Discussion on Horoscope

[Nagaraj]

Friends,

I open this thread to discuss about Horoscope and ones destiny.

Almost all the Jnanis' that have been and are, people have interpreted their Horoscopes and they have claimed that the Horoscope speaks of the stages where the Jnani attains Jnana.

Some are of opinion that if the Horoscope does not says so, no matter how much one may try, he may not attain it. Horoscopes of Bhagavan, Kanchi Maha Periyava, Sringeri Maha Periyava, all of them do convey with clarity their life, their renouncement, etc...

I am sure, most of our Horoscopes do not have such pronouncement. No matter how much excellent understandings and discernments and beautiful posts we may come up with, if it is not there, it is not there.

I wish members to share their thoughts on this.

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Nagaraj,

Horoscope / astrology are originally  Vedic.  It is Vedangam, a part of Vedas.  However, much lies in interpretation. I have seen
many astrologers in the past (since 15 years I have lost faith in that science, as it is practiced today), who can say the past
happenings correctly but not the future ones. Most of their future predictions do not come out correctly.  So also with Nadi sastram,
where people search old palm leaves stacked in their house, related to a person,  when a person gives some clue
to that Nadi astrologer, like name or father's name etc.,   Nadi sastram  is prevalent in some places like Vaitheeswaran Kovil
and Chidambaram in Tamizh Nadu.

I do not know about other Jnani's horoscopes. But as regards Sri Bhagavan's, Sri Suddhanda Bharati mentions in his
Tamizh Sri Ramana Vijayam, giving His horoscope and then telling that such and such planetary positions indicate
sannyasam and Jnanaubhavam.

In recent years, Smt. Gayatri Devi Vasudev, (niece of world famous B.V. RAMAN) had written an article - analyzing Sri Bhagavan's
horoscope thoroughly and INDICATED THAT HE ATTAINED HIS SELF HOOD EXPERIENCE IN MADURAI ON 10th July 1896!
This article has come some two or three years back, in Mountain Path issues.


B.V. Raman has also predicted  a few things wrongly. e.g. one American Presidential election result, where he had said Bush
would lose,  but Bush had won! 

Arunachala Siva.

[Jyoti]

B.V. Raman has also predicted  a few things wrongly. e.g. one American Presidential election result, where he had said Bush
would lose,  but Bush had won! 

It is my impression that Bush acctually lost, just his party was fast enough to claim victory.

[Subramanian.R]

Horsocopes /astrology are only indicative. They are deterministic.  No one except God can surely say what would happen to an
individual soul.  No one change God's plans. However, since Jnanis like Bhagavan are God themselves, they can change the
course of destiny.  Once Rangan, Sri Bhagavan's school mate came to Him with a long face, and said: Bhagavan! Astrologers
say that my time is quite bad for another six months.  I do not know what to do. Sri Bhagavan said: You don't worry. You be
with me in the Asramam. Rangan sent a letter to home and remained in Asramam and he was even sleeping in the Old Hall
where Sri Bhagavan used to lie down on the couch there. Six months passed. Nothing bad happened to Rangan. Sri Bhagavan
said: You can now go with peace of mind, your family will be anxious.

Arunachala Siva.   

[Anand]

dear friends,
As a curiosity, is there any famous  website which gives one's horoscope online free, given time and place of birth.
regards,
Anand.

[ksksat27]

Dear Nagaraj

It is surprising to receive this title from you . 

Anycase,   you and me feel the same thing --  if it is not there,  it is not there.  No matter how beautifully we give lecture to our family members speaking vedantam,   in tamil  we are generally ridiculed like 'perusa vedantam pesaran"

It seems  some pots are not really eligible at all.  Atleast I would fall under that category.

Even Nisarghadatta Maharaj who in his last days denied even re-incarnation ,  has mentioned that some forms of the consciousness (consciousess his a creative saguna brahman in his dictionary.  So he has mentioned that some forms made out of this consciosuness are destined by the chemicals of the pancha putas to realize and get enlightenred.  Other set of chemicals are summarily not all eligible.

I can only join you together and symphatize my state in this aspect.  This creation never flaws,  so are the nine planets.  Their positions will definitely indicate what is about to happen.  Even our so called efforts are already ordained in our script as per Anamalai Swami.

Even if you change your prarabhda by your very very deep,  sustained effort,  it is also part of your script that such and such a person would make great efforts and transcend his prarabhda.

So that is the state it seems.

But let me ask you this:  who nowadays correctly tell future?  nobody.  Assuming you get enlightened --  then after that event,  if you show your horoscope,  they will give nice interpretation --  even though all 8 planets indicate a samsaric life, the 9th planet,  that too in a certian degree,  cancels all that effect and gave you full jnana.

If you dont get enlightened ,  they will explain interms of otehr 8 planet position very easily.  They wont even try to analyze any exception.   Because it is clear, you are a samsari. 

So in this state of affairs,  we cannot do all this.

But one thing never fails --  our deep conscience,  our deep sub-conscious mind will never lie.  You would have got a fee of how things are going to be.  That inner feeling is the greatest forecast.  It never fails.  If you feel you are going to get self realized in this birth,  it will definitely happen even at last moment.  If you dont get that intuitive feeling and some or other doubt comes,  then it is not this birth.

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Krishnan,

I agree with one of your observations. Our deep intuitive feeling always predicts correct things. What is this intuition? It is not
from the surface of the mind.  It is from a very deep source. That source, is the Self. When the Self designs something to happen,
it happens and that is called our intuitive feeling.,

But this intuitive feeling will be a success only in case of a sattvic mind.  A mind with rajas and tamas, if it intuites, it can go wrong.
A highway robber, if he intuitively feels that he will not be caught on a particular day, while robbing, he is bound to fail and he will
be got. Sri Bhagavan calls this sattvic mind as amalamadhi, Pure Mind or Suddha Manas.


Arunachala Siva.   

[Nagaraj]

Dear friends,

Thanks to all for sharing your views.

after having contemplated over this topic for some time, i have come to conclusion that yes, the horoscope speaks of one future, but, the power or the urge of ones own sankalpa is even more powerful than the 9 planets. This is certain.

For a person of Dridha sankalpa, so strong willed, to utilise this life itself for the only and sole purpose of realisation of God, shall not fit into the realms of the 9 planets.

Arunagirinathar sings in Kandar Alangaram:

nAL en seiyum, vinaithAn en seiyum,
enai nAdi vantha kOL en seiyum,
kodung kUtRu en seiyum,
kumarEsar iru thALum, silambum, sathangkaiyum, thaNdaiyum, shaNmugamum,
thOLum, kadambum, enakku munnE vanthu thOndRidinE

Which means that bad days, or even Karma or Grahas or curses cant do anything if The Lotus Feet, the ornaments like Silambu, sathangai and Thandai that make nice sounds and decorate His Feet, His Beautiful Six Faces, Twelve Shoulders and The wonderful Garland of Kadamba Flower Decorating Lord Kumaresa appear in front of our eyes.

meaning, the days, stars, or planets cannot do anything adverse to one, one who holds the feet of Lord Muruga.

But it is of paramount importance to note this - one who holds the feet of Lord Muruga.

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Nagaraj,

Yes, very true.  When Jnana Sambandha and Tiru Navukkarasar were in Vedaranyam, they got the message from the Pandyan
Queen to come to Madurai and change the King from wrong faith. The King was a Jaina and he was surrounded by Jainas
with all sorts of claims and dominance. Jnana Sambandha was at that time 6 years old and
Tiru Navukkarasar told the child  saint not to go, because he knew how tough are Jains in dealing with opponents. Further,
he said: The stars and planets are not conducive for such a trip.  Then Jnana Sambandha sang the famous KoLaRu Padigam.

It stars. vEyuru thoLi pangan vida muNda kaNdan.... This contains 10 verses and speaks at length  that Siva's devotees
will not be harmed by

a. Planetary positions.

b. a day's good time and bad time.

c. days like ashtami , navami etc.,

d. Brahma and Vishnu

e. by diseases and yama and death.

f. the three types of fate like prarabdha etc.,

g. wild animals, snakes etc.,

h. extreme cold conditions, hard conditions etc.,

i. cold based diseases, vAdham, (paralysis etc.,) pitham (madness, confusion, etc.,)

Finally such devotees would reach Siva's feet at the appropriate time.   

Maha Periya of Kanchi used to advice devotees to chant these songs if they had some problems not good  planetary
positions, etc.,

Arunachala Siva.

[Beloved Abstract]

whats the best way to make god laugh ?  .............. tell him your plans

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Beloved Abstract,

Sri Ramakrishna has said: She is yantri. I am yantra. She is the mechanic. I am merely a machine in her hands.


Arunachala Siva.

[Hari]

Horoscope / astrology are originally  Vedic.

It is not true, the first civilization which has developed astrology is Babylonian. Vedic astrology may be more accurate (which I cannot say because I don't know) but is not the earliest in history. I think the ancient Indians were more interested in the internal than external knowledge.

[deepa]

I don't know or care to know much about astrology.
I just feel that the focus on astrology/times and blind rituals, etc have created unnecessary fear, consumed people and taken them away from Vedanta or bhakthi. As Nochurji says, the crowds in the navagraha sannidhis are much higher than even in the main sannidhi these days.

I had relatives who, in their obsession with observing rahu kalam/yama kantam, etc, completely lost the spirit behind their puja, etc. My father says they may have been instituted to give some discipline to us - i.e., finish something before rahu kalam so that we don't procrastinate.

I also feel self-enquiry and Bhagawan's teachings are independent of these side disciplines.
My 2 paisa opinion!
Deepa