Author Topic: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi  (Read 6135 times)

ksksat27

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dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« on: February 21, 2012, 02:03:57 AM »
Dying in Kaashi is said to gurantee liberation.

Off late,   the great Paramahamsa Ramakrishna Thakur in the 19th century went to Kashi.  He has stated that he directly saw paravati-parameshwara in a vision whereby they appear before every creature that dies in Kashi,  and grant them liberation.

I have elsewhere also read that there were even in 20th century,  some dying choultries where old people come and stay in a desire to breath last in kaashi. 

Please tell your views on dying in Arunachala.   If one thinks of arunachala always,  it gives liberation.  But what about dying in arunachala?  All interpretations,  arguments , quotations are welcome.

But the kaashi episode with Ramakrishna Parmahamsa has actually made it very very applicable in our times itself.  Perhaps the best short cut is to arrive at kaashi and die.   Given a chance, I prefer that.

My grand father's brother lived in Kaashi for 12 full years and performed many austerities and worship.  But he could not breath his last in kaashi.  At the same time one of his distant relative and friend,  who  was not all interested much in religious matters,  suddenly thought and planned a trip to kaashi.  And he indeed died in kaashi in that short tour span.  Very lucky man indeed.

Nagaraj

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 09:47:08 AM »
Talk 18 recorded in 1935:

Devotee: Is there any psychic effect in visiting sacred places like Mt. Kailas, Benares, etc.?
Ramana: Yes.
Devotee: Is there any benefit accruing by dying in Benares?
Ramana: Yes, the meaning will be clear if the real Benares and real dying be understood.
Devotee: You mean that they are in the Self?
Ramana: Yes.
Devotee: There are six centres in the body and there are corresponding centres in the world.
Ramana: Yes. What is in the world is in the body; and what is in the body is in the world also.
Devotee: Is the sacredness of Benares a matter of faith, or is it externally also real?
Ramana: Both.

In another talk, Talk 473

Someone remarked: It is said that they get mukti (liberation) unasked who live or die within a radius of 30 miles round Arunachala. It is also admitted that only by jnana is liberation obtained. The purana also remarks that Vedanta Vijnana is difficult to get. So mukti is difficult. But life or death round about the Hill bestows mukti so easily. How can it be?

Ramana: Siva says, “By My command.” Those who live here need no initiation (diksha) etc., but get mukti. Such is the command of Siva.

Devotee: The purana also says that those who are born here are Siva’s group of followers, such as ghosts, spirits, disembodied beings, etc.

Ramana: So it is said of other kshetras as well, e.g., Tiruvarur, Chidambaram.

Devotee: How does mere life or death here confer mukti(liberation)? It is difficult to understand.

Ramana: (quotes a Sanskrit verse) Darsanad Abhrasadasi jananat Kamalalaye, Kasyantu maranam muktih smaranad Arunachale.

(and then gives the meaning of the Sanskrit verse) “To see Chidambaram, to be born in Tiruvarur, to die in Benares, or merely to think of Arunachala, is to be assured of Liberation.” Jananat Kamalalaye means “by being born in Kamalalaya”. What is it? It is the Heart (This is very important, Being born in the heart, therefore blindly following, or blindly dying or blindly seein is not going to confer any moksha, one should have darshan in ones own heart, that is the birth to Moksha. Seeing, going, thinking is nothing but having the darshanam of our Self in heart as the heart).  Similarly, Abhrasadasi – Seat of Consciousness.  Again, Kasi is the Light of Realisation. Remembering Arunachala completes the verse. It must also be understood in the same sense.

Devotee: So bhakti(devotion) is necessary.

Ramana: Everything depends on the outlook. One sees that all born in Tiruvarur, or visiting Chidambaram, or dying in Banares, or contemplating Arunachala, are muktas.

Devotee: I think of Arunachala, but still I am not a mukta.

