhi Vallar  function . What else proof you need to know that the divinity that you are foucssedd day in and out in your heart will absorb you at the most auspicious day /time at the time of death . In recent times we saw how Smt Kanakammal merged with Bhagavan Ramana on 1 Jan 2010 on his Jayanti day at the Ashram .

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1193 on: October 06, 2014, 01:31:38 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

continues...

Disciple: Should Knowledge also vanish in the end, how can samsara, the effects of Ignorance, be eradicated?

Master: Samsara, the effect of Ignorance, is unreal, like Knowledge. One unreality can be undone by another unreality.

Disciple: How  can it be done?

Master: A dream subject's hunger is satisfied by dream food.  The one is unreal as the other and yet serves the purpose.
Similarly, though Knowledge is unreal, yet it serves the purpose. Bondage and Release are only false ideas of Ignorance.
As the appearance and disappearance of rope snake are equally false, so are also bondage and release in Brahman.

To conclude, the Supreme Truth is only the non dual Brahman. All else is false and does not exist at any time.
The Sruti supports it saying, "Nothing is created or destroyed; there is no bondage or deliverance; no one is bound;
or desirous of release.  There is no aspirant, no practiser and no one liberated.  This is the Supreme Truth."   
Removal of superimposition thus consists in knowledge of non dual Brahman,  Pure Being,  beyond Maya and its effects.
Its realization is Liberation while in the body - Jivan Mukti.

Only a careful student of this chapter can be desirous of knowing the process of inquiry into the Self as a means of undoing
the superimposition of ignorance.  The seeker fit for such inquiry must possess the fourfold qualities which will be dealt with
next.

A competent seeker must carefully study these two chapters before proceeding further.

Chapter II - Aropa - concluded.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.           

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4050
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1194 on: October 07, 2014, 06:13:52 AM »
Friends,
I have found some of Sadhu Om's comments dogmatic and do not reflect the whole Truth,particularly his saying on Sri Ramakrishna.In fact Sri Ramakrishna has said the very opposite of what sadhu Om has claimed that he said!

Quote
Someone whose mind is thus attached to  any name or form will not be able to understand even intellectually what self attention actually is.  Even if he can enjoy the company of the name and form of his beloved God, how does that help him? Ramakrishna said that even if God wants to take us to the self, he  cannot unless we want him to.  Only by our own liking and effort to practice self attention can we attain self attention  and true self knowledge (atma jnana)

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

1. 'I am He', 'I am the Pure Self'-that is the conclusion of the jnanis. But the bhaktas say,'The whole universe is the glory of God.' Who would recognize a wealthy man without his power and riches? But it is quite different when God Himself, gratified by the aspirant's devotion, says to him, 'You are the same as Myself.' Suppose a king is seated in his court, and his cook enters the hall, sits on the throne, and says, 'O King, you and I are the same!' People will certainly call him a madman. But suppose one day the king, pleased with the cook's service, says to him: 'Come, sit beside me. There is nothing wrong in that. There is no difference between you and me.' Then, if the cook sits on the throne with the king, there is no harm in it. It is not good for ordinary people to say, 'I am He'. The waves belong to the water. Does the water belong to the waves?
Result of yoga through bhakti
"The upshot of the whole thing is that, no matter what path you follow, yoga is impossible unless the mind becomes quiet. The mind of a yogi is under his control; he is not under the control of his mind. When the mind is quiet the prana stops functioning. Then one gets kumbhaka. One may have the same kumbhaka through bhaktiyoga as well; the prana stops functioning through love of God too. In the kirtan the musician sings, 'Nitai amar mata hati!' Repeating this, he goes into a spiritual mood and cannot sing the whole sentence. He simply sings, 'Hati! Hati' When the mood deepens he sings only, 'Ha! Ha!' Thus his prana stops through ecstasy, and kumbhaka follows.

2.Attitude of jnanis and bhaktas
"He who is called Brahman by the jnanis is known as Atman by the yogis and as Bhagavan by the bhaktas. The same brahmin is called priest, when worshipping in the temple, and
cook, when preparing a meal in the kitchen.
The jnani sticking to the path of knowledge, always reasons about the Reality, saying, 'Not this, not this'. Brahman is neither 'this' nor 'that'; It is neither the universe nor its living beings. Reasoning in this way, the mind becomes steady. Then it disappears and the aspirant goes into samadhi. This is the knowledge of Brahman. It is the unwavering conviction of the jnani that Brahman alone is real and the world illusory. All these names and forms are illusory, like a dream. What Brahman is cannot be described. One cannot even say that Brahman is a Person. This is the opinion of the jnanis, the followers of Vedanta philosophy.
"But the bhaktas accept all the states of consciousness. They take the waking state to be real also. They don't think the world to be illusory, like a dream. They say that the universe is a manifestation of God's power and glory. God has created all these - sky, stars, moon, sun, mountains, ocean, men, animals. They constitute His glory. He is within us, in our hearts.
Again, He is outside. The most advanced devotees say that He Himself has become all this - the twenty-four cosmic principles, the universe, and all living beings. The devotee of God wants to eat sugar, not to become sugar. (All laugh.)
"Do you know how a lover of God feels? His attitude is: 'O God, Thou are the Master, and I am Thy servant. Thou art the Mother, and I am Thy child.' Or again: 'Thou art my Father
and Mother. Thou art the Whole, and I am a part.' He doesn't like to say, 'I am Brahman.'
Attitude of yogis
"The yogi seeks to realize the Paramatman, the Supreme Soul. His ideal is the union of the embodied soul and the Supreme Soul. He withdraws his mind from sense-objects and tries
to concentrate it on the Paramatman. Therefore, during the first stage of his spiritual discipline, he retires into solitude and with undivided attention practises meditation in a
fixed posture.
"But the Reality is one and the same. The difference is only in name. He who is Brahman is verily Atman, and again, He is the Bhagavan. He is Brahman to the followers of the path of
knowledge, Paramatman to the yogis, and Bhagavan to the lovers of God.
"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time and again Sri Ramakrishna has emphasized the efficay of dualistic form of worship -how that spontaneously leads to the quietening and absorption of the mind into God or Source or Brahman or paramatman.All great sages have likewise affirmed this fundamental truth and we may also affirm the same through our practice as well.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4050
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1195 on: October 07, 2014, 06:20:03 AM »
Friends,
Here is another excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

(To M.) "That is why I have been telling you not to reason any more. I came from the pine grove to say that to you. Through too much reasoning your spiritual life will be injured; you will at last become like Hazra. I used to roam at night in the streets, all alone, and cry to the Divine Mother, 'O Mother, blight with Thy thunderbolt my desire to reason!' Tell me that you won't reason any more."
M: "Yes, sir. I won't reason any more."
MASTER: "Everything can be achieved through bhakti alone. Those who want the Knowledge of Brahman will certainly achieve that also by following the trail of bhakti. "Can a man blessed with the grace of God ever lack Knowledge? At Kamarpukur I have seen grain-dealers measuring paddy. As one heap is measured away another heap is pushed forward to be measured. The Mother supplies the devotees with the 'heap' of Knowledge.
.................

The bhakta wants to realize the Personal God endowed with form and talk to Him. He seldom seeks the Knowledge of Brahman. But God, who does everything at His pleasure, can make His devotee the heir to His infinite glories if it pleases Him. He gives His devotee both the Love of God and the Knowledge of Brahman. If one is able somehow to reach Calcutta, one can see the Maidan and the museum and other places too. The thing is how to reach Calcutta.
By realizing the Divine Mother of the Universe, you will get Knowledge as well as Devotion. You will get both. In bhava samadhi you will see the form of God, and in nirvikalpa samadhi you will realize Brahman, the Absolute Existence-Knowledge-Bliss. In nirvikalpa samadhi ego, name, and form do not exist.

The Gospel abounds in such passages as above.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1196 on: October 07, 2014, 05:14:54 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

To the question 'How can there be samsara for the Supreme Self of Being Knowledge Bliss?' the sages answer,
'When unmanifest, the power of Self is called Maya, and when when manifest, the same is mind.  This mode of
Maya, the inscrutable mind, is the sprout of samsara for the self.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1197 on: October 08, 2014, 01:41:26 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

continues....

