Author Topic: Musings...  (Read 1368 times)

Nagaraj

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Musings...
« on: February 05, 2012, 10:51:45 AM »
This post was prompted by a simple question asked by Swayam in the topic http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6418.msg24676#msg24676 and the responses thereof. On some contemplation, i came about with my musings as follows -

Knowledge alone relieves. Stopping a thought process ain't going to help really! We could use all our manly efforts with deep fervor to stop some thought pattern without really understanding it, but, eventually, we will only cause damage to ourselves.

The way to go about is proper scrutinisation and proper understanding of everything. Krishna's famous revelation in the Bhagavad Gita, that we have right to only act and not on its fruits, and, that it is best to dedicate the fruits to God, is not some proverb or diktat. It ought to be properly understood and only then it makes sense. Otherwise, it becomes like what happened in Russia. The banned The Bhagavad Gita. I do not blame them. Their worry is true. They felt that Bhagavad Gita encourages fighting for Krishna asked Arjuna to fight  They are true, but we without properly understanding are blindly believing Krishna, Ramana, Ramakrishna without proper discernments.

There is no possibility of surrendering the fruits to God without proper understanding. It only amounts to blind belief and blind belief is not going to help in life. A person who wants to make millions of $ is better than a person who lives in a life of penury, who talks about spirituality and makes claims that one has right over only action and not its fruits, life is for only realization, etc… without really knowing what he is saying so. It is like a Sanyasi who thinks about world compared to a Gruhasta who things about Sanyasa!

Every thought has a cause. The cause is a desire to enjoy some fruits. Some notion, that, by doing something, we will be happy. Unless, we, by ourselves, properly understand the dynamics of thought process, we will never be able to be like Krishna or be like the famous verse of his - surrendering the fruits of action. We are merely repeating the words uttered by Krishna, Ramana, Ramakrishna, etc... But the fact is what they have said is not yet REAL in our case. For instance, we still derive happiness from the world more than the desire to realise the Self and we try to suppress ourselves out of happiness we are deriving just because Krishna has said so, or, Ramana has said so, or, just because scriptures says so. We go about and claim that everybody has to realise the Self. We all have shades of hypocracy in us. The reason is due to lack of proper discernment.

Bhagavan says, for every thought, there is this 'I' that is the substratum of all thoughts. He says, enquire where from this 'I' originates. Untill this is properly discerned, all these quotes about surrendering fruits to God, all is God, all remain mere book knowledge.
Now, if Krishna has said so, or, Ramana has said so, we believe that there is truth in it blindly, because of their stature. Yes they do have that stature, but that does not mean that we begin to blindly impose onto ourselves what they say without really understanding. Krishna has said so, so I should not expecting fruits for my actions, Ramana has said so, so I should enquire who am I. We all have to study, go to the basics, the roots and begin. I felt.

We ought to, (no other option) but to properly dedicate ourselves properly in understanding the scheme of things independently. Now, Krishna has said something, Ramana Maharshi has said something, Vedanta says something, now let me sit and scrutinise things myself independently and see for myself what really it is.

This is Tapas. One has to work out one’s own salvation. And, it is not going to help by just saying this moment, that, I surrender my fruits to God and resume our worldly duties. That is Unconscious surrendering of fruits, it is just like sleep, the world resumes once again after sleep! It remains as Karma still continues. Only proper understanding shall relieve one from all his Karmas.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Musings...
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 11:39:30 AM »
very nice explanation nagaraj garu,

Subramanian.R

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Re: Musings...
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 02:03:00 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Very nice. Thanks.

Arunachala Siva.

ksksat27

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Re: Musings...
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 09:09:52 AM »
This post was prompted by a simple question asked by Swayam in the topic http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6418.msg24676#msg24676 and the responses thereof. On some contemplation, i came about with my musings as follows -

Knowledge alone relieves. Stopping a thought process ain't going to help really! We could use all our manly efforts with deep fervor to stop some thought pattern without really understanding it, but, eventually, we will only cause damage to ourselves.

The way to go about is proper scrutinisation and proper understanding of everything. Krishna's famous revelation in the Bhagavad Gita, that we have right to only act and not on its fruits, and, that it is best to dedicate the fruits to God, is not some proverb or diktat. It ought to be properly understood and only then it makes sense. Otherwise, it becomes like what happened in Russia. The banned The Bhagavad Gita. I do not blame them. Their worry is true. They felt that Bhagavad Gita encourages fighting for Krishna asked Arjuna to fight  They are true, but we without properly understanding are blindly believing Krishna, Ramana, Ramakrishna without proper discernments.

There is no possibility of surrendering the fruits to God without proper understanding. It only amounts to blind belief and blind belief is not going to help in life. A person who wants to make millions of $ is better than a person who lives in a life of penury, who talks about spirituality and makes claims that one has right over only action and not its fruits, life is for only realization, etc… without really knowing what he is saying so. It is like a Sanyasi who thinks about world compared to a Gruhasta who things about Sanyasa!

Every thought has a cause. The cause is a desire to enjoy some fruits. Some notion, that, by doing something, we will be happy. Unless, we, by ourselves, properly understand the dynamics of thought process, we will never be able to be like Krishna or be like the famous verse of his - surrendering the fruits of action. We are merely repeating the words uttered by Krishna, Ramana, Ramakrishna, etc... But the fact is what they have said is not yet REAL in our case. For instance, we still derive happiness from the world more than the desire to realise the Self and we try to suppress ourselves out of happiness we are deriving just because Krishna has said so, or, Ramana has said so, or, just because scriptures says so. We go about and claim that everybody has to realise the Self. We all have shades of hypocracy in us. The reason is due to lack of proper discernment.

Bhagavan says, for every thought, there is this 'I' that is the substratum of all thoughts. He says, enquire where from this 'I' originates. Untill this is properly discerned, all these quotes about surrendering fruits to God, all is God, all remain mere book knowledge.
Now, if Krishna has said so, or, Ramana has said so, we believe that there is truth in it blindly, because of their stature. Yes they do have that stature, but that does not mean that we begin to blindly impose onto ourselves what they say without really understanding. Krishna has said so, so I should not expecting fruits for my actions, Ramana has said so, so I should enquire who am I. We all have to study, go to the basics, the roots and begin. I felt.

We ought to, (no other option) but to properly dedicate ourselves properly in understanding the scheme of things independently. Now, Krishna has said something, Ramana Maharshi has said something, Vedanta says something, now let me sit and scrutinise things myself independently and see for myself what really it is.

This is Tapas. One has to work out one’s own salvation. And, it is not going to help by just saying this moment, that, I surrender my fruits to God and resume our worldly duties. That is Unconscious surrendering of fruits, it is just like sleep, the world resumes once again after sleep! It remains as Karma still continues. Only proper understanding shall relieve one from all his Karmas.

Salutations to Bhagavan


Dear Nagaraj


Taking the liberty to type fast in a rough language.  Please dont mind.
It is all very confusing for me in your current post:

what do you mean by this line

"There is no possibility of surrendering the fruits to God without proper understanding. "

What understanding you mean here?  Intellectual understanding or final spiritual understanding ?


"Knowledge alone relieves. Stopping a thought process ain't going to help really!"

What is this again?  what is Knowledge?  Intellecutal knowledge never relieves anybody.  Stopping the flow of thoughts is very good for sadhana right?  Why that is not going to help?

Even giving away fruits of work one must start intellectually right?  How can one call Ishwara in person and then as a token of giving away fruits , give some apples or some betel leaves and say mantras? 

What is giving away of fruits?  It is and it has to start as an intellectual surrender only right?  Unfortunately all our sadhana  has to start in the alrady heated and confused brain only.  For a long time,  we continue doing brain sadhana only.

There is nothing wrong in whatsover way we are doing our so called sadhana.  In fact everything is wrong.  Only reason we are to do continuously is to give up all efforts and sit in a corner with 'summa iru' state. 

So what else I can do than merely repeating the words of great jnanis?  Let me tell from my experience,  no matter how many times I chant my Gurus name and bang my head against my wall of brain,  I cannot realise saradamma's state.  Yes world's mean lust pleasures still attract me more than anything else.  But atleast let me turn to these jnanis and observe all the time their external life and teachings.  Even though I understand or not,  let me write as some science theorum and again and again repeat it madly.

Let me l have shades of hypocracy . Let me not have proper discernment.  But in the deep corner of my heart,  I have developed a utter distaste and infact utter restlessness with my current state of affairs .  That deep corner makes me wander after my Guru and Ramana  -- my Guru's Guru's Guru.  So let that infintesimal spark remain as it is,  even if it does not melt antartica.






Nagaraj

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Re: Musings...
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 09:29:24 AM »
Dear Krishnan,

Please feel free to reject anything and accept what is relevant to your self, with the light that is guiding you.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta