Author Topic: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with  (Read 4319 times)

ksksat27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 951
    • View Profile
No matter how hard I try,  I am not able to get pure love for God.

What is this love ?  Why people like Ramakrishna paramahamsa,  Papaji were mad after their chosen deities?  Why I am not getting that love?

How that love was expressed by Manikkavasagar towards Shiva?

Why Every jnani sheds tears on such intense bhakthi stories?

How and why the Alwars and Nayanmars who uplifted their chosen deity's love at the expense of the toher deities are held in high esteem?

What is that I am missing after reading all those stories?

How Meera bhai and Andaal were mad after Krishna?  What is it that tukaram,  vittobha,  sant jnaneswar found in that intense longing and love?

Why is that Abhirami patter shed tears on Devi while my heart is like a stone always doubting God's love?

How saradamma got that intense love towards her Guru? 

How Krishnabhai and Papa Ramdas got that intense love and faith on Lord Rama?

And finally why inspite of all these jnanis adoring Shiva and Krishna,  Buddha totally neglected them?  Did not he find any worth in the path of lvoe and devotion to Shiva?  I dont know why,  but I unknowingly expect a acknowledgement stamp from Buddha for these Gods.

I am thrown into more desparateness of my own state ,  seeing all these great men loving God.


Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2012, 02:21:27 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Forget the god or guru for the time being.  As you are aware, there are four important relationships in one's life:

a. As child, he or she loves his/her mother / father. - Matrubhava and Pitrubhava.  The child's love for mother is pure
love. In a festival crowd, when the child misses his mother,  she starts crying.  Even as a still younger baby, the baby
would not go to any newcomer and often goes back to mother. It means love on the one said and feeling secure on the
other side.

2. The second is putra or putri bhava. The mother shows the same affection to her child. For nothing, she calls him - oh,
my raja, my pearl, my flower, my nectar.  She takes care of the child while it is sick or hungry. When the child suffers from
chicken pox (those days) the Mother used to take bath both morning and evening and always caresses the child with neem
leaves. She prays to all gods for the child's safety and restoration to health. She spends sleepless nights.
She cries before god.

3. The third is sneha bahva - a friend is always a good companion. You can take liberties with him, even those liberties that
you cannot take with your mother or father or even brothers.  The friendship of college /school days are continued through
letter writing (nowadays Face book). A friend has special love and place in one's life.

4. The fourth is Nayaki-Nayaka bhava. One can easily understand the love between a lady love and her lover or vice versa.
It can be for sex in the beginning but it can blossom into a pure love for love's sake.

Now, God can be loved in any one of the bhavas. Guru can be loved in the first three bhavas.  Initially it will be bhaya bhakti.
devotion with fear and respect. Later fear goes and only love remains. As love matures it becomes para-bhakti or parama prema,
where one sheds tears, cries and asks for union.

Sri Ramakrishna saw Kali as Mother and he as a child.

Sri Manikkavachagar and Sri Andal saw Siva/Ranganatha as lover. In fact Manikkavachagar's case it is more difficult because he
was biologically a male.

Sri Jnana Sambandha saw Siva as his Father and Uma as his Mother, in Sirkazhi.           

Sri Sundaramurti saw Siva as a good friend.

Kulasekhara Azhwar also saw Vishnu as a lover.

Periyazhwar saw Ranganatha as a son who became his son in law!

Sri Bhagavan found Arunachala as Father, Mother, lover and friend - this is clear from various verses in Stuti Panchakam.

All human relationships get reflected in god intoxication, thinking always about God with tears rolling down from eyes. Tears
are genuine. In human life only laughter can be artificial, but not tears.  The cinema actresses, for crying need glycerine. So one
cannot cry unless it is natural exhibition of love or compassion.   

How to treat the God?  First, use one of the above four relationships. It will progress surely but slowly.

Arunachala Siva.


Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 05:56:25 PM »
Krishnan, Subramanian Sir, Friends

Here is a Kabir's doha:

Peeya chahe prem ras, raakha chaahe maan*.
Ek myaan me do khaDg, dekha suna na kaan.

You want to drink the wine of Love and want to keep your self-identity too, which is not possible. I have never heard two swords being kept in one sheath

keeping self-identity and drinking the wine of love are impossible in the similar way. Maan is not similar to respect, but it denotes to the rights a Beloved gets when he knows how much his lover loves him. He is so much loved that what ever he will ask, the lover will grant out of the love he has for the Beloved, but still all things granted in such a way are not a substitute of Love.

Pure love is not something that is to be got. It is already there, by default, just that it is covered by our ideas and other dirt. Recognise the barriers and break open them and allow yourself to be vulnerable before the Mother of the Universe.

Just proper discernment is necessary. You are not different from all those great saints you have quoted. When you truly see your God, even a fraction of her, you are killed that very moment. Where is place for 'you' in her?

Ssalutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 06:24:06 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 07:26:15 PM »
Dear Nagaraj, Krishnan,

Even acute love or passion or sexual impulses towards a woman or even a harlot, can turn into love for god. There are
three examples in saints' lives. In Tamizh Arunagiri Natha, he was a womanizer and when his sister one day told him that
she had no money to give to him, but still if he wanted a woman's pleasure, you can use my body!  This shocked Arunagiri Natha
and he turned his love towards Muruga.  Another is Bhilwa Mangal, in Malayalam. He wanted to enjoy pleasure with a harlot.he crossed
the stream keeping a ride on a crocodile and climbed the upstairs of the harlot's house by holding on to a hanging serpent!
The harlot saw this and was horrified. She said: Why not turn your love to Krishna? Why do you want this body? Krishna is Atman
and what is dearer to one than Atma?  This opened Bhilva Mangal's eyes and he turned into a Krishna Bhakta and composed the
famous  Krishna Karnamritam in Sanskrit.  The third is Pothana in Telugu. I do not know his full story. But he was a womanizer who
turned into a great devotee of God.

Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2012, 07:02:44 AM »
Dear Subramanian Sir, Krishnan,

It is interesting to know about Sri Tulsidas as well in this regard:

Tulsidas’s life story itself is a very well known and celebrated tale. He became an orphan at a very young age, and spent much time as a homeless wanderer. One day a sage gave him an image of Lord Rama and told him to make his home the holy name of Rama. Some local pandits believed that he had stolen the image and were angry with him, forcing him to flee. While fleeing the wrath of the locallers, a learned wondering Brahmin, named Guru Narahari Das protects Tulsidas and invited him to come live at his ashram on the banks of the river Ganga.

There Tulsidas began his extensive religious learning and soon excelled. He was an ardent devotee of Lord Rama and promised that he would make the story of Rama and Sita accessible in the common tongue of the people. Tulsidas left his ashram, with the blessings of his Guru and protector, and continued his study in Varanasi. He became one of the most learned and widely respected young men in the land.

In time, he married a wise and beautiful lady by the name of Ratnavali. After a time, however, Tulsidas becomes so infatuated with his beautiful wife he could hardly think about anything else! Even in meditation, his mind rested not on Ram, but on his wife’s lovely form. Ratnavali herself is a great devotee of Ram was upset by this. One day she went to her brother’s house for a length of time. Tulsidas could not bear any separation from his wife began to go mad.


One night he decided he just had to see her, even though there was a violent storm going on. On his way he tried to cross a river, he is swept along in a fierce flood. Catching hold of a log, he manages to struggle ashore. Barely surviving the journey to Ratnavali’s brother’s house, Tulsidas climbs a rope onto her balcony. She is so shocked to see him there. A girl today would be pleased at such romance, but Ratnavali was disgusted. Ratnavali implores Tulsidas to focus his love not on her but on the Lord.

She said that if you let your peace of mind rest of Rama rather than on my body which is just after all a modification of flesh and fat which will soon go old then you might actually the peace of mind that you apparently are so learned in.

Her words hit Tulsidas like a Thunder. With these words, Tulsidas realizes that in his mad infatuation for his wife, he has indeed forsaken Rama. Tulsidas left home and took to a life trying to spread spiritual values amongst the people. He fulfilled his childhood promise of making the story of Rama and Sita available to the people in the common tongue. He traveled through North India, spending long periods of time in Varanasi and Ayodhya. It is believed he had mystic communion with Hanuman, who led him to Rama. His works have had such an effect of the lives of the people that it is difficult to describe. As Ram Chandra Prasad, who translated the Ramcharitmanas into English has said of Tulsidas “To many of his readers in India he has been a lamp of guidance, a star of good fortune shining from the horizons of shining from the horizons of humankind, and a fountain of life for such as lie buried in the muir of ignorance and delusion. To those who find themselves wandering in the wasteland of their defilements and sins he has been a clear, sacred spring of perfections, a strong citadel of faith in the graciousness of God, and an impregnable sanctuary of love and peace for the sorely distressed.”



Another instance is that of Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra:

Sadasiva Brahmendra lived in a village near Trichy, on the banks of Kaveri River. His father was a Vaishnavite and his mother was a worshipper of Siva. Hence his parents named him Sivaramakrishnan. He became Sadasiva Brahmendra when he took to the life of an ascetic. He was married when he was 12, his bride being just 5. When Siva’s wife came of age, the day for his nuptials was fixed. That afternoon Siva was feeling hungry and went to the kitchen. His mother-in-law cried from within, ‘Do not enter, stay there’. (with intention of madi acharams I presume, Cleanliness aspect)The young boy, who was deeply religious, interpreted it as ‘do not enter grihastasram’ and took this as a cue to renounce family life. He left his house and started wandering, always in a state of trance. Once, when he was standing in Kaveri River and meditating, he was swept by floods. People on the banks saw him go under and concluded that he was drowned. A few days later, when some farmers were digging on the river bank, they discovered Sadasiva buried, but alive and in a trance. Sadasiva Brahmendra was a great yogi and a believer in Adhvaita philosophy.

(Internet Sources)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Anand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Anand
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 07:36:53 PM »
Dear friends,
In this context , please also read SivaBhaktavilasam published by Sri Ramanashramam wherein Bhagavan has extracted from Sanskrit sources ,stories of the 63 Nayanmars not available in Periya Puranam .
Each story is deeply moving .
Regards,
Anand.
Sundaram Anand

Anand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Anand
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 07:38:40 PM »
Dear friends,
If  someone could suggest me some other good moving book in English on divine leelas of Lord Siva I will be most grateful.
Thanks,
Anand.
Sundaram Anand

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 09:56:53 AM »
Dear Anand Sundaram,

Arunachala Puranam is itself a good book to know about Siva Leelas.  This is going to be shortly published in English,
by Robert Butler.  Some chapters are available in Mountain Path issues of 2012. The full book is yet to come. Another
great book is Tiruvilaiyadal Puranam, the 64 holy sports of  Siva in Madurai. But I am not sure whether any English rendering
is available. Refer to www.Shaivam.com.

Arunachala Siva.     
 

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: what is this love of God that so many jnanis got intoxicated with
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 04:41:05 PM »
Dear Anand Sundaram,

There is of course the Madhura Bhakthi leelas of Gopikas and Krishna Kanhaiyya.

The stories of Gopis is unparalleled. It is this Madhura Bhakthi that got Sri Chaitanya Maha Prabhu intoxicated in ecstasy. Joy Inexplicable! No worries about Jnana, Advaita, Dvaita, Visishtadvaita, realisation, all else, Just Lord and just the Lord alone, Balakrishna!



Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 04:43:03 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta