Author Topic: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta  (Read 174953 times)

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #585 on: September 06, 2013, 05:24:58 PM »
Dear Hari, the purpose of neti neti is to realise that the YOU (Self) are really form less.  The real Self which you are, art not what you felt (the knowledge) you were, like the body, eyes, and so on. You discern that YOU are totally different, none of these, whose form is attribute-less, which cannot be defined or determined, it is inexpressible.

Not this, Not this, what is being negated is our definition of whatever we negate as neti neti. what is being negated is our definition, our understanding. The Self is indefinable, indiscernible. It is to realise this. Again realise this and finish it with neti neti. Neti Neti is just The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

You are not only this, not only this, but the whole of it. Your body is not only the heart, not only the liver, not only the eyes, not only the limbs, but the whole of it art you.

Like you are not the beeds in a string, not this bead, not this bead, but the whole of it all, art you.

Bhagavan says in Talks:

the wise man believes that the body cannot remain apart from
the Self. The Self is infinite for him and includes the body also.


Again the body is just our definition, like the hilarious videos 1 of yesterday, as a baby, you never knew anything, still fresh before being dumped with various knowledge.

You just cannot see anything without the interpretation of your knowledge. What you see with the interpretation of your knowledge you reject as neti neti.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #586 on: September 06, 2013, 05:25:38 PM »
Dear Hari,

Through the process of duality only, one can attain non duality.  Bhakti and Jnana - both start from duality.  In bhakti,
I and God are different at the beginning.  Then finally there is only God and not me. See Verse 48 of AAMM. Similarly
in Jnana, firstly mind and the Self are different.  After jettisoning all the mind has (external looking etc.,) the mind comes
back to the Self and dissolves itself.

Arunachala Siva.   

Said in this way I can understand. But saying that the mind has not existed in the first place when it is here and now is somehow strange. Temporal or not it is here and now. But if we accept the mind, then we must accept that duality exists in reality, however temporally which however contradicts non-duality.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #587 on: September 06, 2013, 05:30:50 PM »
Dear Hari, the purpose of neti neti is to realise that the YOU (Self) are really form less.  The real Self which you are, art not what you felt (the knowledge) you were, like the body, eyes, and so on. You discern that YOU are totally different, none of these, whose form is attribute-less, which cannot be defined or determined, it is inexpressible.

Not this, Not this, what is being negated is our definition of whatever we negate as neti neti. what is being negated is our definition, our understanding. The Self is indefinable, indiscernible. It is to realise this. Again realise this and finish it with neti neti. Neti Neti is just The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

You are not only this, not only this, but the whole of it. Your body is not only the heart, not only the liver, not only the eyes, not only the limbs, but the whole of it art you.

Like you are not the beeds in a string, not this bead, not this bead, but the whole of it all, art you.

Bhagavan says in Talks:

the wise man believes that the body cannot remain apart from
the Self. The Self is infinite for him and includes the body also.


Again the body is just our definition, like the hilarious videos 1 of yesterday, as a baby, you never knew anything, still fresh before being dumped with various knowledge.

You just cannot see anything without the interpretation of your knowledge. What you see with the interpretation of your knowledge you reject as neti neti.

--

Dear Nagaraj,
let say I realize that all people are manifestation of my Self, not the ego, but my Self. So is it correct to say that the body I am is not mine too? Yes, I am not this particular body but the body must also be my Self.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #588 on: September 06, 2013, 05:32:58 PM »
let say I realize that all people are manifestation of my Self, not the ego, but my Self. So is it correct to say that the body I am is not mine too? Yes, I am not this particular body but the body must also be my Self.

Neti Neti, what ever you come out with Neti Neti it!

:)
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #589 on: September 06, 2013, 05:34:27 PM »
Dear Hari,

What is mind?  Mind is only a bundle of thoughts, thoughts about 'I' and 'mine', the world and people.  So when I say mind
you should understand that it is only thought.  If this outward looking thought, is turned within, then all thoughts dissolve
by consistent and persistent practice.  Instead of saying about the group of thoughts, we say mind.  For more elaboration,
see Upadesa Saram, Verse 16, 17 and 18. And also Who am I?

Since the 'I' thought is the primary thought from which other barrage of thoughts spring forth, Sri Bhagavan said: First
investigate the I thought.  See again verse 19 of Upadesa Saram.

Arunachala Siva. 
         

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #590 on: September 06, 2013, 05:35:11 PM »
In the process you are burning yourself out, like a matchstick! neti neti. Get destroyed! :)
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #591 on: September 06, 2013, 05:37:43 PM »
Dear Hari,

What is mind?  Mind is only a bundle of thoughts, thoughts about 'I' and 'mine', the world and people.  So when I say mind
you should understand that it is only thought.  If this outward looking thought, is turned within, then all thoughts dissolve
by consistent and persistent practice.  Instead of saying about the group of thoughts, we say mind.  For more elaboration,
see Upadesa Saram, Verse 16, 17 and 18. And also Who am I?

Since the 'I' thought is the primary thought from which other barrage of thoughts spring forth, Sri Bhagavan said: First
investigate the I thought.  See again verse 19 of Upadesa Saram.

Arunachala Siva. 
         

Yes, this is the mind. But the thoughts are there. They exist. So how can we say that they are not from the Self. Where they could come from?
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #592 on: September 06, 2013, 05:38:36 PM »
Dear Hari,

To say that I am not the body is only to advise you that you are ever the Self.  Here Sri Bhagavan says one cannot jettison
the body till the destiny decides about it.  But you can jettison the body consciousness, even now if you are mature enough
in Atma vichara.

Arunachala Siva.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #593 on: September 06, 2013, 05:38:50 PM »
In the process you are burning yourself out, like a matchstick! neti neti. Get destroyed! :)

Something like, neti neti "neti neti" :D
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43604
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #594 on: September 06, 2013, 05:41:57 PM »
Dear Hari,

All thoughts, whether good or bad come only from the Self. But THEY ARE NOT THE SELF.  The veil the Self like the clouds
veil the Sun.  One should try to overcome these clouds of thought.  That is why Sri Bhagavan said: Be still.

Arunachala Siva.     

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #595 on: September 06, 2013, 05:43:52 PM »
Something like, neti neti "neti neti" :D

Actually , you have come up with a profound observation, in the end neti neti, even neti neti! Thereafter, even to say Just Be, is corruption!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #596 on: September 06, 2013, 05:45:33 PM »
Dear Hari,

To say that I am not the body is only to advise you that you are ever the Self.  Here Sri Bhagavan says one cannot jettison
the body till the destiny decides about it.  But you can jettison the body consciousness, even now if you are mature enough
in Atma vichara.

Arunachala Siva.

Yes, yes, I can understand that very clearly and logically from for example sankhya perspective because it does not exclude prakriti (phenomenal world). But here we are talking about investigation of something that is not real! You talk about destiny. But how can you talk about destiny when it does not exist according to advaita? I think that I don't know express exactly and accurately what I mean but I will try in the next post.

Thank you!
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #597 on: September 06, 2013, 05:49:37 PM »
Dear Hari,

All thoughts, whether good or bad come only from the Self. But THEY ARE NOT THE SELF.  The veil the Self like the clouds
veil the Sun.  One should try to overcome these clouds of thought.  That is why Sri Bhagavan said: Be still.

Arunachala Siva.     

But accepting thoughts as something different from the Self and at the same time coming from the Self then there is something other than the Self which is duality! This is what troubles me.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #598 on: September 06, 2013, 05:52:14 PM »
Something like, neti neti "neti neti" :D

Actually , you have come up with a profound observation, in the end neti neti, even neti neti! Thereafter, even to say Just Be, is corruption!

--

Yes. More and more thinking and analyzing the Advaita philosophy which I thought it is perfect. More and more I see it is not so. And more and more I realize why Bhagavan was almost always quiet.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #599 on: September 06, 2013, 05:54:56 PM »
Hari, Socrates expressed -

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.

I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.



The Self has nothing to know, for it itself is unknowable!

The nature of Self is Not Known!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta