Author Topic: Vasanas after knowing the truth  (Read 2359 times)

Nagaraj

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Vasanas after knowing the truth
« on: March 30, 2012, 09:19:29 AM »
ज्ञाते वस्तुन्यपि बलवती वासनाऽनादिरेषा
कर्ता भोक्ताप्यहमिति दृढा याऽस्य संसारहेतुः।
प्रत्यग्दृष्ट्याऽऽत्मनि निवसता सापनेया प्रयत्ना-
न्मुक्तिं प्राहुस्तदिह मुनयो वासनातानवं यत् ॥२६७॥


Jnaate Vastunyapi Balavati Vaasanaanaadireshaa
Kartaam Bhoktaapyamiti Druda Yaasya Samsaarahetuh |
Pratyadrushtyaatmani Nivasataa Saapaneyaa Prayatnan-
Muktir Praahustadiha Munayo Vaasanaataanavam Yat || 267


Even when the  Truth is known, there remains powerful, beginningless, deep residual impression that one is the doer and the enjoyer, which is the cause of rebirth. That impression has to be carefully removed by living in an inward state of steady
identification with the Self. The annihilation of these impressions, here and now, is called liberation by the sages.

(Vivekachoodamani)

Therefore that perfection is only attained by constant Tapas alone, ceaseless meditation, constant discernment.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 09:22:41 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2012, 01:49:48 PM »

I am surprised you are, so to speak, "left alone" with this post. What you are saying is so in keeping with the importance given by Siddharameshwar Maharaj ( and no doubt others) to devotion to your Guru after Knowledge has dawned.

I am thinking that Bhagavan's walking around Arunachala and his always living there  was his equivalent.

Thank you for all your words.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 02:53:03 PM »

Sri Bhagavan says that mere knowledge about Atma will not remove the vasanas. One should engage in Swarupa Dhyanam
and the vasanas will be annihilated one by one. After Self realization, there will be practically no vasanas.

However, Sri Bhagavan says in one of His conversations:
Vasanas are of two types, bandha hetu (that which causes bondage) and bhoga hetu (that which produces enjoyment
but not cause bondage). Of these the bhoga hetu vasanas may continue in Brahma Jnanis also.

Once when the Asramam prepared Aviyal (mixed vegetables preparation with curds) and Kanji (liquid porridge of rice),
Sri Bhagavan and all devotees enjoyed these two items for their break fast. Surprisingly, Sri Bhagavan who never asked
anything extra, He asked for additional cups of Kanji and aviayl.  This is a classic example of bhoga hetu vasana for a
Brahma Jnani.

Arunachala Siva.     

Nagaraj

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 11:30:05 PM »
Dear cefnbrithdir, Subramanian Sir,

I was very much intrigued with this verse of Adi Shankaracharya. Actually to speak, it is quite clear, that knowing or discerning the truth is not the end in itself. The task is unfinished unless one attains the Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi, constant identity with the truth.

But, thereafter, knowing the truth, we tend to keep discussing about the truth itself, because of some fascination, or because of the unlimited expanse of the truth, or because of the simple and beauty of the truth and so on... but, if we fail to strive to attain the Nishta or 'being that' which is the real goal, and, nit just knowing the truth alon. Tapas, Tapas, ceaseless and tireless Tapas.

Knowning truth is also, just another Siddhi, one can easily get caught in this and keep sharing it, becoming one Guru, guiding people, in utmost sincerity, but if one fails to attain the Nishta, it is still birth after birth...

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2012, 11:53:59 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. This verse of Viveka Chudamani  is somewhat baffling. What Sri Sankara perhaps, means was that mere knowledge of the Truth
will not kill  vasanas. Only continuous abidance in the Self helps removal of vasanas.


Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 11:54:41 AM »
A question was raised as follows by Maj. A. W. Chadwick:-

Mr. Edward Carpenter, a certain mystic, has written in a book that he had Self-Realisation on some occasions and that its effects lasted
sometimes afterwards, only to be gradually lost. Whereas Sri Ramana Gita says, “Granthi (knot = bondage), snapped once, is snapped for
ever.” In the case of this mystic, the bondage seems to have persisted even after Self-Realisation. How can it be so?

The Master cited Kaivalya as follows:-

The disciple, after realising the all-shining, unitary, unbroken state of Being-Knowledge-Bliss, surrendered himself to the master and
humbly prayed to know how he could repay the master’s Grace. The Master said:

“My reward consists in your permanent unbroken Bliss. Do not slip away from it.”

D.: Having once experienced the Supreme Bliss, how can one stray away from it?
M.: Oh yes! It happens. The predisposition adhering to him from time immemorial will draw him out and so ignorance overtakes him.

D.: What are the obstacles to remaining steady in unbroken Bliss?  How can they be overcome?
M.: The obstacles are:

(1) Ignorance which is forgetfulness of one’s pure being.
(2) Doubt which consists in wondering if even the experience was
of the Real or of the unreal.
(3) Error which consists in the “I-am-the-body” idea, and thinking that the world is real. These are overcome by hearing the truth,
reflection on it and concentration.

The Master continued: Experience is said to be temporary or permanent. The first experience is temporary and by concentration it can become permanent. In the former the bondage is not completely destroyed; it remains subtle and reasserts itself in due course. But in the latter it is destroyed root and branch, never to appear again. The expression yogabhrashta (those who have fallen down from yoga) in Srimad Bhagavad Gita refers to the former class of men.

D.: Is then hearing the Truth meant only for a limited few?
M.: It is of two kinds. The ordinary one is to hear it enunciated and explained by a master. However, the right one is to raise the question for oneself and seek and find the answer in oneself as the unbroken ‘I-I’. To be reflecting on this experience is the second stage. To remain one-pointed in it is the third stage.

D.: Can the temporary experience be called samadhi?
M.: No. It forms part of the third stage.

D.: It looks then as if even hearing the Truth is limited to a very few.
M.: The seekers fall into two classes; kritopasaka and akritopasaka. The former having already overcome his predisposition by steady devotion, his mind thus made pure, has had some kind of experience but does not comprehend it; as soon as he is instructed by a competent master, permanent experience results. The other class of seeker needs great effort to achieve this end. How will the hearing of the Truth, reflection and concentration help him? They comprise upasana (the nearest approach to Truth) and will end in his Self-Realization. The fourth stage is the final one of liberation. Even there some distinction is made according to the degree, as

(1) the knower of the Brahman (Brahmavid)
(2) Brahmavid-vara
(3) Brahmavid-varya
(4) Brahmavid-varishta

But all of them are in fact liberated even while alive.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 12:04:24 PM »
(Kaivalya Navaneetam, part two, verses 149-51)

The four levels of knowing Brahman that correspond to categories four to seven are discussed in the first part of Kaivalya Navaneetham:

94 The wise, remaining like ether and liberated even here, are of four classes, namely Brahmavid (i.e. knower of Brahman), vara, varya, and varishta, in order of merit.

95 The Brahmavids who by steadfast practice have gained clear realisation of Brahman, continue to perform even the hard duties of their caste and stage in life, exactly as prescribed by the shastras, for the benefit of others, without themselves swerving from their supreme state.

96 Should passions rise up they disappear instantly and cannot taint the mind of the Brahmavids who live in society detached like water on a lotus leaf. They look ignorant, not showing forth their knowledge and remain mute owing to intensity of inward bliss.

97 Prarabdha, i.e. karma which is now bearing fruit, differs according to the actions of the persons in past incarnations. Therefore their present pursuits also differ among jnanis who are all, however, liberated even here. They may perform holy tapas; or engage in trade and commerce; or rule a kingdom; or wander about as mendicants.

98 They would not think of the past or future; would partake of what comes unsolicited; would not wonder if the sun turned into the moon or at any marvel, whether the sky were to spread its shoots down like a banyan tree or a corpse were to be revived; nor would they distinguish good and bad, for they always remain as the unchanging witness of all.

99 Among the other three classes, the vara and the varya remain settled in samadhi.
The vara feels concern for the maintenance of the body; the varya is reminded of it by others; the varishta never becomes aware of the body either by himself or through others.

100 Although there are distinguishing characteristics in the lives of the different sages, who are themselves very rare in the world, yet there is absolutely no difference in the experience of liberation.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 12:06:13 PM »
Dear all

Yes. The original post by Nagaraj garu also reminds me of the story of Brigu maharshi in Yoga Vasishta, where he comes out of 1000 years in Nirvikalpa Samadhi and saw his son's skeletal remains, takes water from Kamandalu and proceeds to curse Yama. Yama explains the similar concepts to Brigu muni there about vasanas catching you back even after 1000 years in Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

Peace
Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2012, 01:45:57 PM »

Sri Bhagavan has said one or two things very lucidly in Talks:

1. Were the vasanas in the brain instead of in the Heart, they must be extinguished if the head is cut off so that reincarnations
will be at an end. But it is not so. The  Self obviously safeguards the vasanas in its close proximity, i.e within itself in the Heart,
just as a miser keep his most valued possessions with himself and never out of contact.  Hence the place of Vasanas is the Self.
i.e the Heart and not the brain. The brain is only the theater for the play of vasanas from the green house of the Heart.     

In advaita there can be no place for Jiva, Isvara and Maya. Oneself sinking into the Self, the Vasanas will entirely disappear leaving
no room for such questions.

Just as fire remains without scorching against incantations or other devices, but scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled
by vasanas and reveals itself when there are no vasanas. Owing to the fluctuation of the vasanas, Jnana takes time to steady itself.
Unsteady Jnana is not enough to check rebirths. Jnana cannot remain unshaken side by side with vasanas. True that in proximity of a great master, vasanas will cease to be active. But to remain unshaken further efforts  are necessary.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 02:12:57 PM »
True that in proximity of a great master, vasanas will cease to be active. But to remain unshaken further efforts  are necessary.

.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta