Author Topic: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta  (Read 174668 times)

Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #570 on: September 06, 2013, 12:52:41 AM »
Has anyone of you had tension and restlessness during Self-enquiry? If yes, how do you manage it?
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Nagaraj

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #571 on: September 06, 2013, 11:04:04 AM »
Hari, there are possibilities one may get tension and restlessness during self enquiry, this would be a a definite yes by most if not all. Unfortunately, there are no methods to manage it, the Sage only asks us to only proceed, as any step taken to tackle the restlessness only would deviate you. There is no way, allow the nature to take course, as the river travels, it is bound to pass through some places of rocks and bumps and eventually would pass through them, what an we do, we just got to be patient, humongous patience, as the Hercules is carrying the earth!

Any solution is false, there are no solutions, solutions are illusions as the problems!

--
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 11:07:23 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #572 on: September 06, 2013, 11:22:55 AM »
Hari,
Tension and restlessness may mean one is struggling to control the mind forcibly-may be, by way of concentration.Whether it is self-enquiry or any other sadhana,there is always a quiet way of doing it and a forced way(Sri Ramakrishna calls these as Satvic and Tamasic approaches).
The key towards handling it is to be 'aware' that this is happening and this awareness itself will make the mind more amenable-one gets to recollect the scattered mind and switch over to the job at hand.

Here is an excerpt from David Godman's interview:

"Sri Ramana likened self-enquiry to holding a bunch of fresh grass under the bull’s nose. As the bull approaches it, you move away in the direction of the stable door and the bull follows you. You lead it back into the stable, and it voluntarily follows you because it wants the pleasure of eating the grass that you are holding in front of it. Once it is inside the stable, you allow it to eat the abundant grass that is always stored there. In this way you train it to stay home. The door of the stable is always left open, and the bull is free to leave and roam about at any time. There is no punishment or restraint. The bull will go out repeatedly, because it is the nature of such animals to wander in search of food, but every time you notice that your bull–mind has wandered out, tempt it back into its stable with the same technique. Don’t try to beat it into submission or you may be attacked, and don’t try to solve the problem forcibly by locking it up. Sooner or later even the dimmest of bulls will understand that, since there is a perpetual supply of tasty food in the stable, there is no point wandering around outside, because that always leads to suffering and punishments. Even though the stable door is always open, the bull will eventually stay inside and enjoy the food that is always there".

You may like to read the complete interview:
http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.in/2008/05/interview-with-integral-yoga-magazine.html

somewhere in this interview David says that in the case of japa,etc,the mind is 'Forced'.I do not agree.Anything done with Love and devotion automatically sets the mind right.If the mind is recalcitrant,a devotee may switch to a simple prayer to get it out of the rut.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #573 on: September 06, 2013, 11:43:47 AM »
Sri Ravi, very insightful post. Anything done with Love and devotion automatically sets the mind right. - very true, and love and devotion also in-turn doesn't come by our effort, as the saying goes, avan arulale avan thaal vanangi.

The bull will go out repeatedly, because it is the nature of such animals to wander in search of food, but every time you notice that your bull–mind has wandered out, tempt it back into its stable with the same technique. Don’t try to beat it into submission or you may be attacked, and don’t try to solve the problem forcibly by locking it up. Sooner or later even the dimmest of bulls will understand that, since there is a perpetual supply of tasty food in the stable, there is no point wandering around outside, because that always leads to suffering and punishments. Even though the stable door is always open, the bull will eventually stay inside and enjoy the food that is always there".

this, as above, the span as above will generate restlessness, as we are even responding with wisdom, still the restlessness would remain, eventually to disappear eventually.

In one ways, Self Enquiry also is highest Hata Yoga, deliberate effort is made to curtail the outgoing mind and arresting it within. When the situation is favorable it is conducive and we also pass through those phases when it is not conducive, and it would be greatly burdensome, not only for self enquiry but just about any sadhana.

--
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 11:42:47 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #574 on: September 06, 2013, 12:12:42 PM »
Talks 326

In answer to a question by a long resident attendant Sri Bhagavan said: “Everybody complains of the restlessness of the mind. Let the mind be found and then they will know. True, when a man sits down to meditate thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts is unsuccessful. If one can by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation (Japa or dhyana) is prescribed. It is like giving a piece of chain to an elephant to hold in its trunk. The trunk of the elephant is usually restless. It puts it out in all directions when taken out in the streets of the town.

If given a chain to carry the restlessness is checked. Similarly with the restless mind. If made to engage in japa or dhyana, other thoughts are warded off: and the mind concentrates on a single thought. It thus becomes peaceful. It does not mean that peace is gained without a prolonged struggle. The other thoughts must be fought out.

Here is another illustration. Suppose a cow plays rogue and strays into neighbours’ fields to graze. She is not easily weaned from her stealthy habit. Think how she can be kept in the stall. If forcibly tethered in the stall she simply bides her time to play the rogue. If she is  tempted with fine grass in the stall she takes one mouthful on the first day and again waits for the opportunity to run away. The next day she takes two mouthfuls; so she takes more and more on each succeeding day, until finally she is weaned from her wicked tendencies. When entirely free from bad habits she might be safely left free and she would not stray into neighbours’ pasture land. Even  when beaten in the stall, she does not afterwards leave the place. Similarly with the mind. It is accustomed to stray outward by the force of the latent vasanas manifesting as thoughts. So long as there are vasanas contained within they must come out and exhaust themselves. The thoughts comprise the mind. Searching what the mind is, the thoughts will recoil and the seeker will know that they arise from the Self. It is the aggregate of these thoughts that we call ‘mind’. If one realises that the thoughts arise from the Self and abide in their source, the mind will disappear. After the mind ceases to exist and bliss of peace has been realised, one will find it then as difficult to bring out a thought, as he now finds it difficult to keep out all thoughts. Here the mind is the cow playing the rogue; the thoughts are the neighbours’ pasture; one’s own primal being free from thoughts is the stall.

