Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 283931 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1005 on: July 29, 2014, 08:58:04 PM »
?The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, nor to worry about the future, but to live the present moment wisely and earnestly.? ― Gautama Buddha
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1006 on: July 30, 2014, 02:10:43 PM »
Ekatma Panchakam" Only Composition, Written By Bhagavan Ramana, Originally In Telugu And Then in Tamil
Ekatma Panchakam,is the only composition, written by Bhagavan Ramana, originally in Telugu and then translated into Tamil.It was written in February 1947.

Suri Nagamma, requested Bhagavan Ramana once, to compose a poem in Telugu.Bhagavan first declined saying that the pandits would find a lot of faults if He were to write poems in Telugu.

Suri Nagamma said: Bhagavan!Who can correct your poems.They are all Rishis words.I won't allow anyone to correct your Telugu poems."After several requests, Bhagavan Ramana composed Ekatma Panchakam, in Telugu. This was done in Venba metre, which was unknown in Telugu grammar.It consists of five verses.

As was expected, some Telugu scholars objected to these poems saying that these are not as per Telugu metres.Suri Nagamma, then sent them to Velluri Sivarama Sastri, who said that the composition looks like Vedic Revelations and so there is no necessity for any corrections, metrically or otherwise. After this, again some Telugu scholars insisted on metrical corrections and Bhagavan asked them to do whatever they wanted and left the matter at that.Suri Nagamma felt extremely sad.Then, with the corrections of scholars, the proofs came to the Hall on a day.Chinta Dikshitar and Gurram Venkata Subbramaiah were at the Hall during that time.On seeing the proofs,they became very indignant and saw to it that Bhagavan's original version went to print!

Bhagavan later recalled:"Venba is one rare metre available only in Tamil.Once Ganapati Muni tried this in Sanskrit but left it without proceeding further.Narasinga Rao tried this metre in Telugu later and he was also not successful.So I was hesitant in the beginning.Anyway I had to do this because of Suri Nagamma's insistence.It is all right."

Source: Sri Ramansramam - Vazhvum Ninaivum - Tamil - Suri Nagamma.
Ekatma Panchakam" Only Composition, Written By Bhagavan Ramana, Originally In Telugu And Then in Tamil Ekatma Panchakam,is the only composition, written by Bhagavan Ramana, originally in Telugu and then translated into Tamil.It was written in February 1947. Suri Nagamma, requested Bhagavan Ramana once, to compose a poem in Telugu.Bhagavan first declined saying that the pandits would find a lot of faults if He were to write poems in Telugu. Suri Nagamma said: Bhagavan!Who can correct your poems.They are all Rishis words.I won't allow anyone to correct your Telugu poems."After several requests, Bhagavan Ramana composed Ekatma Panchakam, in Telugu. This was done in Venba metre, which was unknown in Telugu grammar.It consists of five verses. As was expected, some Telugu scholars objected to these poems saying that these are not as per Telugu metres.Suri Nagamma, then sent them to Velluri Sivarama Sastri, who said that the composition looks like Vedic Revelations and so there is no necessity for any corrections, metrically or otherwise. After this, again some Telugu scholars insisted on metrical corrections and Bhagavan asked them to do whatever they wanted and left the matter at that.Suri Nagamma felt extremely sad.Then, with the corrections of scholars, the proofs came to the Hall on a day.Chinta Dikshitar and Gurram Venkata Subbramaiah were at the Hall during that time.On seeing the proofs,they became very indignant and saw to it that Bhagavan's original version went to print! Bhagavan later recalled:"Venba is one rare metre available only in Tamil.Once Ganapati Muni tried this in Sanskrit but left it without proceeding further.Narasinga Rao tried this metre in Telugu later and he was also not successful.So I was hesitant in the beginning.Anyway I had to do this because of Suri Nagamma's insistence.It is all right."
Source: Sri Ramansramam - Vazhvum Ninaivum - Tamil - Suri Nagamma.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1007 on: July 31, 2014, 07:38:25 AM »
Friends,
An excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

A NEIGHBOUR: "Why, sir, should one hold to God with one hand and to the world with the other? Why should one even stretch out one hand to hold to the world, if it is
impermanent?"
MASTER: "The world is not impermanent if one lives there after knowing God. Listen to another song:

O mind, you do not know how to farm!
Fallow lies the field of your life.
If you had only worked it well,
How rich a harvest you might reap!
Hedge it about with Kali's name
If you would keep your harvest safe;
This is the stoutest hedge of all,
For Death himself cannot come near it. . . .
"Did you listen to the song?
Hedge it about with Kali's name
If you would keep your harvest safe.
Surrender yourself to God and you will achieve everything.
This is the stoutest hedge of all,
For Death himself cannot come near it.

Ideal householder's life
"Yes, it is a strong hedge indeed. If you but, realize God, you won't see the world as unsubstantial. He who has realized God knows that God Himself has become the world and all living beings. When you feed your child, you should feel that you are feeding God. You should look on your father and mother as veritable manifestations of God and the Divine Mother, and serve them as such. If a man enters the world after realizing God, he does not generally keep up physical relations with his wife. Both of them are devotees; they love to talk only of God and pass their time in spiritual conversation. They serve other devotees of God, for they know that God alone has become all living beings; and, knowing this, they devote their lives to the service of others."


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1008 on: August 01, 2014, 08:24:41 AM »
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

It was about half past six in the morning. M. was going to bathe in the Ganges, when suddenly tremors of an earthquake were felt. At once he returned to Sri Ramakrishna's room. The Master stood in the drawing room. The devotees stood around him. They were talking about the earthquake. The shaking had been rather violent, and many of the devotees were frightened.
M: "You should all have gone downstairs."
MASTER: "Such is the fate of the house under whose roof one lives; and still people are so egotistic. (To M.) Do you remember the great storm of the month of Aswin?"
M: "Yes, sir. I was very young at that time-nine or ten years old. I was alone in a room while the storm was raging, and I prayed to God."
M. was surprised and said to himself: "Why did the Master suddenly ask me about the great storm of Aswin? Does he know that I was alone at that time earnestly praying to God with tears in my eyes? Does he know all this? Has he been protecting me as my guru since my very birth?"
MASTER: "It was quite late in the day at Dakshineswar when the storm broke, but somehow they managed to cook the meals. The trees were uprooted. You see, this is the fate of the house one lives in.

Nitya and Lila

"But when one attains Perfect Knowledge, then one finds that dying and killing are one and the same thing; that is to say, both are unreal. When one is dead, one has not really died; and when one has killed another, the man is not really dead. Both the Lila and the Nitya belong to the same Reality. In one form It is the Absolute, and in another, the Lila . Even though the Lila is destroyed, the Nitya always exists. Water is water, whether it is still or in waves; it is the same water when the waves quiet down."


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1009 on: August 02, 2014, 06:05:28 PM »
Friends,
One of the recurring themes in this forum is that of prarabda and sri Bhagavan's statement as in the post from Anand sundaram that I am copying below:

Quote
dear friends,
The same thing was also informed by Bhagavan to Sivaprakasam Pillai.You may refer to the Power of the Presence part 1.
Of course before that Bhagavan had informed this in the first note that he even wrote ."The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.".
Hence there is no need to feel angush about what will happen,no need to worry whether we have said or done the right thing.
Everything is divinely ordained.Hence we should try to focus on practicing whatever sadhana works consistently for us and just "drop" the rest .
Regards,
Anand Sundaram.

Just what is the meaning of this statement-
1."The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds".
What is Fate?If the Ordainer controls it,then why he cannot make us do things to annul it?

2. "Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent".
What does it mean by remaining silent?Does it mean that we do not make any choice in life,be it applying for a job or job change,or buying a dwelling or educating children,etc,etc.

Subramanian had commented:

Quote
The Verse says that Prarabdha will take care of even the food that is required.  One need not seek it with efforts.  Because any efforts cannot overcome Prarabdha.  There are several examples in Sri Bhagavan's life itself.  When He was very hungry at Arainai Nallur, the priest refused to give the cakes of rice to Him.  But in Keelur temple, the drummer gave his quota of food to Him!  Again when He was hungry, not knowing the further route to T'mlaai, Muthukrishna Bhagavatar's sister gave Him  all sweets and savouries prepared for the next day, Kirshna's birthday to Him in a packet!  She also gave Him food.

If food can come without any effort,then why should Bhagavan go around the streets of Tiruvannamalai clapping his hands in search of food?

Granting that food comes to us without asking as per prarabda,does it not take effort to open our mouth and eat it?Is that also part of Prarabda?