Ramana: Change of outlook is all that is necessary. See what such a change did for Arjuna.  He had the vision of the Cosmic Self. Sri Krishna says: “Gods and saints are eager to see my Cosmic Form. I have not fulfilled their desire. Yet I endow divine sight by which you can see that Form.”  Well, having said so, does He show what He is?  No. He asks Arjuna to see in Him all that he desires to see. If that were His real form it must be changeless and known for what it is worth. Instead, Arjuna is commanded to see whatever he desires.  So where is the Cosmic Form? It must be in Arjuna.

Furthermore, Arjuna finds Gods and saints in that form and they are praising the Lord. If the form be withheld from the Gods and saints as said by Krishna, who are they of Arjuna’s vision?

Devotee: They must be in his imagination.

Ramana: They are there because of Arjuna’s outlook.

Devotee: Then the outlook must be changed by God’s Grace.

Ramana: Yes. That happens to bhaktas (devotees)

Ramana Maharshi, while affirming the sanctity of the holy places, stresses that the inner truths of the verses must be understood, instead of relying on their purely literal or external interpretation.  He suggests that a change in the outlook, which can come through devotion, Divine Grace and realization, is required before one can attain liberation.

-----

there is no doubt, these places have some physic benefits, but, if one has not yet overcome ones vasanas, he is still to be born again, perhaps a higher birth. Somehow these places wil be instrumental in ones moksha now or tomorrow. 

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:00:58 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 01:01:16 PM »
Dear krishnan,

Dying in Kasi - it is said in Puranas. But it does not happen in all cases. People visit Kasi and come back and live for another
20 or 30 years!

Sri Bhagavan explains this beautifully in Talks No. 473:

Darsnada Abhrasadasi Jannnat Kamalalye |
Kasyantu maranam smranad Arunchale  || 

Abhrasadasi - Seat of Consciousness - Abhara is Chidambaram. What is seeing Chidambaram? It is nothing but seeing
the Consciousness in Heart. Chidambaram is nothing but Hall of Consciousness.

Jnanat Kamalalayam = Kamalalayam may mean both Tiruvarur and also the Lotus of Heart. All are born in Heart center.
Only then the mind jumps out. One should not make the mind jump out. Then mukti is assured.

Kasyantu mukti = to make the mind or ego in Kasi (Light of Realization) is also mukti.

Smaranad Arunachale = the meaning is obvious. Arunachala is Atma. One should always think of Arunachalam to attain
eradication of ego and attain mukti.  See also Verse 1 of Aksharamamalai.

       
Arunachala Siva,   

Anand

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 08:30:11 PM »
We may not have the good fortune of dying in Thiruvannamalai.We can only hope that we think maximum of Arunachala and witha bit of luck have a thought of Arunachala on our minds at the time of death .
This I hope should give us either birth in Arunachala as a human being  or as a pyschic entity .I would rather prefer being in holy communion with Arunachala and listening to the sagas of Lord Siva for eternity ,rather than the bliss of immortality .
Regards,
Anand.
Sundaram Anand

Subramanian.R

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 01:00:08 PM »
Dear Ananda Sundaram,

Once during my visit to Tiruvannamalai one gentleman emotional talked to me and he said: Even to come to Sri Ramanasramam
we should have made punyas in previous births. And we might have been the lice on the head of the monkeys that have been
caressed by Sri Bhagavan.  How true, so it may sound emotion-filled.

One another lady said to my wife: I am not sure whether I could attain mukti. But if Sri Bhagavan wills it, I shall be born at least
as one of the plants or trees in the Asramam directly opposite Sri Ramaneswara Maha Lingam. My wife was quite moved by her
statement.

Saint Tiru Navukkarasar says in one of his verses: Even if I get again and again a birth of a human, it does not matter. I should
be seeing your dancing eyebrows, red lips, a small smile in your face, the matted locks with Ganga oozing, and a white form with
vibhuti smeared all over the body, and your curved dancing legs in each birth!  Kunitha puruvamum kovvai chevvaiyum kumin chirippum,
panitha jadaiyum, pavalam pol meniyil paal veennirum, initham udyaia eduttha narpadamum.......

