Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 284179 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1170 on: September 21, 2014, 02:59:12 PM »
Talk 33.
A visitor: 'The Supreme Spirit (Brahman) is Real. The world (jagat) is illusion',- is the stock phrase of Sri Sankaracharya. Yet others say, 'The world is reality'. Which is true?
M.: Both statements are true. They refer to different stages of development and are spoken from different points of view. The aspirant (abhyasi) starts with the definition, that which is real exists always; then he eliminates the world as unreal because it is changing. It cannot be real; 'not this, not this!'- The seeker ultimately reaches the Self and there finds unity as the prevailing note. Then, that which was originally rejected as being unreal is found to be a part of the unity. Being absorbed in the Reality, the world also is Real. There is only being in Self-Realisation, and nothing but being.

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 03:11:58 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1171 on: September 21, 2014, 03:04:07 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
NEIGHBOUR: "Then why should one call the world maya?"
God and the world
MASTER: "As long as one has not realized God, one should renounce the world, following the process of 'Neti, neti.' But he who has attained God knows that it is God who has become all this. Then he sees that God, maya, living beings, and the universe form one whole. God includes the universe and its living beings. Suppose you have separated the shell, flesh, and seeds of a bel-fruit and someone asks you the weight of the fruit. Will you leave aside the shell and the seeds, and weigh only the flesh? Not at all. To know the real weight of the fruit, you must weigh the whole of it-the shell, the flesh, and the seeds. Only then can you tell its real weight. The shell may be likened to the universe, and the seeds to living beings. While one is engaged in discrimination one says to oneself that the universe and the living beings are non-Self and unsubstantial. At that time one thinks of the flesh alone as the substance, and the shell and seeds as unsubstantial. But after discrimination is over, one feels that all three parts of the fruit together form a unity. Then one further realizes that the stuff that has produced the flesh of the fruit has also produced the shell and seeds. To know the real nature of the bel-fruit one must know all three.
"It is the process of evolution and involution. The world, after its dissolution, remains involved in God; and God, at the time of creation, evolves as the world. Butter goes with buttermilk, and buttermilk goes with butter. If there is a thing called buttermilk, then butter also exists; and if there is a thing called butter, then buttermilk also exists. If the Self exists, then the non-Self must also exist.
"The phenomenal world belongs to that very Reality to which the Absolute belongs; again, the Absolute belongs to that very Reality to which the phenomenal world belongs. He who is realized as God has also become the universe and its living beings. One who knows the Truth knows that it is He alone who has become father and mother, child and neighbour, man and animal, good and bad, holy and unholy, and so forth."

« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 03:56:52 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1172 on: September 21, 2014, 03:09:21 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
M: "Is the world unreal?"
MASTER: "Why should it be unreal? What you are asking is a matter for philosophical discussion.
"In the beginning, when a man reasons following the Vedantic method of 'Not this, not this', he realizes that Brahman is not the living beings, not the universe, not the twenty-four cosmic principles. All these things become like dreams to him. Then comes the affirmation of what has been denied, and he feels that God Himself has become the universe and all living beings.
Suppose you are climbing to the roof by the stairs. As long as you are aware of the roof, you are also aware of the stairs. He who is aware of the high is also aware of the low. But after reaching the roof you realize that the stairs are made of the same materials-brick, lime,
and brick-dust-as the roof
.
Further, I have given the illustration of the bel-fruit. Both changeability and unchangeability belong to one and the same Reality.
The ego cannot be done away with. As long as 'I-consciousness' exists, living beings and the universe must also exist. After realizing God, one sees that, it is He Himself who has become the universe and the living beings. But one cannot realize this by mere reasoning.



Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1173 on: September 21, 2014, 03:48:32 PM »
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Later in the afternoon several Marwari devotees entered the Master's room, where Rakhal and M. also were seated.
A MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Sir, what is the way?"