Does the above mean that we should give up all efforts,and just focus on so called sadhana,in whatever way we understand?To do sadhana also requires effort,and if that is also controlled by Prarabda,then why attempt it?

Just what are the implications of the statement by Sri Bhagavan?What does it mean to us?In what way it will alter our dealings with the world or doing our sadhana?

I thought it will be useful to discuss this in order to clear the cobwebs in our understanding on the very Nature of Prarabda,Purushartha(self effort) and divine Grace or will.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1010 on: August 02, 2014, 07:15:06 PM »
Friends,
It will be useful to consider this widely known(not necessarily understood!)verse from Chapter 2 of Srimad bhagavad gita,verse 47:

Quote
Karman eVA'dhikarastEy, mA phaleshu kada chana,

mA Karma Phala HEytuh Bhuh mA tey SangO stva Akarmani

To work alone you are empowered ,lay not claim to its fruits at any time
Let not the fruits of action be your motive ;neither should you lean towards inaction.

This is a wonderful verse.Why do we perform any action?No one can remain without any action.We are empowered to act and we act with certain objectives only,yet this does not entitle us to the Fruits of the action.
The end should not justify our means-we need to put in the effort as per our station in life.We cannot give up efforts and lean towards inaction.

The above verse has other dimensions but this is enough for most practical purposes.

Namaskar

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1011 on: August 02, 2014, 07:44:48 PM »
Mesmerised by mantras

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/dr-rangasami-l-kashyap-fascinated-by-the-vedas-sets-up-saksi-for-the-revival-of-vedic-knowledge/article6267914.ece

Harvard-educated Dr. Rangasami L. Kashyap is fascinated by the Vedas and set up an institute to further his passion.


He has a Masters degree from IISc and a PhD. from Harvard. But Dr. Rangasami L. Kashyap is happiest when he is discussing the Vedas and Vedic studies. The Bengaluru-based scholar was recently honoured by the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan for his contributions to Vedic study, and conferred an Honorary D. Litt by the Karnataka Sanskrit University. He has translated 23,000 Vedic mantras, in 26 volumes. In addition, he has brought out 50 books in what he calls the ?Compact Series?, where each book runs to just 100 pages.

But what is interesting is Kashyap has not studied in a Veda Patasala. ?My only acquaintance with Sanskrit in the early years was in school; it was my second language. I was taught Sandhyavandana mantras by my father,? he says.

Kashyap was curious about the import of the Vedas, but there was no one to answer his questions. Formal education claimed most of his time. He stood first in the State in his Inter exams, and went on to do BSc in Physics, Masters at the IISc and PhD in Harvard, where he won the Gordon McKay Prize Fellowship, and completed his PhD in less than three years. He became a faculty member at the department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, at the Purdue University, West Lafayette, U.S. He has published more than 250 research papers and guided 50 doctoral students. His doctoral work, ?Ho-Kashyap algorithm? is quoted even today in text books. He, along with with Dr.Ho, started the journal IEEE Transactions of Pattern Analyses and Machine Intelligence. And yet ask him if he gives lectures in his field of study after his retirement, and he replies, ?Rarely. All my time is spent in Vedic studies.?

When did he start studying the Vedas? He answers, ?When I was in the U.S., I first had my scholarship money and later during my tenure at Purdue, I had more money at my disposal. So I bought books on the Upanishads, the Gita, and translations of the Vedas by Griffith and Keith. I was surprised to find that although Rg Vedic mantras are quoted explicitly in the Chandogya and Brihaddaranyaka Upanishads, this aspect was not touched upon by speakers on Vedanta.?

In any case, with all the questions he had, Kashyap was in need of a guru. The visit to the U.S. by Madhav Pandit from the Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry, was a godsend. Kashyap was drawn to the work of Aurobindo and Kapali Sastri, and his translations and interpretations of the Vedas are inspired by their works.

Post-retirement, Kashyap set up SAKSI (Sri Aurobindo Kapali Sastry Institute of Vedic Culture) for the revival of Vedic knowledge. He clarifies that SAKSI has nothing to do with the Sri Aurobindo Ashram or with the Aurobindo Society.

What was it that drew him to the work of Aurobindo and Kapali Sastri? ?Aurobindo points out that Vedic mantras had a symbolic meaning. Kapali Sastri identified 30 key words such as Agni and Gau, which occur more than 500 times in the Rg Veda. These help you arrive at the deeper meaning.?

But if there are such deeper meanings, does he mean to say that no one had noticed them before Aurobindo did? ?The concept is indicated in the Mahabharata. Madhvacharya in his ?Rg Veda Bhashya? said that Vedic passages have three meanings - one referring to Gods (Adhidaivika), one referring to rituals (Adhi-Yajna) and the esoteric meaning (Adhyaatmika). Later, Raghavendra Swami looked at the last aspect more elaborately in his work ?Mantraartha Manjari.? Aurobindo made a pertinent observation. He said that to understand the Vedas, the Vedas are the only guide.?

Do the Vedas talk of moksha? ?By and large, no. Not in the sense in which we understand it. They talk of the divinisation of human beings.?

Is sanyasa recommended by the Vedas as the way to attain such divinisation? ?No. Marriage was not regarded as an obstacle to spiritual progress in the Vedas. That idea came much later.? So how did that idea gain currency? ?Some people might have felt that they could get more spiritual ideas that way. But the Vedas don?t have this material versus spiritual idea. They emphasise on holistic perfection.?

Kashyap says women were not excluded from studying the Vedas. He points out that of the 400 Vedic rishis, 30 were women. He says that even the words used to describe women seers show the importance they had - Aditi, because she is not dependent (Nirukta 4/22); Vishrutaa, for she is learned, Dhruva, for she is firm and so on. ?Even in the Upanishadic times, you have the example of Gargi participating in philosophical discussions.?

Hasn?t the oral tradition been responsible for the preservation of the Vedas? ?Oral chanting was an excellent strategy, because manuscripts could be destroyed. Also when people chant in different ways like krama, jata, ghana etc., errors can be detected. So, we had an Error Correcting and Detecting scheme, thousands of years before the West rediscovered it in the 1950s, for computer and communication applications. But the downside was that when invasions took place, patronage for Vedic learning dwindled, and many sakas were lost. Patanjali speaks of 98 sakas of the Yajur Veda. Today, we have only six!?

Veda patasalas keep alive the tradition even today, with emphasis on oral chanting, I point out. ?What is the use of just learning how to chant? The meanings are more important. Sadly, even the teachers often don?t know the meanings. In any case, how many students stay for the entire duration of the course? Once they get the hang of things, they leave to become purohits.?

Kashyap says we shouldn?t look at Western solutions to Indian problems. He says that it is wrong to conclude that with the coming of industrial agriculture, fewer people are engaged in agriculture. What has happened is that work has shifted from the fields to the making of tractors and the monotonous work of extraction of oil, to fuel the tractors and harvesters. Kashyap gives statistics to buttress his arguments against the use of pesticides and fertilisers. ?In 1948, farmers in the U.S. used 50 million pounds of pesticides, and crop loss was 7 per cent. In 2000, a billion pounds of pesticides was used and crop loss was 13 per cent. So that shows that the bugs have developed resistance. Organic farming, on the other hand, allows insect predator population to have a healthy presence.?

Kashyap practises what he preaches. He has a completely organic farm at the Edumadu village, near Kanakpura, Bengaluru, where he has cows, and grows vegetables and fruits.

?SAKSI has published 160 titles in eight languages.

?SAKSI has its own recording studio, and 18 CDs have been brought out on the Vedas, Upanishads etc. In addition to chanting, the CDs give the meaning too.

?Teachers in schools catering to the poorer sections of society, have been trained by SAKSI, and they teach Vedic chants to their pupils. The children say their memory power and their creativity have improved, as a result.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 07:50:38 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1012 on: August 02, 2014, 08:32:55 PM »
Atmavichar,
Here is the sakshi website:

http://www.vedah.com/

Sri aurobindo's 'Secret of the Vedas' is a wonderful exploration into the spirit of the Vedic seers.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1013 on: August 02, 2014, 08:36:35 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of sri Ramakrishna:

God and worldly duties
MASTER: "Perform your duties in an unselfish spirit. The work that Vidyasagar is engaged in is very good. Always try to perform your duties without desiring any result."
M: "Yes, sir. But may I know if one can realize God while performing one's duties? Can 'Rama' and 'desire' coexist? The other day I read in a Hindi couplet: 'Where Rama is, there desire cannot be; where desire is, there Rama cannot be.' "
MASTER: "All, without exception, perform work. Even to chant the name and glories of God is work, as is the meditation of the non-dualist on 'I am He'. Breathing is also an activity. There is no way of renouncing work altogether. So do your work, but surrender the result to God."
M: "Sir, may I make an effort to earn more money?"
MASTER: "It is permissible to do so to maintain a religious family. You may try to increase your income, but in an honest way. The goal of life is not the earning of money,
but the service of God. Money is not harmful if it is devoted to the service of God."
M: "How long should a man feel obliged to do his duty toward his wife and children?"
MASTER: "As long as they feel pinched for food and clothing. But one need not take the responsibility of a son when he is able to support himself. When the young fledgling learns to pick its own food, its mother pecks it if it comes to her for food."
M: "How long must one do one's duty?"
MASTER: "The blossom drops off when the fruit appears. One doesn't have to do one's duty after the attainment of God, nor does one feel like doing it then.
"If a drunkard takes too much liquor he cannot retain consciousness. If he takes only two or three glasses, he can go on with his work. As you advance nearer and nearer to God, He will reduce your activities little by little. Have no fear".
"Finish the few duties you have at hand, and then you will have peace. When the mistress of the house goes to bathe after finishing her cooking and other household duties, she won't come back, however you may shout after her."

Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1014 on: August 03, 2014, 07:48:52 AM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

God supplies the needs of devotees
MASTER: 'The giver is the Lord Himself. The mother-in-law said to her daughter-in-law:'My child, I see that everybody has someone to render him a little personal service. It would be so nice if you could find someone to massage your feet.' The daughter-in-law said: 'Mother, God Himself will massage my feet. I don't need anyone else.' She spoke thus because she was a sincere lover of God.
"Once a fakir went to the Emperor Akbar to ask for money. The Emperor was saying his prayers. He prayed, 'O Lord, give me money; give me wealth.' The fakir started to leave the palace, but the Emperor motioned to him to wait. After finishing his prayers, Akbar came to the holy man and said, 'Why were you going away?' The fakir replied, 'You yourself were begging for money and wealth; so I thought that if I must beg, I would beg of God and not of a beggar.'"
VIJAY: "I saw a sadhu at Gaya. He did not take the initiative in anything. One day he wanted to feed some devotees. Suddenly we found that butter, flour, fruits, and other foodstuff had arrived from no one knew where."

Three classes of sadhus

MASTER (to Vijay and the others): 'There are three classes of sadhus: good, mediocre, and bad. The good sadhu makes no effort to get his food. The dandis, among others, belong to the mediocre and bad classes. To get food the mediocre sadhu will knock at the door of a house and say, 'Namo Narayana'. The bad sadhu starts a quarrel if he doesn't get his alms.
"The good sadhu behaves like a python. He sits in one place and the food comes to him. The python doesn't move from where it is. A young sadhu, who had been a  Brahmachari from his boyhood, went out to beg. A young girl offered him alms. The sadhu saw her breasts and thought she had abscesses. He asked about them. The elderly women of the family explained that she would some day be a mother and that God had given her breasts to give milk to her children; God had provided for all this beforehand. At these words the sadhu was struck with wonder. He said: Then 1 don't need to beg. God must have provided for me too."

Some of the devotees thought that in that case they should not take any initiative either.

MASTER: "But those who think that an effort is needed must make the effort."

« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 08:54:40 AM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1015 on: August 03, 2014, 08:21:02 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

ksksat27

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1016 on: August 06, 2014, 04:27:51 PM »
Friends,
One of the recurring themes in this forum is that of prarabda and sri Bhagavan's statement as in the post from Anand sundaram that I am copying below:

Quote
dear friends,
The same thing was also informed by Bhagavan to Sivaprakasam Pillai.You may refer to the Power of the Presence part 1.
Of course before that Bhagavan had informed this in the first note that he even wrote ."The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.".
Hence there is no need to feel angush about what will happen,no need to worry whether we have said or done the right thing.
Everything is divinely ordained.Hence we should try to focus on practicing whatever sadhana works consistently for us and just "drop" the rest .
Regards,
Anand Sundaram.

Just what is the meaning of this statement-
1."The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds".
What is Fate?If the Ordainer controls it,then why he cannot make us do things to annul it?