Disciple: Who has said that the mind is indescribable.

Master:  Vasishta has said to Rama.  In the non dual Consciousness, the bhava which, different from knowledge that is real,
and different from insentience that is unreal, tending to create, project the latencies as this thing and that thing, mixes
together the conscious and unconscious and makes them appear under categories 'the sentient' and 'the insentient',
itself of the nature of both sentient and insentient;  always vacillating and changeful is mind. Therefore, it is indescribable.

Though itself unchanging, the Supreme Self associated with the wrongly superimposed mind, appears to be changeful.

Disciple: How is that?

Master: Juste as a Brahmin, who is drunk, behaves strangely when in the power of liquors, so too  the Self though
unchanged by nature, associated now with the mind, appears changed as the Jiva wallowing in this samsara.  Hence, the
Self's samsara is not other than mind.  The Srutis say so.

Mind being the samsara, must be investigated.  Associated with mind which according to its modes assumes the shapes of
objects, the man seems to undergo the same changes.  This eternal secret is disclosed in the Maitryiniya Upanishad. This
also is confirmed by our experience and by positive and negative induction.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.,     

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1198 on: October 09, 2014, 02:12:39 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

continues.....

Disciple: How is it confirmed by our experience?

Master: When in deep sleep, the mind lies quiescent, the Self remains without change and without samsara.  When in dream
and waking, the mind manifests, the Self seems changed and caught up in the samsara.  Everyone knows it by experience
It is evident from Sruti, Smriti, logic, and experience that this samsara  is nothing but mind itself.  How can anyone dispute
this point which is so obvious?

Devotee:  How does association with the mind entangle the Self in samsara?

Master: Mind whose nature is always to be thinking of this and that, functions in the two modes -- the 'I' mode and 'this' mode,
as already mentioned in Chapter I on Superimposition.  Of these two, the I-mode has always the single concept 'I', whereas
this mode varies according to t he quality operating at the time, Sattva, Rajas, or Tamas i.e. clearness, activity or dullness.

Disciple: Who has said so before?

Master: Sri Vidyaranyaswami has said that the mind has these qualities, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and changes accordingly.
In Sattva, dispassion, peace, beneficence, etc., manifest. In Rajas, desire, anger, greed, fear, efforts, etc., manifest.
In Tamas, sloth confusion, dullness etc.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45323
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1199 on: October 10, 2014, 01:30:44 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Sadhana:

continues....

Unchanged Pure Knowledge by nature, the Supreme Self when associated with the mind changing according to the
operative qualities, becomes identified with it.

Disciple:  How can that  be?

Master:  You see how water is of itself cold and tasteless.  Yet by association, it can be hot, sweet, bitter, sour etc., Similarly,
the Self, by nature Being Knowledge Bliss, when associated with the I-mode, appears as the ego.  Just as cold water in union
with heat becomes hot, so also the Blissful Self in union with the 'I'-mode becomes the misery laden ego.  Just as water,
originally tasteless, becomes sweet or sour according to its associations, so also the Self of Pure Knowledge appears
dispassionate, peaceful, beneficent, or passionate, angry, greedy, or dull and indolent, according to the quality of this-mode
at the moment.

The Sruti says that the Self associated with prana, etc., appears respectively as prana, anger, dispassion, etc.,

Accordingly associated with the mind, the Self seems changed to Jiva, sunk in the misery of endless samsara, being deluded
by innumerable illusions, like I, you, it, mine, yours etc.,

Disciple: Now that samsara has fallen to the lot of the Self, how can it be got rid of?

Master: With complete stillness of mind, samsara will disappear root and branch. Otherwise there will be no end to samsara,
even in millions of eons (Kalpakoti Kala)

Disciple: Cannot samsara be got rid of by any means other than making the mind still?

Master:  Absolutely by no other means; neither the Vedas, nor the sastras, nor austerities, nor karma, nor vows, nor gifts
nor by recital of scriptures of mystic formulas (mantras), nor worship, nor anything else, can undo the samsara. Only
stillness of mind can accomplish the end and nothing else.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.