Two ways of God-realization
MASTER: "There are two ways. One is the path of discrimination, the other is that of love. Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and the unreal. God alone is the real and permanent Substance; all else is illusory and impermanent. The magician alone is real; his magic is illusory. This is discrimination.
"Discrimination and renunciation. Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and the unreal. Renunciation means to have dispassion for the things of the world. One cannot acquire them all of a sudden. They must be practised every day. One should renounce 'woman and gold' mentally at first. Then, by the will of God, one can renounce it both mentally and outwardly. It is impossible to ask the people of Calcutta to renounce all for the sake of God. One has to tell them to renounce mentally.
Constant practice urged
"Through the discipline of constant practice one is able to give up attachment to 'woman and gold'. That is what the Gita says. By practice one acquires uncommon power of mind. Then one doesn't find it difficult to subdue the sense-organs and to bring anger, lust, and the like under control. Such a man behaves like a tortoise, which, once it has tucked in its limbs, never puts them out. You cannot make the tortoise put its limbs out again, though you chop it to pieces with an axe."
MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Revered sir, you just mentioned two paths. What is the other path?"
MASTER: "The path of bhakti, or zealous love of God. Weep for God in solitude, with a restless soul, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Cry to your Mother Syama with a real cry, O mind! And how can She hold Herself from you? "
MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Sir, what is the meaning of the worship of the Personal God? And what is the meaning of God without form or attribute?"
MASTER: "As you recall your father by his photograph, so likewise the worship of the image reveals in a flash the nature of Reality. Do you know what God with form is like? Like bubbles rising on an expanse of water, various divine forms are seen to rise out of the Great akasa of Consciousness. The Incarnation of God is one of these forms. The Primal Energy sports, as it were, through the activities of a Divine Incarnation.
What is there in mere scholarship? God can be attained by crying to Him with a longing heart. There is no need to know many things.
He who is an acharya has to know different things. One needs a sword and shield to kill others; but to kill oneself, a needle or a nail-knife suffices.
One ultimately discovers God by trying to know who this 'I' is. Is this 'I' the flesh, the bones, the blood, or the marrow? Is it the mind or the buddhi? Analysing thus, you realize at last that you are none of these. This is called the process of 'Neti, neti', 'Not this, not this'. One can neither comprehend nor touch the Atman. It is without qualities or attributes.
But, according to the path of devotion, God has attributes. To a devotee Krishna is Spirit, His Abode is Spirit, and everything about Him is Spirit.
The Marwari devotees saluted the Master and took their leave.
At the approach of evening Sri Ramakrishna went out to look at the sacred river. The lamp was lighted in his room. The Master chanted the hallowed name of the Divine Mother and meditated on Her. Then the evening worship began in the various temples. The sound of gongs, floating on the air, mingled with the murmuring voice of the river. Peace and blessedness reigned everywhere.


Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1174 on: September 22, 2014, 12:01:32 PM »
ADVAITA BODHA DEEPIKA:

Devotee:  How does the story (previous post) illustrate the point?

Master:  The child of the legend is the ignorant man of the world.  The wet nurse is the scripture which speaks
of the creation by Isvara.  The barren mother's son is the Isvara born of Maya.  His three bodies are the three
qualities of Maya. His assumption of the bodies is the aspect of Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra.  In the yellow body
Brahma is the thread running through the whole universe, creates it, in the Ether of Consciousness which
corresponds to mid air in the fable. Its name is Absolute Unreality.  The fourteen royal roads are the fourteen
worlds.  The pleasure gardens are the forests.  The mansions are the mountain rangers.  The two lamps are
the Sun and the Moon and the luxurious tanks adorned with strings of pearls are the oceans into which many
rivers flow.

The houses built on the high and middle and low ground, are the bodies of the celestials, men and animals.  The three
white pillars are the skeletons of bones.  And the plaster on the walls is the skin.  The black top is the head and the five
lamps are the five senses and the phantom watchman is the Ego.

Now Isvara, the king who is the son of the barren mother Maya, having built the houses of bodies, enters into them
at will as the Jivas, sports in the company of the phantom ego and moves about aimlessly. 

With the black body he functions as Vishnu otherwise Virat, and sustains the universe.  With the white body as Rudra
the Destroyer, in the in-dweller in all, he withdraws the whole universe into himself. This is his sport and he is
pleased with it.  This pleasure is said to be the king's refreshing himself, in the waters of mirage.  His pride is of his
sovereignty.  The blossom from the sky are the attributes, omniscience  and omnipotence.  The anklets are heaven
and hell.  The four strings of glass lustre are the four stages of Mukti - Saaloka, Saamipyaa, Saarupa, and Sayujya,
meaning equality in rank, condition or power and final identity.  The king's expected arrival to present the gifts is
the image worship -- which fulfills the prayers of the devotees.

In this manner, the ignorant student of the scriptures is deluded by his Ignorance into believing the world to be real.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.;                 
               

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1175 on: September 23, 2014, 01:46:55 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Devotee: Should heaven and hell and the four stages of beatitude (Mukti) be all false, why should a part of the
scriptures prescribe method of gaining heaven or beatitude?

Master: On seeing her child suffer from pain in the stomach, a fond mother desirous of administering  pepper to the child,
but aware of the child's dislike of pepper, and love of honey, gently coaxes the child with a smear of honey before forcing
the pepper into its mouth.  In the same way, the scriptures in their mercy, seeing the ignorant student suffer in the world,
desirous of making him realize the truth, but knowing his love for the world and dislike of the non dual Reality, --- which is
subtle and hard to understand, gently coaxes him with the sweet pleasures of heaven, etc., before laying bare the non dual
Reality. 

Devotee: How can the ideas of heaven, etc., lead him on to the non dual Reality?

Master: By right actions, heaven is gained; by austerities and devotion to Vishnu, the four stages of beatitude.  On knowing
it a man practices what he likes among these. By repeated practices, in several re-births, his mind becomes pure and turns
away from sense enjoyments, to receive the highest teaching of the non dual Reality.

Devotee: Master, admitting heaven and hell etc., to be false how can Isvara, so often mentioned by the scriptures, be also
declared unreal?

Master: Well, passages dealing with Isvara in all His glory, are succeeded by others which say that Isvara is the product
of Maya, and the Jiva of Ignorance, avidya.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva               

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1176 on: September 23, 2014, 02:12:32 PM »
Anil/Friends,
I had referred to Sri Ramakrishna getting onto the seat set aside for Sri Chaitanya and his subsequent meeting with the Saint Sri Bhagavan Das Babaji who criticized this act on the master's part.Here is that absorbing story:
"The vaishnava community at colootola,Calcutta had organised a Harisabha service(Divine reading,chantings,etc) and had invited sri Ramakrishna;when the Master arrived,someone was reading the Bhagavatha,and others were listening attentively.The master joined the audience and listened to the reading.
The members of the Harisabha considered themselves to be ardent followers of Chaitanya.to remember this constantly,they had put an asana(seat)on the altar and envisioned chaitanya's presence there.They performed their worship,reading,and other congregational functions in front of the seat,which had been decorated with flowers and garlands.The reader was reading with devotion,with the bhavana of reciting the glory of Hari(Lord Sri Krishna)to chaitanya himself;and the devotees were drunk with the nectar of the Lord's words while in chaitanya's divine presence.
Listening to the nectar-like words of the Bhagavatha,the master became overwhelmed and suddenly ran towards Sri chaitanya's seat.He stood upon it and went into deep samadhi.As they beheld the master's wonderful and sweet smile,luminous face,and raised arms with fingers held up as seen in the common images of chaitanya,the prominent devotees were convinced that the master had become completely identified with chaitanya in Bhavamukha.The reader stopped and looked at the master in wonder.No one could say anything positive or negative(about the master standing on Chaitanya's seat-Ravi).As they experienced indescribable bliss,all felt as if they had been carried away to an unknown realm by the powerful spiritual current caused by the master.
"(seeing the master in samadhi in chaitanya's seat)At first they were nonplussed but then were compelled by that indescribable phenomenon to burst forth loudly with "Haribol!" and to begin singing kirtan.
While discussing the nature of samadhi earlier,we pointed out that when the mind goes into samadhi while experiencing the infinite divine mood connected with a particular name of god,it returns to the external world by means of the same name.We(Swami Saradananda-a direct disciple of Thakur)witnessed this phenomenon daily while living with the master.The same thing happened here.When the master heard the name of hari sung in kirtan,he regained outer consciousness ,joined the kirtan party and began to dance gracefully in ecstasy,at times becoming calm and motionless in samadhi as he experienced overflowing spiritual emotion.The master's participation enhanced the enthusiasm of the audience a hundred fold and they became wild in kirtan.Who could then judge whether it was right or wrong for the master to occupy chaitanya's seat?After a long time spent in ecstatic dancing and singing the glories of Hari and chaitanya,the crowd ended that day's exalted performance amid joyous shouts of the lord's name.After a while the Master returned to Dakshineswar.
When the exalted spiritual emotion ended,the members of the Harisabha,influenced by their previous nature and habits,began to criticize the master's behaviour.One group was in favour of the master's occupying Sri Chaitanya's seat while in bhavamukha;the other group vehemently opposed it.
News reached sri Bhagavandas babaji that Sri Chaitanya's seat was desecrated by a stranger named Ramakrishna.He was so enraged that he did not hesitate to bitterly reproach the master and call him a hypocrite.When the members of the harisabha visited him,Babaji scolded them for having allowed the sacrilegious act to take place in front of them.He instructed them to take all precautionary measures so that no one could do this in future.But the person who was the target of this commotion knew nothing of it all.

continued....
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 02:16:31 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1177 on: September 23, 2014, 02:23:26 PM »
Sri Ramakrishna meeting with Sri Bhagavan Das Babaji continued....
Somedays after the incident,the Master went to Kalna of his own accord with Hriday and Mathur(s-in-law of rani rasmani who built the Kali temple-ravi).After their boat arrived at the kalna ghat in the morning,Mathur busied himself finding food and lodging for the party.Meanwhile,the master went to see the town with Hriday;after obtaining bhagavandas Babaji's address,they visited his ashrama.
Whenever the childlike Master(What a child!-ravi)visited someone he did not,he always felt an indescribable fear and bashfulness at first.We noticed this trait quite often(This is what makes it most attractive and accessible!-What the Great saint Andal describes as 'mAmAyan' referring to Lord Sri Krishna-the Great bewitcher!-ravi)He had the same reaction when he visited Babaji.Asking Hriday to go on ahead,he covered himself from head to foot with a piece of cloth and then entered the ashrama behind Hriday.Hriday reached Babaji and after bowing down to him,said:"My uncle loses himself in the name of God.He's been doing it for a long time now.He has come to pay a visit to you."
Before Hriday could speak these words,he heard Babaji say,"it seems to me some great soul has come to the ashrama."After this,babaji looked around and found no newcomer except Hriday.He then continued talking to the visitors before him about a certain Vaishnava sadhu who had done something wrong and what action should be taken against him.Babaji exclaimed indignantly that he would personally confiscate the sadhu's rosary and expel him from the Vaishnava community.At that moment the Master arrived,and after bowing to Babaji he humbly joined the visitors seated there.As his body was wrapped in a cloth,no one could see his face clearly.When the Master sat dow,Hriday introduced him to Babaji as described above.Babaji then broke off his denunciation of the erring sadhu,saluted the master,and asked politely where he and Hriday had come from.
Hriday noticed that Babaji was telling his beads when he was not speaking,so he asked:"Sir,why do you tell your beads,now that you have attained enlightenment?you no longer need to."
Babaji first expressed his humility and then said:"It is true that I do not need to practise such disciplines for myself.But I must tell my beads to set an example for others.It is extremely important.Otherwise they might go astray in trying to imitate me."
Like achild,the Master always depended solely on the Divine Mother in every respect. It pained him to see or hear anyone speaking or acting out of egotism.He would use the word "I" very seldom when speaking as a servant of God;but other than those few instances he could not utter that word as we do.Those who knew the Master even for a short while were amazed and moved by his wonderful nature.And when they saw how annoyed the Master became when someone expressed his ego by saying "I shall do it," they wondered what wrong the person had done to irritate the Master so.
The First thing the master heard when he came to bhagavandas was that he would confiscate a sadhu's rosary and expel him from the community.A little later,he heard that it was in order to teach others that babaji had continued telling his beads and wearing marks on his body(the white/red chalk like marks that a vaishnava puts on his face and body-ravi).Thus when Babaji repeatedly said,"I will expel that sadhu;i will teach people;I have not given up telling my beads and wearing marks," the simple-hearted Master could suppress his annoyance no more.He could no longer remain seated like a courteous and gentle guest.He rose to his feet,demanding:"Is that how you think of yourself even now?you think youteach people?you think you will expel this man from your community?you think you can decide to give up telling your beads or not?who made you a teacher?Do you think you can teach the world unless the Lord who made it allows you to?"The master's cloth had fallen from his shoulders to the ground as had the cloth from around his loins.A wonderful radiance shone from his face.He was in such ecstasy that he was not aware of what he was saying and to whom he was speaking.After those few words he became overwhelmed with emotion and went into samadhi.
To this point everyone had shown love and respect for the perfected Babaji,and no one had been capable of protesting his words or pointing out his shortcomings-or bold enough to do so.The Master's conduct surprised him at first.Under such circumstances ordinary human beings would become angry and try to take revenge,but babaji did not react that way.The simplicity that had developed in him from his austerities helped him to realize the true meaning of Sri Ramakrishna's words.He sincerely believed that there was no doer other than God in this world.Those powerful words of the Master awakened Babaji's insight intensely,and he recognized his own shortcomings and became humble and modest.Moreover,the extraordinary manifestation of a spiritual mood(bhava-ravi)in Sri Ramakrishna convinced babaji that the master was not an ordinary person.Babaji was moved by Sri Ramakrishna's repeated ecstasies and overflowing bliss during the subsequent discussion.Further more,he saw in Sri Ramakrishna the vivid manifestation of mahabhava that he had been struggling to understand for a long time by studying the scriptures,so he felt a deep love and respect for the Master.When he heard that this was the paramahamsa of Dakshineswar who out of ecstasy had occupied Sri Chaitanya's seat at the Harisabha at colootola,there was no limit to his sorrow and repentance for the bitter reproaches he had used against the Master.He bowed down to Sri Ramakrishna and asked for his forgiveness.Thus,the spiritual meeting between the Master and Bhagavandas Babaji ended that day.

Sri Ramakrishna Leelamrita-Swami Saradananda(Swami Saradananda known as Sarat Maharaj was a direct disciple of the Master-Ravi)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1178 on: September 24, 2014, 01:52:34 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Devotee: Why do the scriptures contradict themselves with passages of different imports?

Master:  Their aim is to make the student purify his mind by his own efforts such as good actions, austerities, and devotion.
To coax him, these are said to yield him pleasures. Being themselves insentient, these cannot of their own accord  yield
fruits.  So an all powerful Isvara is said to dispense the fruits of actions.  That is how Isvara appears on the scene. Later
the scriptures say that the Jiva, Isvara and the Jagrat (the world) are all equally false.

Isvara is the product of illusion is no more real than the dream subject, the product of sleep. He is in the same category
as the Jiva, the product of ignorance, or of the dream subject, the product of sleep.

Devotee: The scriptures say that Isvara is the product of Maya and how can we say that He is of Ignorance?

Master: Ignorance of the Self may function singly or totally as we speak of single trees or a whole forest.  The total Ignorance
of all the universe is called Maya,  Its product Isvara functions as Virat in the universal waking state; as Hiranyagarbha in the
universal dream state, and as the In-dweller in the universal deep sleep state. He is omniscient and omnipotent. Beginning
with the Will to create and ending with the entry into all creatures, this is His samsara. The individual ignorance is said to be
simply ignorance.  Its product the Jiva functions respectively ass Visva, Taijasa, and Prajna in the individual waking, dream
and deep sleep states.  His knowledge and capacity are limited. He is said to be the doer and enjoyer. His samsara consists
of all that lies between the present wakeful activities and final Liberation.  In this way, the scriptures have made it clear that
Isvara, the Jiva and the Jagrat (world) are all illusory

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1179 on: September 25, 2014, 12:31:01 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Disciple:  Now, master, just as the ignorance of the rope can give rise to the illusion only of a snake, so one's
ignorance may spread the illusion of oneself being a Jiva. But how can it be extended to create the illusions of
Isvara and Jagat as well?

Master: Ignorance has no parts. It acts as a whole and produces all there illusions at the same time.  The Jiva
manifesting in the waking and dream states, Isvara, and Jagat also manifest.  As the Jiva is resolved, the others
are also resolved. This is proved by our experience of the waking and dream manifestations. And their disappearance
in deep sleep,  swoons, death and samadhi.

Moreover, simultaneous with the final annihilation of Jivahood by knowing the others also are finally annihilated along     
with all its attendant illusions and who are aware only as the Self, directly experience the non dual Reality.  Hence it is
clear that the Ignorance of the Self is the root cause of all the three illusions - Jagat, Jiva, and Isvara.

Disciple: Masteer, should Isvara be the illusion of Ignorance, He must manifest as such. Instead He appears as the origin
of the universe and our creator.  It does not look reasonable to say that Isvara and the Jagat are both illusory products.
Instead of appearing as our creation, He appears as our creator. Is it not contradictory?

Master: No., In dreams the dreamer sees his father who long ago was dead. Though the father is created by himself
as an illusion of dream, the dreamer feels that the other is the father and himself the son, and that he has inherited the
father's property which again is his own creation.  Now look how the dreamer creates individuals and things relates himself
to them and thinks that they were before and he came after.  So also with the Isvara, the Jagat, and the Jiva.  This is
only the trick of Maya who can make impossible possible.

Disciple: How is Maya so powerful?

Master: No wonder. See how an ordinary magician can make a whole audience see a celestial city in mid air or how
you can yourself create a wonderful world of your own in your dreams.  If such is possible for individuals with mean
powers, how can the other not be possible for Maya, which is the universal material cause?  To conclude, all these including
Isvara, Jagat and Jiva are illusory appearances resulting from one's ignorance and superimposed on the One Reality,
the Self.

This leads us to consider the ways of removing the superimposition. 

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.     

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1180 on: September 25, 2014, 02:28:05 PM »
Osho on Response  v/s Reaction

"Watch, become alert, observe, and go on dropping all the reactive patterns in you. Each moment try to respond to the reality - not according to the ready-made idea in you but according to the reality as it is there outside. Respond to the reality! Respond with your total consciousness but not with your mind.

And then when you respond spontaneously and you don't react, action is born. Action is beautiful, reaction is ugly. Only a man of awareness acts, the man of unawareness REACTS. Action liberates.

Reaction goes on creating the same chains, goes on making them thicker and harder and stronger.

Live a life of response and not of reaction." ~ Osho
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1181 on: September 26, 2014, 02:45:39 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Part II - Apavada - the removal of superimposition:

Devotee:  Master, Ignorance is said to have no beginning; it follows that it will have no end. How can the beginningless
Ignorance be dispelled?  Being the ocean of mercy you can please tell me this.

Master: My child; you are intelligent and can understand subtle things.  You have said it right.  Truly Ignorance has no
beginning but it has an end.  It is said that the rise of knowledge is the end of Ignorance.  Just as the sunrise dispels
the darkness of night so also the light of knowledge dispels the darkness of Ignorance.

To avoid confusion, everything in the world can be considered by analyzing its individual characteristics under the
categories: cause, nature, effect, limit and fruit.  But the transcendental Reality being  non dual is beyond all these
whereas all else, from Maya on wards, being wrongly seen on It, are all subjects to the above analysis.