2. "Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent".
What does it mean by remaining silent?Does it mean that we do not make any choice in life,be it applying for a job or job change,or buying a dwelling or educating children,etc,etc.

Subramanian had commented:

Quote
The Verse says that Prarabdha will take care of even the food that is required.  One need not seek it with efforts.  Because any efforts cannot overcome Prarabdha.  There are several examples in Sri Bhagavan's life itself.  When He was very hungry at Arainai Nallur, the priest refused to give the cakes of rice to Him.  But in Keelur temple, the drummer gave his quota of food to Him!  Again when He was hungry, not knowing the further route to T'mlaai, Muthukrishna Bhagavatar's sister gave Him  all sweets and savouries prepared for the next day, Kirshna's birthday to Him in a packet!  She also gave Him food.

If food can come without any effort,then why should Bhagavan go around the streets of Tiruvannamalai clapping his hands in search of food?

Granting that food comes to us without asking as per prarabda,does it not take effort to open our mouth and eat it?Is that also part of Prarabda?

Does the above mean that we should give up all efforts,and just focus on so called sadhana,in whatever way we understand?To do sadhana also requires effort,and if that is also controlled by Prarabda,then why attempt it?

Just what are the implications of the statement by Sri Bhagavan?What does it mean to us?In what way it will alter our dealings with the world or doing our sadhana?

I thought it will be useful to discuss this in order to clear the cobwebs in our understanding on the very Nature of Prarabda,Purushartha(self effort) and divine Grace or will.

Namaskar.

Dear Ravi sir,

Your questions are realy beautiful.  You have taken Bhagavan's statement line by line and expressed your questions. but what is the solution? where is the answer?  I kindly request to keep this reply alone as a subject of discussion and take it forward.  B.Gita is good , but let us not sidetrack with other scriptures.

Let us see if we can find the Purusharthaa and Prarabhda differences.


Can we start a new thread with your above question?

Regards,
Krishna

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1017 on: August 06, 2014, 05:18:39 PM »
Dear Ravi, Krishnan,

What Sri Bhagavn meant by free will is to achieve something with aggressive efforts.  Aggressive efforts should not be
made.  Simple things like urination, excretion, bathing, alms seeking are not aggressive efforts.  When Sri Bhagavan
went for bhiksha, He did not make any aggressive efforts, thinking that He should get one bowl full of bhiksha.  He simply
took the food offered on His hands and ate it and even cleaned the wet hands on His body. He only went to three houses
and then returned.

When He was suffering from constipation, He asked for kadukkai.  The kadukkai was not brought by the attendant for
several days.  Then one villager brought a sack full of kadukkai.  Till such time, He did not make any aggressive efforts
asking the attendant everyday! 

What we do in modern days, we the ordinary people, are aggressive efforts.  For example, Krishnan tried hard to get
back to his place from Mumbai.  Many people go company after company seeking job. 

To drive home this point, Sri Bhagavan said to Devaraja Mudaliar that even simple things like picking a hand fan from
floor and placing it back after fanning for a while, is also controlled by Prarabdha.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1018 on: August 06, 2014, 05:31:23 PM »
Dear Friends

Past is destiny. What you are now, is due to your past, which is destiny, and your actions now determine your future. Therefore act prudently.

There is NO Destiny NOW. If you keep quiet thinking this is destiny, it is just stagnation. If you waste the NOW surrendering to destiny and that your destiny will take care of you, your future, it is foolishness.

It is wisdom to exercise your purushartha with viveka now. Belief on destiny is just blind belief. The Sages and Scriptures have never advocated anything as thus.

It is sheer misunderstanding that to surrender to God is simply surrendering to destiny. This is Sin.

There is no destiny! There is no destiny! Walk like a lion and face your enemies and reach your destination!

Surrendering to Destiny is Tamas of highest order, it is deep sleep, sloth. Krishna calls Arjuna Gudakesha, therefore, wake up from drowsiness and work out your salvation.

There is nothing called destiny. to whom is a destiny, what is a destiny? Destiny is Death. Waste not the precious Human life endowed with amazing powers of discrimination, intelligence in realization of the Truth.

Strive diligently.

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« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 05:35:05 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1019 on: August 06, 2014, 08:07:19 PM »
Nagaraj,
Well said.Truly nothing more to add.
Namaskar.