Author Topic: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha  (Read 4868 times)

ksksat27

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Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« on: January 13, 2012, 01:29:26 PM »
In one of the posts,  Subramanian Sir told the below points on Kailash and other planes.


"The answer for Who am I? is only salvation. This can be done only in the world. Not in Vaikunta and Kailasa where there is only
some happiness though for long time. Finally one should do self inquiry as a jiva on the world and attain salvation. There is no
other go! Vaikunta and Kailasa are like waiting sheds in the bus station. You have to catch the bus and go to the earth. One cannot
remain for ever in waiting sheds.   "

I have already done a analysis of what happens to those beings in Kailash or Vaikunta  through great people's writings.

They seem not to tally with Subramanian sir view.

Though Kailash,  Vaikunta are highly elevated greatest planes,   the jivas that go there are not immediatley liberated.  So there is a chance ,  only a theoretical chance that they may come down to earth.  Like jaya,  vijaya  or sundara murthi swamigal  they may return back to earth.  But this is a very very rare possibility.

According to appaya dikshitar,   the sathya lokha will seem like whatever the devotee wished for earnestly during his sadhana in earth.    And those beings go to such higher planes,  will not have any desires of worldly left over.  They want only Love of God.  So  Appaya Deekshetar says that those jivas wil be liberated after this current creation gets annihilated.

The recent time jnani Annamalai Swami says that if you are very very earnest in your sadhana and has no worldy desires left,  you may reach a very high plane like Kailash.  And he further says that those beings will get liberated from there without returning back to earth.

We need to understand one thing --  swarga,  chandra lokah,  pithur lokah etc.  are surely based on merits and one has to come down the moment the merits are exhausted.

But Kailash and Vaikunta,  the Devi's abode chindhamani gruha are not at all like that.  One can never reach these planes by merits.  One can reach these planes only through repeated devotion in many life times on earth.

And the souls going there are 99.9999%  guaranteed liberation at a point  which is not measurable by even the time factor.

For instance,  an evening time pradhosha kaalam in Kailash can last for many many Brahma's universal time spans. 

So the point is, those devotees will never reach earth again.

There is one forest called Kadhamba vanam  even before reaching Chinadhanmani Gruham.  Godess Durga blesses many souls there itself where extraordinary beautiful spots will be available.   Durvasa Maharishi has written very nicely in his work about Devi's abode and minutest details. 

There are said to be many brahmachari vadukkal (celibate boys)  in Chintamani Gruham  .  Devi has kept them like babes,  but they are fully qualified jnanis.  Say, if one of them come to earth  just by a incident,  they will become great brahman jnanis to help cross many people like us.  So those celibare boys,   how devi has kept ?  She has kept them  in the same state as sanat kumaraas  where they dont even know creation exist.    So they are in the same great primordial  Brahman state.   Supreme Ajata state.   

For ignorant mortals like us,  if we just manage to invoke their attention through intense tapas and longing for brahman knowledge,  they can immediately give us the same state they are in.

So point is,  those lokahs are full of such type of great mahatmas.  And one who reaches those abodes,  will certainly cross the final line and in our view point,  he has already crossed and will never return to earth again.


Subramanian.R

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 05:37:45 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

I gave only Sri Bhagavan' views in the matter. The Vaikunta, Kailasa and Chintamani Gruha of Devi are all in our mental planes.
Who has seen them? If some one had seen them, do they come back and tell you?  Or the scriptures tell you that someone
will vouchsafe it for them. Sri Bhagavan said rather than thinking about some dualistic imaginations, one should do self inquiry
or self surrender and reach the state of Godhead or Brahman, now itself.  Sri Sankara who has described about Chintamani Gruha
has also written Dasa Sloki where he says that mukti is here and now when you erase your mind and vasanas.

So there are different types of interpretations. I would like to be with Sri Bhagavan's teachings.

Some Vaishnavite scriptures say that the jivas who are elevated to Vaikunta, would remain with Narayana and attain liberation
at the end of the eons. Sri Bhagavan says here and now.

Saint Manikkavachagar says:

PiRpAl ninRu pezhkaNithAl perutharku aRiyan pemmane!

If you hesitate, and drag your feet, He will become rare to attain.

Srimad Bhagavatam says Jaya and Vijaya had to come down to earth to take birth as three pairs of rakshasas. Because
they disrespected Sankadi munis. Now a question is, if one could go to Vaikunta  and be at the guardsmen of Naryana,
how come they do not know that they should not disrespect the great munis, Sanaka etc.,  Don/t they have even that
much wisdom?

Srimad Bhagavatam starts as Satyam Param Deemahi.  Satyam, ULLa PoruL,, Sat, the Self alone is the only Truth.

Krishna Himself says he is a Kala rupa, bound by time. His eternal Atma rupa is known only to a few rishis.

Several puranas will say different stories. But one should discern and take only the essence.
Skadam says Skanda is the greatest of all.  Linga Puranam, says Siva is the greatest of all. Bhagavatam says
Naryana is the greatest of all.

Only the Truth is the greatest of all.

     
Arunachala Siva.
 
     

ksksat27

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 08:54:39 AM »
Dear Sir,

Actually what I dont agree is this:  it is not necessary to be born on earth to attain liberation.

Liberation can take place from those higher planes like Kailash or Vaikunta.

They very much exist in the minds,  but in the minds of highly elevated beings it exists.

In this earth,  North America is present,   as long as I have taken birth on earth,  I have to accept that North America exist.

Similarly,  in the spiritual globe that covers all universes,  NA equivalent Kailash or Vaikunta definitely exist.

It is as real as I write this,  to say in the words of Bhagavan Ramana.

And there were great people including Annamalai Swami , Appaya Deekshithar who has indeed stated that liberation from such higher planes,  directly is quite possible

A recent example is this:  Kanchi Paramacharya suddenly went into meditative mood and when he came back,  he told this:

The great Chidhanandha of Guha nandha mandali who was ardent Devi devotee has left his mortal coil.  I am seeing him entering into the realms of Chinthamani Gruhaa.

Abhirami Pattar has nicely proclaimed this:  thanguvar karpaga thaavinil,  paavayr aadavum paadavum.

To be more granular,  Sarada devi has even said that Thakur devotees will attain a similar Lokham called Ramakrishna lokham.

So point is this:  I definitely believe,  those abodes are only for purest of pure souls,  who have almost completed the sadhana but ony that advaita moksham has not taken place.  Thousands of such beings definitely go to these lokas and get liberated from there without ever returning back to physical earth.


The story of Jaya and Vijaya is an eye opener --    they actually avodied a hundreds of pure births and took the short cut path of three births,  ofcourse,  they did not realise that  being a good devotee is more important than returnign back to vaikunta in a short time. 

As I already specified,  beings returning back to earth from such highest planes are very very rare events if at all it takes place.

To be back to this physical body is such a pain,  Para Shakthi herself decides without any  karmic background for some selected souls to be called to Liberation.  Such  beings without any qualification suddenly find themselves immersed in pure devotion and thereby attain these abodes from where they get liberated in due course.   They dont come back and be born again in mother's womb as Supreme Mother has called them by her own Grace and Supreme Will that surpasses every other thing has embraced them out of no efforts on their part. "Neeye ninaivindri aandu kondai , yenna peru pertren thaaye" says Abhirami Pattar.

Ramana Maharish has told the abayam given by Arunachelshwara as 'supreme court order' when Muruganar asked about that.

When such beings assured and promised of Liberation dies,  but still with the "i" thought,  God arranges for a supreme abode like the arunachala lokham inside the caves.  They go there,  complete their sadhana and attain liberation.


Subramanian.R

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2012, 01:11:28 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Yes. I have also read that Abhirami Bhattar's poem in Andati. These are all the normal practices in which bhaktas pray. In
Jnana Marga, Self is the only one without second. It is formless and nameless. It can be attained only in the world, anywhere,
even if it is North America. But one should be born in the world as a living being, not even human being. Kailas and Vaikunta
are no doubt in bhakti margas. But who has seen Kailasa or Vaikunta?  This world we have seen and we are living in it.

Arunachala Siva.

ksksat27

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 09:18:29 AM »
Though the earth is called Karma bhuumi,   it is only in reference to heavens and hells.

But these Kailasam,  Vaikuntam,  Chindhamani gruham ,  Arunachala lokahm are very high elevated planes.

If by any means,  one reach that high state of mind,  they dont return back to earth this karma bhoomi.

Because only one who has no other vasana left out,  can enter such great realms.

And they are not imaginations of the mind,  they are very real like this earth.   Bhagavan has clearly stated that until you cease taking yourself to be body   (not intellectually but by experience),  all these aeons,  realms etc.  very much apply.

I believe we cry on a body pain still,  until we dont identify with body to the slightest extent,  all these elevated planes definitely exist very tangibly.  In Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's words,  you can touch in physical plane your chosen deity only if you are earnest.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 12:45:30 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

You have yourself mentioned that only those who have no vasanas left out can reach such realms. Sri Sankara and
Sri Bhagavan also say Vasana kshyam mukti; ahanthai uru azhithale mukti unar;  So when one gets his vasanas
exhausted, he attains liberation.  Perhaps this state of liberation can be called Kailash, Vaikunta, Chintamani Gruha etc.,   
In fact,  Sri Sankara who is the champion of advaita mentions about Chintamani Gruham in Sri Soundarya Lahari. All
the 63 Saiva saints and Manikkavachagar speak of Siva Puram (Kailash). Perhaps in bhakti marga it is usual to mention mukti
as a place, like Kailash, Vaikunta, Sivapuram, Chintamani Gruham etc.,

Sri Bhagavan clearly says in Who am I?:

Question: What is called Mukti?

Bhagavan: To search oneself within and finding out one's own real swarupam is mukti. 


Arunachala Siva.

   

Jewell

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2012, 06:23:07 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

I agree with Subramanian. Like Bhagavan said,only important question is to ask who is that who ask all this questions,and Who you really are. First find out that. All those realms exist,but only in the mind realm. So,how much real is our body,the world and the mind,that much are real all those worlds.
It is nothing wrong with that to wonder about all these things. But,then,ask your self,dear Krishnan,way you wonder about all this? You can have something much,much more better than that. Reality itself. Sri Ramana will certainly take you to the goal. Even,we are the goal,only we need to let go,and see for ourselfs.

Love

ksksat27

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 01:18:15 PM »
Dear Jewell,

I agree who am i is the ultimate question but one should be persisent enough to practice it all the time.

So we normal human beings who practice it only in safe hours of the day and not when one is chased by a dog or thief.

That time spontaneously when we cry hare ramana or sri mathaa  that is not something inferior to the enquiry.

All our sadhana,  whatever the method it is , it is equally false and thesupreme absolute state itself is even beyond the "I am" arouse.

The supreme ajata state is the ultimate truth,  no seeker,  no one ever lived or died,  nothing ever happened.






Jewell

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Re: Kailash , Vaikunta and Chindamani gruha
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2012, 08:10:48 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

 :)I agree on this with you. Like you said,all what we do is inquiry in some way,or sadhana,or what ever.
But,you said the point.

Love