Does jnani know His prarabdha karma?

[Hari]

Yes, I know, for Jnani there is no karma but the body must experience his karma. Does Jnani know it?

[Jyoti]

Isn't a Jnani all-knowing?

[Nagaraj]

Dear ramana,

For a jnani, the body is not different from himself. There is no - "a jnani" and "his body" there is, just "Jnanam" hence this speculation does not arise at all.

Jnani's body is not different. There is no "known" and a "knower"

What is prarabhdha? The so called prarabhda of a "jnani" appears only to the onlookers, to we devotees only, not to Himself!

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Nagaraj]

Yes, I know, for Jnani there is no karma but the body must experience his karma. Does Jnani know it?

Dear Ramana,

i may perhaps have over looked your question.

you asked a very pertinent question "Does the Jnani know it?"

Who can confirm this? we can get answer to this from books, or fellow devotee or from the Jnani Himself. In the end, how do you know if the source of the confirmation is true? is it not yourself in the end, that you should look for confirmation? Who else can confirm other than yourself, when everything else passes?

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Subramanian.R]

Dear friends,

A jnani is only the Self .The body and its so called sufferings and pleasures are only from the
Onlooker,s points of views. Dr. Guruswami Mudaliar who did surgeries on Him during His terminal
Illness, said with utter astonishment, as to how He could put up with such enormous pains
Without showing grimace or sulkiness on His face.

Arunachala Siva.

[Hari]

I cannot understand something. Ramana has said that for jnani there is no prarabdha karma anymore because there is no "I" to experience it. But in another occasion He says that jnani has no ichha prarabdha karma (personally desired) but the other two - anichha (without desire) and parechha (due to others' desire) still exist. How to understand that?

[Nagaraj]

The Jnani seems to have or not have Prarabhda so long you(we) are ajnani.

The bottom line is, we have to realise. we have to be a jnani to know a jnani.

Can ajnani ever know a jnani? can Sun ever know Darkness or can Darkness ever know the Sun?

The Darkness can never see the Sun, and also, the Sun can never see Darkness too!

In the same lines, any answer to your question will never be satisfactory because, fundamentally, we (darkness) can never know the Jnani (Sun)

When Darkness can never see the Sun, it is like darkness questioning the prarabhda of a Sun, which it can never see!

Ramana, relating to the Snake Rope example, its also like, asking, enquiring about the colour and features of the Snake, which is mistakenly seen, which really is not there at all! Its like asking about the Prarabhda karma of a snake, but there is no snake, there is only rope (you)

Only a jnani can see a jnani. we, as ajnani, can never know a jnani! What to say about jnani or his prarabhda, then?

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Hari]

So the second explanation of Ramana is just for the ajnanis?

[Nagaraj]

yes, we can keep it that way. The aim of "Jnanam" or "Ultimate Truth" or "Vedas" or "Upanishad" is only Tat Tvam Asi only.

The Vedas or Upanisshads and scriptures really do not intend at all at the least to even discuss anything about creation, preservation or destruction etc... but you see, these are normal inquisitiveness of every soul. The Scriptures feed the seeker with such stories, so that, it may lead the seeker to true light eventually.

Its like a mother, telling a fancy adventurous story to her child, some how to make the child eat its food!

In the same, way "Truth" is slowly taking us within, by all these!

Yes, Bhagavan's answer is just for the Ajnanis only! but are ajnani's really there? that is the trick in it! Is Darkness really there?

That's why he throws his Brahmaasthram, pushing us back to source, Who am I, Source to "I", If it for ajnani, who is an Ajnani? Am I an Ajnani or Jnani, who am I...

Back to source -

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Hari]

I don't fully understand and this:

Individuals have to suffer their Karmas but Iswara manages to make the best of their Karmas for his purpose. God manipulates the fruits of Karma but he does not add or take away from it. The subconscious of man is a warehouse of good and bad Karma. Iswara chooses from this warehouse what he sees will best suit the spiritual evolution at the time of each man, whether pleasant or painful. Thus there is nothing arbitrary.

If the ajnanis has no free will how could subconsciousness be warehouse of karmas? God manipulates the fruits it is said. But why should "we" bear there fruits if we have no free will? If it's that way what is the use of karma in first place?

[Nagaraj]

We are not bearing these fruits Ramana, its like Bhagavan says, like the statue seen in big temples, which seem as though it is carrying the huge and heavy stone roof's, where as it is only sculpted, where as, really it is the pillar which takes the load of the the heavy stone roof's.

My mistake, we feel as though we are bearing the fruits of Karmas! Karma relates to only body and not the Self. Since we have imagined and have developed strong identification with Body, it seems as though we are bearing all the fruits of karmas.

Don't bear the fruits, surrender completely and remain at peace! that is Sharanagati. So long we have identification with body, and imaging the body as I, Mine, My, so long Karma will be burden, we will have to bear the fruits like the sculpted statue (in effect, even then, it is only ignorance to think that we are bearing the fruits of karmas)

In a hurry will look into this in some time

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Nagaraj]

Dear Ramana,

No matter how much we look into and see, it is absolutely sure that there are no 2 selves, i.e. an ajnani and a Self. There is but one, only one and that is Self alone!

and, when we look in deeply and discern, there is really no Sub Consciousness, Substratum of everything, Super Consciousness, etc... these are just terms used at various instances only for the purposes of discernment. There is just Consciousness alone, which the Vedas call Brahman, Atma, Tat, Aham.

And, moreover, the Moon derives its light from Sun only, can we say that the moon has its own light? therefore, these relative terms that are used are as good as the moon light, which itself derives its light from Sun only!

So long, one thinks he is individual, he suffers. When he realises that there is no individual, that, the individuality existed only like the thought that the moon has its own light, or, like the existence of darkness, or like the horns of a rabbit!

There is no individuality! This are the words of all the Sages of the Yore! But until we are able to see this, they say it is all karma!

Karma ends the same way as darkness! Every day, when the Sun rises, where does darkness go? there is no place to even hide! Where is the snake, in the Snake-Rope phenomenon? The existence of Karma and Individuality exists the same way as the belief of existence of a snake and karma also is just a product of that non existent snake only!

It really is not!

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Subramanian.R]

A Jnani "acts" in the world, though he knows it is all acting and nothing else. It is like a
good natured man playing the role of Ravana on the stage.

Arunachala Siva.

[Nagaraj]

Dear Subramanian Sir,

I feel, "Jnanam" does not even act! That is Its Natural Self! There is no Action, and, there is no Inaction too! It is beyond action and inaction! Moreover, why should a "jnanam" act, and, for who does "Jnanam" act? there is "no other" for a "Jnanam"

It only seems acting to us, who see. That "Jnanam" is also but, just a reflection of the glorious Self within! There are no two "Jnanams" The Jnani as we see, and the Self that only is!

When we look within and see and discern subtly, it is basically, only because, the self sees itself different from itself!

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Nagaraj,

I was referring with the contents of Sri Bhagavan's verses (translated from Yoga Vasishtam)
in Ulladu Narpadu - Supplement, in mind.

Arunachala Siva.