Author Topic: Sati & Pativrata  (Read 2387 times)

Jyoti

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Sati & Pativrata
« on: February 03, 2012, 09:35:33 PM »
Why had widows to be burnt with their husbands in India?
Is the idea that a woman exists solely to serve her husband really found in the Vedas?
What did Bhagavan say about these subjects?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 04:23:38 PM »

Dear Jyoti,

How come you understand everything incorrectly?  The widowed wives voluntarily entered the funeral pyre since they
believed that it would give them salvation. But in course of time, when they were unwilling also and had desire to live,
they were forced to jump into the pyre. This is where the trouble started. However all these things are things of past.
Nowadays no wife after widowhood jumps into pyre. Either they live a spartan life and complete their life in the world
or if they are young, they remarry as in West. If there are children, they concentrated on rearing up the children.

Arunachala Siva. 

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 10:23:10 AM »
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!

Dear Jyoti,

Why had Christian fathers been burnt for their faith in the west? Is it being done nowadays too?

To my knowledge, Bhagavan does not answer such questions.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 01:10:19 PM »
Dear Sriswaroop,

I agree with you. Some of these practices were adopted in the ancient times with a purpose. But in course of time, the original
purpose is lost. Because the world is deteriorating.  The temple priests who are brahmins are smoking cigarettes and are eating
in non vegetarian food. Some Jesuit fathers have been caught up in the act of homosexuality. Recently one Swami N.  was videoed
having sex with a woman. 

Arunachala Siva.     

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 08:52:50 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!

Dear Subramanian ji,

Let me put a different view on the second part for your opinion. Your words are treated with respect and regard by many including myself. Hence rising these points.

1.   Is the world deteriorating? The world, as Bhagavan always taught, is a projection of one’s mind, right? The truth is one and only one whereas  right – wrong or good-bad concepts are the works of mind. Of course it is accepted that these twins are necessary for social stability. Hence how can one come to the perception that the world is deteriorating based on the concept of an earlier world?

2.   A large number of temple priests are doing it just as another job in a factory/office/field. Then what is there to prevent him from drinking, smoking, eating non-veg etc. unless otherwise it is restricted by the service rules governing him? If it is restricted then doing it  is an offence and to be dealt with accordingly.

3.   One has the right to abstain from non-veg, liquor and sex and definitely it is good for him. But one should not abhore  the use of above too. It depends on one’s   prarabda or karma. May be because of that Sri Sankara has to have lessons from the Chandala and the old woman (Sakthi).

4.   In Sakthi  upasana also it is permitted subject to the lineage and gunas of the sadhakas.

5.   ABOVE ALL , as you are well aware of, Bhagavan never encouraged such criticism. Even if it is EVIL in our view HE never advised to criticize/resist it. Am I correct?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 12:24:00 PM »
Dear sreeswaroop,

Firstly, the priests of the temple should be employed in full time basis with a decent salary. Now that the
government has taken over the temple administration, they should see to it that these priests are decently
paid and on the condition that they should not do any other work, excepting teaching Vedas and Upanishads
and other scriptures to willing students, when there is no temple work.

Secondly, regarding appointments, the so called secular policy should not come in the way of appointments.
Brahmins alone are qualified for the work and they alone should be appointed. But even these brahmins should\
have good character and conduct.  Can you see any administration of mosques or
Walf Boards managed by non-Moslems?  Why only for Hindu temples?

Secondly, due to first and second, they will naturally not indulge in eating other than vegetarian food and resort to
smoking or drinking. Traditionally chewing pan and betal nuts by householders are not prohibited. No tobacco please.
So when priests are householders, they do these pan chewing in their homes and not inside or outside temples.

When I say the world is deteriorating, I  only discreetly pointed our egos have deteriorated due to vasanas and also
the desire causing objects spreading all over the world.


Arunachala Sivas.               

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2012, 09:10:01 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya!


Dear Subramanian ji,

Yes. It is agreed that the priests of the temple should be paid decent salary. For example the previous government in Kerala

has sanctioned a salary of Rs. 10 lakhs for one year for the main priest of Sabarimala restricting dakshina from the devotees.

(Interestingly, the concerned minister was a communist and non-believer). As per the Varna system, the purohits are expected

 to live by the dakshina from devotees and students and not by salary. Mixing two systems create confusion.

The taking over of temple administration by the govts and administration  (misadministration?) by the nominees selected in

accordance with the greed / appeasement to various political forces or communities is the present day reality in India, swearing

 by secularism, which has not been objected by the constitutional forces so far. But  one has to take it or fight it out among the

voters. That is a social cause.


Earlier the right to rule had been assigned by birth. Now it is not said so. The right to Vaidic rituals by qualified Brahmins shall

not be challenged but the selection needs to be proper.


As you are aware of, since Temple entry had been banned for a section of society till the last century, Sri Narayana Guru, a

Brahma Jnani, had established temples for them. Though some politicians and social reformers had been fighting for the entry

to all, it was HIS actions and messages which brought about much change in the society. HE had been challenged by the

conservative Brahmins (Sri Sankara also faced such challenges) at that time but HE had never fighted with them. Just like

Bhagavan Sri Ramana, the simple and casual answer had been that HE had installed an “Ezhava Siva” ( Ezhava means a caste-

HE was born in that family).


To be short, one may come to the conclusion that it is better and wise to leave the systems and procedures of a temple in

accordance with the concept of its installation.



Subramanian.R

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 12:54:44 PM »
Dear Sreeswaroop,

I  agree with your views. Proper selection, scrutinizing the applicant's qualifications, his knowledge in temple rituals are all
necessary.  We follow this rule in IIT and IIM selection but not in the case of priests!

Narayana Guru was an exceptional case. He met Sri Bhagavan only once in Skandasramam. Narayana Guru was well versed
in Sanskrit and Vedanta. He was never against brahmins but only again brahmins' oligarchy to control others. He had seen
Sri Bhagavan and was immediately attracted by His state of supreme Brahman.  Sri Bhagavan never asked him: Wherefrom
are you coming? Where are you going from here? What is your name? What is your caste? What work do you do? etc.,

Because Sri Bhagavan never considered any body / anything other than Brahman.

Narayana Guru wrote Nirvritti Panchakam in Skandasramam itself and also wrote Municharya Panchakam after
returning to Varkala.

He is a great saint. His 155th anniversary was recently celebrated.

Arunachala Siva. 

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Sati & Pativrata
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 02:53:44 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya!

Yes. HE walked alone through the whole of South India and visited and stayed in a large number of temples including Palani, maintaining the body with whatever Bhiksha received irrespective of caste/creed/religion. During this period he wrote the majority of poems in praise of Lord Subramania. Atmopadesa sathakam (like Ullathu Narpathu) and Darsana mala are his important works.

Unfortunately a number of other Jnanis /Avadhoothas are not familiar now a day. Once, while staying at Kottar, Narayana Guru visited Kompa swamy at Vadassery and had a lengthy personal talk with him. Naturally his followers enquired about it and Guru replied that Kompa was a Brahma Jnani and that HE had cleared some doubts from him. Now how many seekers are aware of Kompa swamy? Of course, it is told that there is a temple on his Samadhi at Eathamozhi near Nagercoil.

Narayana Guru himself was a disciple of Sri Ayya Swami ( Mr.Subbarayan from Chennai later known as Thycauttu Ayyaswamigal in Travancore) who had initiated him with Balasubramania mantra and advices. His words are also not wide-spread  and readily available for seekers.