In another verse, one of the saints says: Even if am born as a worm, I should not forget your dancing legs....Puzhuvaai pirakkinum
punniya unnadi vazhuvathu irukkum manam......


Arunachala Siva.           

ksksat27

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2012, 07:59:01 AM »
Talk 18 recorded in 1935:

Devotee: Is there any psychic effect in visiting sacred places like Mt. Kailas, Benares, etc.?
Ramana: Yes.
Devotee: Is there any benefit accruing by dying in Benares?
Ramana: Yes, the meaning will be clear if the real Benares and real dying be understood.
Devotee: You mean that they are in the Self?
Ramana: Yes.
Devotee: There are six centres in the body and there are corresponding centres in the world.
Ramana: Yes. What is in the world is in the body; and what is in the body is in the world also.
Devotee: Is the sacredness of Benares a matter of faith, or is it externally also real?
Ramana: Both.

In another talk, Talk 473

Someone remarked: It is said that they get mukti (liberation) unasked who live or die within a radius of 30 miles round Arunachala. It is also admitted that only by jnana is liberation obtained. The purana also remarks that Vedanta Vijnana is difficult to get. So mukti is difficult. But life or death round about the Hill bestows mukti so easily. How can it be?

Ramana: Siva says, “By My command.” Those who live here need no initiation (diksha) etc., but get mukti. Such is the command of Siva.

Devotee: The purana also says that those who are born here are Siva’s group of followers, such as ghosts, spirits, disembodied beings, etc.

Ramana: So it is said of other kshetras as well, e.g., Tiruvarur, Chidambaram.

Devotee: How does mere life or death here confer mukti(liberation)? It is difficult to understand.

Ramana: (quotes a Sanskrit verse) Darsanad Abhrasadasi jananat Kamalalaye, Kasyantu maranam muktih smaranad Arunachale.

(and then gives the meaning of the Sanskrit verse) “To see Chidambaram, to be born in Tiruvarur, to die in Benares, or merely to think of Arunachala, is to be assured of Liberation.” Jananat Kamalalaye means “by being born in Kamalalaya”. What is it? It is the Heart (This is very important, Being born in the heart, therefore blindly following, or blindly dying or blindly seein is not going to confer any moksha, one should have darshan in ones own heart, that is the birth to Moksha. Seeing, going, thinking is nothing but having the darshanam of our Self in heart as the heart).  Similarly, Abhrasadasi – Seat of Consciousness.  Again, Kasi is the Light of Realisation. Remembering Arunachala completes the verse. It must also be understood in the same sense.

Devotee: So bhakti(devotion) is necessary.

Ramana: Everything depends on the outlook. One sees that all born in Tiruvarur, or visiting Chidambaram, or dying in Banares, or contemplating Arunachala, are muktas.

Devotee: I think of Arunachala, but still I am not a mukta.

Ramana: Change of outlook is all that is necessary. See what such a change did for Arjuna.  He had the vision of the Cosmic Self. Sri Krishna says: “Gods and saints are eager to see my Cosmic Form. I have not fulfilled their desire. Yet I endow divine sight by which you can see that Form.”  Well, having said so, does He show what He is?  No. He asks Arjuna to see in Him all that he desires to see. If that were His real form it must be changeless and known for what it is worth. Instead, Arjuna is commanded to see whatever he desires.  So where is the Cosmic Form? It must be in Arjuna.

Furthermore, Arjuna finds Gods and saints in that form and they are praising the Lord. If the form be withheld from the Gods and saints as said by Krishna, who are they of Arjuna’s vision?

Devotee: They must be in his imagination.

Ramana: They are there because of Arjuna’s outlook.

Devotee: Then the outlook must be changed by God’s Grace.

