Author Topic: Seek moderation in all  (Read 3085 times)

Nagaraj

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Seek moderation in all
« on: February 24, 2012, 03:34:48 PM »
Dear friends,

Thoughts are not our impediments. If we can accept it. do not treat the thoughts as some outcaste, as something filthy, as something bad, as some defect. Thoughts are absolutely harmless, no matter what they show.

We should not also worry about memories, Memories are there, but what harm are they going to do? if one gets memories of ones grandfather, do not resist them. They are all beautiful, be all accepting. do not resist anything.

If one wants to smoke and one wants to stop smoking, the way is not to resist smoking, but investigate, and one will find that through smoking one is trying to feed oneself some inadequate food nutrient.

Most health problems and bad habits only originiate from our food habits. So by fixing our food properly, we can over come many impediments to meditation. Like food, lust, etc... can be over come.

Instead, correct your food habits and your will find yourself much better off, and consciously you will be able to quit smoking, ofcourse with some wisdom.

Similalry, the lust problems too, one gets lust because of imbalance in hormones, because of lack of proper nutrients. Hence the body tries to fulfil its needs, its fuel through one of the 5 stimulis ie. senses.

Body is super intelligent. Lets not corrupt that with our ideas. Allow the body to function.

Seek moderation in all, do not try extreme things. do not wish to be like this, like that.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 04:57:55 PM »

Of course, Sri Bhagavan mentioned only moderation in food, i.,e. Sattvic food. But as Nagaraj said moderation in everything
is good to over come our dependence on them.

Arunachala Siva.

swayam

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 09:15:11 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Dear Nagaraj


Thoughts are not our impediments. If we can accept it. do not treat the thoughts as some outcaste, as something filthy, as something bad, as some defect. Thoughts are absolutely harmless, no matter what they show.


Thoughts turn into actions isnt't it. So one must keep tab on them. So Iam not able to understand when  you say - "they are harmless".
I think they are harmful if not checked.

Below statement is wonderful,- "investigate", true 

Quote
If one wants to smoke and one wants to stop smoking, the way is not to resist smoking, but investigate, and one will find that through smoking one is trying to feed oneself some inadequate food nutrient.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Nagaraj

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 09:26:24 PM »
Dear Swayam,

Thoughts are not the ones to be checked, it is oneself, who is to be checked, and you got to know it through your thoughts. So look at the thoughts objectfully and not as something dangerous! Thought is helping you know yourself. Thoughts are open windows onto oneself.

Thoughts become action only if you will for it. Thoughts themselves don't become actions.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 09:58:12 PM »
Quote
Thoughts are open windows onto oneself.

To which self? You mean ego I suppose? And what about doubts? How to deal with them? Doubts cannot be rejected easily. Sometimes it's impossible. If you resolve one doubt, another appear. My question which is important for all of us: Can thoughts be controlled? Can I train to dissolve some kind of thoughts and to cultivate another?
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Nagaraj

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 10:08:39 PM »
Dear Ramana,

Just contemplate and see, whether ego is different from Self. Forget all about Self and Non Self, Ego and Self etc... there is only one self, be it pure or impure. There can be no two selves at any time.

Bhagavan has said about doubts -

"There is no use removing doubts. If we clear one doubt another arises, and there will be no end of doubts. All doubts will cease only when the doubter and his source have been found. Seek for the source of the doubter, and you will find that he is really non-existent. Doubter ceasing, doubts will cease."

Thoughts can never be controlled, only you can control yourself, by proper discernment. But, firstly, before even we look in to this, why and what do you want to control?

But Ramana, before you even proceed, you should enquire what is your entire motive? why do you want to control, what do you want to control? WHat kind of thoughts you want to dissolve and what thoughts you want to cultivate? what result you aspire to achieve by controlling your thoughts?

Again, get into the roots, what is it that you want really? then lets look in to the rest. what is really troubling you?

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 10:13:32 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 10:21:58 PM »
I will try to give you example to show you my point.

If I get angry with some category of people, for example - murderers, and I think "You deserve to be in jail for the rest of your life" or things like that can my attitude and thoughts to change? Or if I have intrusive thoughts - for example during concentration on a pencil I become to think about a candle - can the mind stop thinking about the candle and to start thinking about the pencil? Can we change to become what Lord Jesus, Lord Krishna or Lord Shiva teach us - to love everyone, to not get angry and so on?
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Nagaraj

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 10:50:25 PM »
In your example, the thoughts conveyed or brought to your notice the emotions that is running within you. Now, if you felt that murderers deserve to be in jail, your thoughts just reflect what is within you. You are asking why you are not able to remain calm and that you don't like yourself wanting the murderers to be jailed, is it not?

It is absolutely very normal to have felt that the murderer has to be jailed. But, if this is affecting you, and you find yourself suffering from the thoughts of the murderer, remember what Krishna said to Arjuna? that nobody really dies, neither does one kill anybody or anybody dies. Before you can sort out this query of yours, it is good if you really contemplate on the Gita verse. Remember Jesus, when he was crucified, he forgave the crucifiers. How could he have? what  differently he has seen it?

The way to win over your emotions is simply looking and acknowledging your feelings. As and when the thoughts of high emotions come about, just empathize with the aggrieved, the more and more you empathize you are neutralizing your own emotions and your feelings subside, but instead, if one gets carried away by such high emotions, without any objectivity, you are bound to suffer. Further, trust the cosmic law, after some incident, there is no point in contemplating why it had to happen, therefore, come to terms that everybody has to die some day or the other, and understand that the murderer has only become a tool or instrument for the aggrieved persons death. Discern every aspect of your feelings in the full, do not get carried away by what you thoughts have to present to you. Remember thoughts are only information, it is only conveying your feelings in words. So sort out your own self like this.

Wait for the time to pass before you conclude anything. When the water is hot, you cant touch it, allow the water to cool and then you can touch it and drink it. So whenever you are carried away by high emotions, just allow yourself to relax, be conscious not to react or act blindly on what your thought are conveying to you. Just relax and then take your time off in solitude and sort out the matter. It should be clear once and for all. 

If once, if you properly sort out yourself properly, once, then the next time, you will find that you are not much disturbed by any such stray instances much. And, the next time, when you face such instances, you will find your thoughts just conveying your entire discernment to you as properly discerned as above and you will not be carried away by emotions, you will be at calm.

if you concentrate on some object, naturally you will be bored, because, it is a concentration without genuine motive, the body will not co operate, why would you want to concentrate on pencil and candle. But If the object is concentration, and not the object of concentration, then it should not be of much problem when pencil became a candle. Just take it as the same God in two different forms. First you concentrate on Jesus, then Jesus became Krishna. This will be easy, the more you discern that there is absolutely no difference between Pencil and Candle, Krishna, Jesus, Shiva, Bhagavan.

And, remember not to be harsh on yourself.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 11:03:37 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 11:12:08 PM »
It is said that when Buddha was sitting silently, many wars were fought between various provinces here and there. When his disciples came and presented to him about the deaths of thousands of soldiers, he listened to the news in silence. Buddha surely empathized with them. A realised persons heart is thousands of times more tender than us.

Many of the devotees sarcastically spoke of Bhagavan that here is one yogi who is sitting in silence when thousands of people were dying for the country in freedom struggle.

Does not the Jnani know about all these? Does not the Jnani feel for the deaths? He does? But He does so with knowledge. Because he knows it all. All are Atma, the Soul.

Crying of feeling sorry, is not bad, Bhagavan cried at the death of Lakshmi the cow, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa cried very frequently.

But only difference is that they don't have enmity with the killers. They don't have any hate feelings on the killers too. Because they realise that the ignorant ones are killing only because of avidya. empathize with the aggrieved and sympathize with the sinners.

Because, we see killers and killed separately, we are constantly troubled by dualities. But for a Jnani there is only one soul. It is the same soul in the killed and the killer, so there is no difference. Know that He is a spirit. Him the sword cannot pierce; him the fire cannot burn; him the water cannot melt; him the air cannot dry. The Hindu believes that every soul is a circle whose circumference is nowhere, but whose center is located in the body, and that death means the change of this center from body to body.

Knowing this, properly all your agitations will be put to rest permanently. There will be no reason for any agitation. Whenever some instances occur, your thought will reflect your inner Self which is in poise with the above discernments.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 11:19:42 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2012, 12:11:29 AM »
Dear Ramana,

After writing you at large, I knew I had missed out something, I was in contemplation about the questions you had asked. It then struck me this -

Where are these questions when are are asleep? When you are in deep sleep, where are these agitations, feelings, thoughts, etc...

There is absolutely nothing in your sleep. When ever you gt any such questions, ask yourself, why I don't have any questions in deep sleep.

Therefore, keep reminding yourself often than all this is only dream, because, dreams appear real, but upon waking, you realise that it was only a dream.

All this is unreal. our questions, worry, query, are all only dream.

Bhagavan has said - There is no difference between the dream and the waking state except that the dream is short and the waking long. Both are the result of the mind. Our real state is beyond the waking, dream and sleep states, called turiya.

So keep reminding yourself, along with the previous discernments as well that all this is only dream.

When the ripples have calmed down, ie when the agitations of self is calmed down, then remain in the nature of your self, ie peace. In that calm state of yours, you will know all the agitations of yours were needless.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 12:17:21 AM »
Thank you, Nagaraj. I have always wondered why jnanis show feelings when their ego is gone? Why they anger or cry? Why when they see God (Self) everywhere?
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Nagaraj

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 12:31:13 AM »
That they cry or get angry, only we say! It is only we, who decide who a jnani is! it is only we, who decide that a jnani sees self everywhere. Even if jnani answers something, it is again we, who understand what jnanis says by our own understanding.

It is therefore, good to stop looking at some external jnani and look within. What we see of jnani is also made by us. It is we who decide who a jnani is. is it not? in the end?

Or why not we ask like this? if jnani sees jnani everywhere, where is a need to even pass on some upadesa to anybody? aren't everybody a jnani?

The point is to realise that after some point, the jnani too is external and so long we see a jnani different from ourselves, it is bound to cause confusion. Such an external Jnani is as unreal as dream.

Therefore wake up, ask again, where were these jnanis in sleep, all the ideas of a jnani too are dream, unreal. The Jnani you are seeing is only a dream.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 12:40:43 AM »
You are right, Sri Nagaraj! Thank you! Tomorrow we will continue the conversation. :)
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Nagaraj

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Re: Seek moderation in all
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 09:21:15 AM »
Dear Ramana, friends,

Unknowingly we delve in either past or future only and put all our attention only on them.

One way is, as and when one is presented with any of the above, viz., past or future, just segregate it as, this is past, it has already occurred, let me not worry about it, or, this is something about future, let me not worry about it. This way, one remains aware and does not delve in past or future.

Thoughts always present either past or future alone. Thought are incapable of presenting to you the present. Remember this as a golden rule.


Ramana, all the above discussions yesterday, apart, this approach holds good and is best and simple, for the queries you had raised.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 09:25:53 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta