Author Topic: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta  (Read 174911 times)

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #330 on: July 07, 2013, 08:44:01 PM »
Question: How to know this [the Self] by direct experience?
Bhagavans's answer: If we talk of knowing the Self, there must be two selves, one a knowing self, another the self which is known, and the process of knowing. The state we call realization is simply being oneself, not knowing anything or becoming anything. If one has realized, one is that which alone is and which alone has always been. One cannot describe that state. One can only be that. Of course, we loosely talk of Self-realization, for want of a better term. How to 'real-ize' or make real that which alone is real?
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #331 on: July 08, 2013, 09:49:42 AM »
Question: You sometimes say the Self is silence. Why is this?
Sri Ramana's answer: For those who live in Self as the beauty devoid of thoughts, there is nothing which should be thought of. That which should be adhered to is only the experience of silence, because in that supreme state nothing exists to be attained other than oneself.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #332 on: July 08, 2013, 10:13:45 AM »
Question: What is mouna [silence]?
Bhagavan's answer: That state which transcends speech and thought is mouna. That whichi is, is mouna. How can mouna be explained in words?
  Sages say that the state in which the thought 'I' [the ego] does not rise even in the least, alone is Self [swarupa] which is silence [mouna]. That silent Self alone is God; Self alone is the jiva [individual soul]. Self alone is this ancient world.
  All other knowledges are only petty and trivial knowledges; the experience of silence alone is the real and perfect knowledge. Know that the many objective differences are not real but are mere superimpositions on Self, which is the form of true knowledge.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #333 on: July 14, 2013, 02:07:31 PM »
Question: As the bodies and the selves animating them are everywhere actually observed to be innumaerable how can it be said that the Self is only one?
Bhagavan's answer: If the idea 'I am the body' is accepted, the selves are multiple. The state in which this idea vanishes is the Self since in that state there are no other objects. It is for this reason that the Self is regarded as one only.
  Since the body itself does not exist in the natural outlook of the real Self, but only in the extroverted outlook of the mind which is deluded by the power of illusion, to call Self, the space of consciousness, dehi [the possessor of the body] is wrong.
  The world does not exist without the body, the body never exists without the mind, the mind never exists without consciousness and consciousness never exists without the reality.
  For the wise one who has known the Self by diving within himself, there is nothing other than the Self to be known. Why? Because since the ego which identifies the form of a body as 'I' has perished, he [the wise one] is the formless existence-consciousness.
  The jnani [one who has realized the Self] knows he is the Self and that nothing, neither his body nor anything else, exists but the Self. To such a one what difference could the presence or absence of a body make?
  It is a false to speak of realization. What is there to realize? The real is as it is always. We are not creating anything new or achieving something which we did not have before. The illustration given in the books is this. We dig a well and create a huge pit. The space in the pit or well has not been created by us. We have just removed the earth which was filling the space there. The space was there then and is also there now. Similarly we have simply to throw out all the age-long samskaras [innate tendencies] which are inside us. When all of them have been given up, the Self will shine alone.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #334 on: July 14, 2013, 04:03:25 PM »
"God has revealed to me that only the Paramatman, whom the Vedas describe as the Pure Soul, is as immutable as Mount Sumeru, unattached, and beyond pain and pleasure. There is much confusion in this world of His maya. One can by no means say that 'this' will come after 'that' or 'this' will produce 'that'."

(Bhagavan Ramakrishna)
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #335 on: July 14, 2013, 10:10:13 PM »
Question: But how to do this and attain liberation?
Bhagavan's answer: Liberation is our very nature. We are that. The very fact that we wish for liberation shows that freedom from all bondage is our real nature. It is not to be freshly acquired. All that is necessary is to get rid of the false notion that we are bond. When we achieve that, there will be no desire or thought of any sort. So long as one desires liberation, so long, you make take it, one is in bondage.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #336 on: July 15, 2013, 08:51:19 PM »
Question: For one who has realized his Self, it is said that he will not have the three states of wakefulness, dream and deep sleep. Is that a fact?
Bhagavan's answer: What makes you say that they do not have the three states? In saying 'I had a dream; I was in deep sleep; I am awake', you must admit that you were there in all the three states. That makes it clear that you were there all the time. If you remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state; this becomes hidden in the dream state; and the dream state disappears when you are in deep sleep. You were there then , you are there now, but you are there at all times. The three states come and go, but you are always there. It is like a cinema. The screen is always there but several types of pictures appear on the screen. Similarly, you remain your own Self in all the three states. If you know that, the three states will not trouble you, just as the pictures which appear on the screen do not stick to it. On the screen, you sometimes see a huge ocean with endless waves; that disappears. Another time, you see fire spreading all around; that too disappears. The screen is there on both occasions. Did the screen get wet with the water or did it get burned by the fire? Nothing affected the screen. In the same way, the things that happen during wakeful, dream and sleep states do not affect you at all; you remain your own Self.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #337 on: July 16, 2013, 10:32:34 PM »
"There are pearls in the deep sea, but one must hazard all to find them. If diving once does not bring you pearls, you need not therefore conclude that the sea is without them. Dive again and again. You are sure to be rewarded in the end. So is it with the finding of the Lord in this world. If your first attempt proves fruitless, do not lose heart. Persevere in your efforts. You are sure to realize Him at last."
[Sri Ramakrishna]
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #338 on: July 18, 2013, 11:32:05 AM »
Question: Does that mean that, although people have all three states, wakefulness, dream and deep sleep, these do not affect them?
Bhagan's answer: Yes, that it is. All these states come and go. The Self is not bothered; it has only one state.

Question: Does that mean that such a person will be in this world merely as a witness?
Bhagavan's answer: That is so; for this very thing, Vidyaranya, in the tenth chapter of Panchadasi, gives as example the light that is kept on the stage of a theatre. When a drama is being played, the light is there, which illuminates, without any distinction, all the actors, whether they be kings or servants or dancers, and also all the audience. That light will be there before the drama begins, during the performance and also after the performance is over. Similarly, the light within, that is, the Self, gives light to the ego, the intellect, the memory and the mind without itself being subject to processes of growth and decay. Although during deep sleep and other states there is no feeling of ego, that Self remains attributeless, and continues to shine of itself.
  Actually, the idea of the Self being the witsness is only in the mind; it is not the absolute truth of the Self. Witnessing is relative to objects witnessed. Both the witness and his object are mental creations.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #339 on: July 18, 2013, 11:54:22 AM »
I don't remember if I have discussed this in this forum but it doesn't matter. In spirituality the repetition sometimes give another light of knowledge and clearance.

Bhagavan teaches that complete bhakti leads to realization that only 'I am' exists. So why such devoted bhaktas like Sri Chaitanya or Church fathers or Sufis don't realize such complete nonduality. And why Sri Krisha says in Bhagavata:

Quote
"Some endowed with such bhakti do not aspire for mOkshA or even oneness with My Being; for their delight consists in serving Me and in working out My will (and not in becoming one with Me). They therefore congregate together and honor Me by adoration and participation in My works. Such holy persons perceive and engage themselves in loving conversations with My enthralling spiritual Emanations, who possess beaming countenances and lotus-like eyes and have the power to grant all that the devotees may want."

Do we really understand what Self-realization means? Does it means to realize that only the Self exists or that 'I' and everything is experience as one in the midst of duality is difference? Even accepting that the world is a dream, this is also a duality - I and the dream. So what does Self-realization means to you now? What is your understanding based on your logic and experience?
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4017
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #340 on: July 19, 2013, 11:04:58 AM »
Hari/Friends,
What Sri Chaitanya and other great ones realized is not a matter of reasoning or debate or discussion.We do know that they had intimate knowledge of God and revelled in him-whether we choose to call God as Self,Paramatman or Bhagavan -all are one thing only.

We may consider two excepts for our understanding:

1.Talk 32-From Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
A visitor: The saints Sri Chaitanya and Sri Ramakrishna wept before God and achieved success. Is that not the path to follow?
M.: Yes. There was a powerful force (sakti) drawing them on through all those experiences. Trust in that huge power to take you on to
your goal. Tears are often considered a sign of weakness. These great persons were certainly not weak. These manifestations are only passing signs of the great current carrying them on. We must look to the end achieved.

2.An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER: "Chaitanya experienced three states of mind. First, the conscious state, when his mind dwelt on the gross and the subtle. Second, the semi-conscious state, when his mind entered the causal body and was absorbed in the bliss of divine intoxication. Third, the
inmost state, when his mind was merged in the Great Cause.
This agrees very well with the five koshas, or 'sheaths', described in the Vedanta. The gross body corresponds to the annamayakosha and the pranamayakosha, the subtle body to the manomayakosha and the vijnanamayakosha, and the causal body to the anandamayakosha.
The Mahakarana, the Great Cause, is beyond the five sheaths. When Chaitanya's mind merged in That, he would go into samadhi. This is called the nirvikalpa or jada samadhi.
"While conscious of the outer world, Chaitanya sang the name of God; while in the state of partial consciousness, he danced with the devotees; and while in the inmost state of consciousness, he remained absorbed in samadhi."
M. (to himself): "Is the Master hinting at the different states of his own mind? There is much similarity between Chaitanya and the Master."

If we read The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence,this will be clear to us.It is only the expression that is different-that is all.

Sri Ramakrishna says so simply:
"One should not harbour malice toward any person or any opinion. The believers in the formless God and the worshippers of God with form are all,without exception, going toward God alone. The jnani, the yogi, the bhakta-all, without exception, are seeking Him alone. The follower of the path of knowledge calls Him 'Brahman'. The yogi calls Him 'Atman' or 'Paramatman'. The bhakta calls Him 'Bhagavan'.
Further, it is said that there is the Eternal Lord and His Eternal Servant
."
JAYGOPAL: "How can we know that all paths are true?"
MASTER: "A man can reach God if he follows one path rjghtly. Then he can learn about all the other paths. It is like reaching the roof by some means or other. Then one is able to climb down by the wooden or stone stairs, by a bamboo pole, or even by a rope.
"A devotee can know everything when God's grace descends on him. If you but realize Him, you will be able to know all about Him. You should somehow meet the master of a house and become acquainted with him; then he himself will tell you how many houses he
owns and all about his gardens and government seurities
."

Please compare what Sri Ramakrishna says with what Sri Krishna has said as quoted by you.

Namaskar.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #341 on: July 19, 2013, 08:10:03 PM »
Thank you, Sri Ravi! Excellent answer!
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Question about free will
« Reply #342 on: July 22, 2013, 11:26:52 AM »
Our attitude about free will is very important for how will live our life. There is two concept about free will among Indian and all religions. On one side we are taught to be good, to leave money to charities and so on, to change ourselves. On the other side Sages like Ramana taught that we have no control over ourselves. That the only thing which we must do is to 'search' our own Self, to be as we are but to do Atma-vichara at the same time. So what must be our attitude here? Is that mean that I can continue for example to go to pubs, to drink, to sleep with as much girls as I can and the only thing that I must do is Atma-vichara because I have no control over myself? But if that so why almost all Sages in all religions teach to change ourselves to be better people? I am confused.  :-\
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Question about free will
« Reply #343 on: July 22, 2013, 11:29:27 AM »
Our attitude about free will is very important for how will live our life. There are two concepts about free will among Indian and all religions. On one side we are taught to be good, to leave money to charities and so on, to change ourselves. On the other side Sages like Ramana taught that we have no control over ourselves. That the only thing which we must do is to 'search' our own Self, to be as we are but to do Atma-vichara at the same time. So what must be our attitude here? Is that mean that I can continue for example to go to pubs, to drink, to sleep with as much girls as I can and the only thing that I must do is Atma-vichara because I have no control over myself? But if that so why almost all Sages in all religions teach to change ourselves to be better people? I am confused.  What should I do or do nothing? :-\
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6100
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #344 on: July 22, 2013, 05:06:38 PM »
Dear Hari,

My adittude is that we have free will,and all that talk about not having it we are using just to jastify ourselfs. Other thing,about not really having it,is true too,but only from the stand point of a Jnani. So long we are believing we are the body,so long free will exist. I think we chose to believe that we dont have it only when it suits us. For example,when we desperatly want and pursue something,we are not prone to believe same thing,when we fail to accomplish it. We try and try over again. Then there is no thought of free will. We have a free will to chose good over false. That is indeed non violence. Now,when we have some deep rooted habits,it is not an easy thing. It needs strong will,and most of us truly dont have it. Then,our only solution is to reflext deeply,to analise ourselves,to see what make us do things we do. That means to be honest with ourselves,coz,what we will see is not plesant and it can truly hurt us. But not that much as avoiding it. Awareness is indeed cure for everything. Constant introspection is needed and our folowing of our Guru words.
It is all natural,we all suffer from this or that. All of us. And I think that only God can heal us,only His love. So what we can do? Just to pray over and over,to reflect,to remain aware,and to give us completely to God. Then,all will go away one by one. Not over night,but it will. We all struggle with this ego,but all of us will be saved too. And we must aspire not to harm anyone,or ourselves. We must try. Little by little.
What is the impuls to drink really? I think it is the means to avoid this so called reality,way to run away,way to drown our pain,our emptiness. But,would it go away? No in this way. It will only makes us more empty and it eats our soul. Same with promiscuity. It is,either,our need to get affection,or,more likely,masked revenge. From some trauma,something unplesant from childhood. We all suffer from many maladies,hidding them deep Inside and try to run away. But that is not the solution,only reflection,awareness and Atma vichara,and love are solutions. Only God. Nothing else.

All will be well,dear Hari! With all of us!:)

With love and prayers,