Ramana: Yes. That happens to bhaktas (devotees)

Ramana Maharshi, while affirming the sanctity of the holy places, stresses that the inner truths of the verses must be understood, instead of relying on their purely literal or external interpretation.  He suggests that a change in the outlook, which can come through devotion, Divine Grace and realization, is required before one can attain liberation.

-----

there is no doubt, these places have some physic benefits, but, if one has not yet overcome ones vasanas, he is still to be born again, perhaps a higher birth. Somehow these places wil be instrumental in ones moksha now or tomorrow. 

Salutations to Bhagavan







I am pasting the same reply in this thread also.   



Actually  we cannot simply say that the Mukthi sthalas described in scriputes are mere symbolic representation and that jnana alone confers liberation.

There seems to be some mysterious power ,  the power is operating only if someone believes the particular benefit of a holy place.

For instance,  dying in kashi guarantees liberation.  This is confirmed time and again,  eye to eye witness in our recent times being  Ramakrishna Paramahamasa when he visited Kashi.  He says that he saw with his physical eyes,  parvathi -- parameshwara granting liberation to anyone and everyone dying in kashi.

But from what I guess,  Ishwara may add an impediment to this , that impediment is that , if we dont take that statement with full faith and conviction.   If we ourselves,  come to the conclusion that "no it is not quite possible",   then Ishwara may not give away that great liberation that easily.

Otherwise,  I personally believe,  those who has full faith and conviction in the statement of the scripture ,  and also those  who has not even heard of such a mechanism and innocently did not either believe or disbelieve,  both these categories will get liberated in Kashi by dying.  And let us not miss that oppurtunity  by adding our limited 'intelect' interpretation,  thereby falling into a rejected category.

The words of a great being like Paramahamsa Ramakrishna acknowleding the great benefit of Kashi cannot be otherwise conditional.  So let us not qualify,  add our own condition.

Sarada devi the wife of Ramakarishna Paramahamsa also says that God sometimes grant liberation just like that,  because  it is something already there and by His will,  he can always choose to end a jiva's samsara for no reason at all.



Kashi is definitely one such place --  where beyond doubt,  many scriptures,  many religions regard it as Holy.  It is important in buddhism and janism also.   Even the staunch vaishnavas,  who otherwise dont accept Shiva,  even they interpret like Shiva gives rama mantra upadesa to jivas dying in Kashi thereby granting them liberation.  So there is something to it,  let us not make Ishwara double think this 'easy' path  by our limited intellect interpretation.


Subramanian.R

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2012, 01:20:48 PM »
Dear Krishnan, Nagaraj,

Ultimately one has to take the esoteric sense in which Sri Bhagavan explained the 'taking birth, seeing, dying and remembering'
to solve all confusions. 'Kasyantu maranam' - Sri Bhagavan explains: Dying in the Light of Realization. Jananat Kamalalaye' - to be born
in Heart. darsanad abhrasadasi - seeing the Seat of Consciousness. smaranad arunachala - remembering Arunachala or even Heart or
Atma.

Arunachala = Heart = Atma.

Now this explanation of Sri Bhagavan in Talks No. 473 answers even the question of dying anywhere outside India too!

Wolter Kiers died in his drawing room one evening, after prostrating to Sri Bhagavan's photo.

Mouni Sadhu died in his toilet while thinking of Sri Bhagavan.

Remembering the Heart or Light of Realization or Seat of Consciousness is the most important thing.
 

Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2012, 05:59:05 PM »
Dear Krishnan, Friends,

Please Refer this Post

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6896.msg25169#msg25169

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2012, 06:22:03 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Kasi Panchakam of Sri Sankara is delightful with a lot of inner purport.  Only one who sees Kasi (the seat of consciousness)
can really enjoy Kasi.  For others it is a routine pilgrim trip. Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman used to explain this beautifully.
He even refers what is manikarnika what is Viswanatha etc., in that Satsangh.

Arunachala Siva.