Of these, Maya has no antecedent cause because it is not the product of anything preceding it. But remains in Brahman,
self evident, and without beginning. Before creation there could be no cause for its manifestation, yet it manifests and
and it must be by itself.

Devotee: Is there any authority for this statement?

Master; Yes. Vasishta's words. He says: Just as bubbles spontaneously arise in water so also the power to  manifest
names and forms rose up from the all powerful and perfect transcendental Self.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.   
     
   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1182 on: September 27, 2014, 03:54:39 PM »
ADVAITA BODHA DEEPIKA:

Apavada:

continues....

Devotee: Maya cannot but have a cause. Just as clay cannot become a pot without the agency of a potter, so also
the Power all along remaining unmanifest in Brahman can manifest only with Isvara's Will.

Master: In dissolution there remains only the non dual Brahman, and no Isvara. Clearly there cannot be His Will.
When it is said that in dissolution  all are withdrawn from manifestation and remain unmanifest, it means the Jivas,
all the universe, and remain unmanifest.  The unmanifest Isvara, cannot exercise His Will. What happens is this: just
as the dormant power of sleep displays itself as dream, so also the dormant power of Maya displays itself as this
plurality, consisting of Isvara, His Will, the universe and the Jivas.  Isvara is thus product of Maya and He cannot
be the origin of His origin.  Maya therefore has no antecedent cause. In dissolution there remains only Pure Being
devoid of will and admitting of no change. In creation Maya, hitherto remaining unmanifest in this Pure Being, shines
forth as the mind. By the play of mind, plurality appears as Isvara, the words and the Jivas, like magic. Maya manifest
is creation,and Maya unmanifest is dissolution.  Thus of its own accord, Maya appears or withdraws itself and has thus no
beginning.  Therefore we say there was no antecedent cause for it. Therefore, we say there was no antecedent cause for it.

Devotee: What is its nature? 

Master:  It is inexpressible. Because its existence is later invalidated, it is not real; because it is  factually experienced,
it is not unreal.  Nor can it be a mixture of the two of the opposites the real and the unreal.  Therefore, the wise say that
it is indescribable - anirvachaniya. 

Devotee: Now what is real and what is unreal?

Master: That which is the substratum of Maya, Pure Being or Brahman, admitting of no duality, is real. The illjusory
phenomenon, consisting of names and forms, and called the universe, is unreal

contd.,

Arunachala Siva. 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1183 on: September 28, 2014, 04:34:17 PM »
Advaita Bodha Deepika:

Devotee: What can Maya be said to be?

Master: Neither of the two. It is different from the real substratum and also from the unreal phenomenon.

Devotee: Please explain this.

Master: Say there is fire; it is the substratum.  The sparks fly from it.  They are the modifications of fire.  The sparks
are no seen in the fire itself, but come out of it. An observation of this phenomenon make us infer a power inherent
in fire which produces the sparks.

Clay is the substratum.  A hollow sphere with a neck and open mouth is made out of it, and is called a pot. This fact
makes us infer a power which is neither clay nor pot but different from both.

Water is the substratum; bubbles are its effects; a power different from both is inferred.

A snake egg is the substratum and a young snake is the product; a power different from the egg and the young snake
is inferred.

A seed is the substratum and the sprout , it product; a power different from the seed and the sprout is inferred.


contd.,

Arunachala Siva.     
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1184 on: September 29, 2014, 11:47:58 AM »
ADVAITA BODHA DEEPIKA:

CONTINUES....

The unchanging Jiva of deep sleep, is the substratum and dream is the effect; a power different from the Jiva and the
dream is inferred after waking up from sleep.

In the same way, the power lying latent in Brahman, produces the illusion of the Jagat.  The substratum of this power is
is Brahman and the Jagat is its effect.  This power cannot be either of them, but must be different from both.  It cannot
be defined.  However it exists.  But it remains inscrutable.  Therefore we say the nature of Maya is indescribable. 

Devotee: What is the effect of Maya?

Master: It consists in presenting the illusion of the Jiva, Isvara, and Jagat, on the non dual substratum of Brahman,
by virtue of its veiling and projecting powers.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.