The bliss of peace is too good to be disturbed. A man fast asleep hates to be awakened and ordered to mind his business. The bliss of sleep is too enthralling to be sacrificed to the work born of thoughts. The thought-free state is one’s primal state and full of bliss. Is it not miserable to leave such a state for the thought-ridden and unhappy one?

If one wants to abide in the thought-free state, a struggle is inevitable. One must fight one’s way through before regaining one’s original primal state. If one succeeds in the fight and reaches the goal, the enemy, namely the thoughts, will all subside in the Self and disappear entirely. The thoughts are the enemy. They amount to the creation of the Universe. In their absence there is neither the world  nor God the Creator. The Bliss of the Self is the single Being only. When Prahlada was in samadhi, Vishnu thought within Himself:

“This asura being in samadhi, all the asuras are in peace. There is no fight, no trial of strength, no search for power, nor the means for gaining power. In the absence of such means for power - yaga, yajna, etc., i.e., the gods are not thriving; there is no new creation; nor even is any existence justified. So I will wake him up; then the asuras will rise up; their original nature will manifest itself; the gods will challenge them: the asuras and others will then seek strength and adopt the means for its acquisition. Yajnas, etc., will flourish; the gods will thrive; there will be more and more of creation, more of fight and I shall have enough to do”.

So Vishnu awakened Prahlada, blessing him with eternal life and jivanmukti. Deva-asura fight was resumed and the old order of things
was restored so that the universe continues in its eternal nature.

D.: How could God Himself wake up the asura element and bring about constant warfare? Is not Pure Goodness the nature of God?

M.: Goodness is only relative. Good always implies bad also; they always co-exist. The one is the obverse of the other.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #575 on: September 06, 2013, 12:19:08 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
I shall continue this topic in the Rough-notebook thread.
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #576 on: September 06, 2013, 02:59:20 PM »
Sri Nagaraj, Sri Ravi, thank you for sharing your thoughts. They are of much help for me! :)
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Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #577 on: September 06, 2013, 03:02:08 PM »
"The pure truth of the Atman, which is buried under Maya and the effects of Maya, can be reached by meditation, contemplation and other spiritual disciplines such as a knower of Brahman may prescribe - but never by subtle arguments."
[Sri Shankara, "Vivekachudamani"]

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Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #578 on: September 06, 2013, 03:04:32 PM »
A monk is accepted into a monastery that has an extreme vow of silence. Upon entry he is told, "You can say two words every five years."
After the first five years he says, "Bed hard."
Then after another five years he says, "Food sucks."
And finally after five more years he says, "I quit." To which the abbot replies, "I thought you might. Since you've been here you've done nothing but complain!"


I am sure that if I go to a monastery I will be like that. :D
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Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #579 on: September 06, 2013, 03:10:02 PM »
Once Satan and his demon sidekick were walking down the street, closely watching a man 20 yards ahead who was on the verge of realizing the Supreme Truth. The demon grew worried, and began to nudge Satan, but Satan looked quite calm. Sure enough, the man did, in fact, soon realize the deepest spiritual Truth. Yet Satan still did nothing about it. With this, the demon nudged Satan harder and, getting no response, finally blurted out, "Satan! Don’t you see? That man has realized the Truth! And yet you are doing nothing to stop him!" With that, Satan cunningly smiled and announced, "Yes, he has realized the Truth. And now I am going to help him organize the Truth!"

:D
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Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #580 on: September 06, 2013, 03:15:37 PM »
A toast given by a Hindu gentleman at a wedding: "A man not having a wife is incomplete. And once he has a wife, he's finished!"

:D :D :D
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Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #581 on: September 06, 2013, 03:23:30 PM »
"In the light of real understanding, the unreal image of yourself begins to fade, giving way to a joyous sense of expansion and spaciousness. 'But I feel I am dying ....' Though it feels like a dying, you do not die. It is the self image that dies."
[Mooji]

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Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #582 on: September 06, 2013, 03:37:11 PM »
"Searching is looking for something, reaching for something, trying to find what you think will give you what you want.
Self inquiry is discovering what is already here. If there is still activity it is directed toward the source rather than objects.
We can make self inquiry a search. We can do self inquiry to get something, and then it becomes searching.
But the purity of self inquiry is in the willingness to stop the outward flow of thinking. Thinking is normally about gathering information for survival. By overriding that very natural instinct, and simply telling the truth about what is here, what you are experiencing, you discover yourself."

[Gangaji]

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Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #583 on: September 06, 2013, 04:50:16 PM »
Thinking and analyzing myself some thought arises in me. I did what Sri Shankara has taught "neti, neti". I am not this, that and so on. And one by one all dropped off. But suddenly I thought "So this process is actually duality". I mean rejection of this or that establish the attitude that there is something other than the Self. If I reject my current 'wakeful' experience then I must must that this experience is something other of my Self. So if it is not the Self than what it can be? If it is something other, even 'distorted reflection' of the Self, then this means that Self can be distorted which is even more absurd. What you think about these musings of mine?
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #584 on: September 06, 2013, 04:54:27 PM »
Dear Hari,

Through the process of duality only, one can attain non duality.  Bhakti and Jnana - both start from duality.  In bhakti,
I and God are different at the beginning.  Then finally there is only God and not me. See Verse 48 of AAMM. Similarly
in Jnana, firstly mind and the Self are different.  After jettisoning all the mind has (external looking etc.,) the mind comes
back to the Self and dissolves itself.

Arunachala Siva.