Author Topic: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta  (Read 174878 times)

Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #255 on: May 29, 2013, 03:29:46 PM »
I found a dialogue between Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and His student. He asked very important questions which make me wonder... Actually do we really know what we are trying to find out...

Questioner: It is a matter of daily experience that on waking up the world suddenly appears. Where does it come from?

Maharaj: Before anything can come into being there must be somebody to whom it comes. All appearance and disappearance presupposes a change against some changeless background.

Q: Before waking up I was unconscious.

M: In what sense? Having forgotten, or not having experienced? Don't you experience even when unconscious? Can you exist without knowing? A lapse in memory: is it a proof of non-existence? And can you validly talk about your own non-existence as an actual experience? You cannot even say that your mind did not exist. Did you not wake up on being called? And on waking up, was it not the sense 'I am' that came first? Some seed consciousness must be existing even during sleep, or swoon. On waking up the experience runs: 'I am -- the body -- in the world. It may appear to arise in succession but in fact it is all simultaneous, a single idea of having a body in a world. Can there be the sense of 'I am' without being somebody or other?
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Jewell

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #256 on: May 29, 2013, 03:58:18 PM »
Dear Hari,

When you said non-existence,did you ment on the teachings that to arive to the Truth we must not exist? The way i see it,they ment that this separate existence,this personality,existence the way we know it,with birth,decay and death,must go. Existence the way we know it and see it. I think that it is body consciousness that must go,coz in reality it is not limited on body-mind,but it is all pervasive. All that there is,the world and all the objects have existence only in consciousness. Coz consciousness is like a form of energy creating all this. I think thats why Maharaj made distinction betwean Consciousness and Awareness. Like betwean body,limited consciousness,where exist division,and the one who is consciousness,and Awareness,which is just that,without the one who is aware and the objects to be aware of. It is just That. At least,thats the way i understood. But all the words are so limited,and can implt many things,thats the problem.

With love and prayers,

Jewell

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #257 on: May 29, 2013, 04:10:15 PM »
Here is one beautiful explanation from Sri Aurobindo:


Consciousness is a fundamental thing, the fundamental thing in existence  it is the energy, the motion, the movement of consciousness that creates the universe and all that is in it  not only the macrocosm but the microcosm is nothing but consciousness arranging itself. For instance, when consciousness in its movement or rather a certain stress of movement forgets itself in the action it becomes an apparently unconscious” energy; when it forgets itself in the form it becomes the electron, the atom, the material object. In reality it is still consciousness that works in the energy and determines the form and the evolution of form. When it wants to liberate itself, slowly, evolutionarily, out of Matter, but still in the form, it emerges as life, as animal, as man and it can go on evolving itself still farther out of its involution and become something more than mere man.
-- Sri Aurobindo, "The Life Divine", pp. 236-7.
 
Consciousness is usually identified with mind, but mental consciousness is only the human range which no more exhausts all the possible ranges of consciousness than human sight exhausts all the gradations of colour or human hearing all the gradations of sound — for there is much above or below that is to man invisible and inaudible. So there are ranges of consciousness above and below the human range, with which the normal human [consciousness] has no contact and they seem to it unconscious...."

Jewell

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #258 on: May 29, 2013, 04:34:52 PM »
I think that that kind of answers we can get only from a Yogi. I think that Jnanis are not so much interested in explaning detaily functions inside of illusion. In the way,that they never give strict answer to some questions,but only give hints and show us where to look,so can we see for ourselves. I believe there is a good reason behind that.

Nagaraj

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #259 on: May 29, 2013, 04:41:21 PM »
Today a question arised in me. What 'non-existence' would mean? What non-existence would be? What are the criteria for existence and non-existence? Is consciousness the only criteria for existence? If it is so then how to tell that we exist during deep sleep when we are unconscious? And what is unconsciousness? Is that just "lack of experience"? What do you think?

There is no "non-existence"! Even if there is "non-existence", there must be somebody to acknowledge something as "non-existence" - That can never be "non-existent"

What is, ever is! There is no time that it never was, and never will "never-be"! as the scriptures declare!

The question is what consciousness is? Some example, please.

You are consciousness, Thou Art That, Tat Tvam Asi. Prajnyaanam Brahma. Thou Art that which cognizes everything, yet remains unstained and untouched and unaffected and has no judgement or views or opinions or even a least bit of volition towards anything. That Art Thou. So say the Vedic scriptures!

You asked for an example, to facilitate that, You are that consciousness like that Sun, and your asking what consciousness is like Sun asking what is Sun, or like a man asking who is a man and so on.

Does the Sun need to see its reflection in water body to know itself?

Thou Art That

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #260 on: May 29, 2013, 04:48:19 PM »
Dear Jewell,

No.  The Brahma Jnani, Sri Ramana has also explained the illusion in detail.  You should pick up the relevant conversations in
Talks and see.  In fact, the illusion of Jiva, world, and ignorance which three main illusions have been explained by Sri Bhagavan
in detail in many of His conversations.

See Talks nos. 17, 28, 142, 144 and 146 for illusion.
See Talks Nos. 46, 49, 104, 106, 197, 199, 249, 263, 396, 473, 575, 636, 289, 363, 496, and 612 for ignorance. 
See Talks No. 17, 28, 142 144, and 446 for unreality of ignorance.
See Talks No. 112 and 398 for unreality of the individuality.

Arunachala Siva.

 

Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #261 on: May 29, 2013, 04:50:28 PM »
Today a question arised in me. What 'non-existence' would mean? What non-existence would be? What are the criteria for existence and non-existence? Is consciousness the only criteria for existence? If it is so then how to tell that we exist during deep sleep when we are unconscious? And what is unconsciousness? Is that just "lack of experience"? What do you think?

There is no "non-existence"! Even if there is "non-existence", there must be somebody to acknowledge something as "non-existence" - That can never be "non-existent"

What is, ever is! There is no time that it never was, and never will "never-be"! as the scriptures declare!

The question is what consciousness is? Some example, please.

You are consciousness, Thou Art That, Tat Tvam Asi. Prajnyaanam Brahma. Thou Art that which cognizes everything, yet remains unstained and untouched and unaffected and has no judgement or views or opinions or even a least bit of volition towards anything. That Art Thou. So say the Vedic scriptures!

You asked for an example, to facilitate that, You are that consciousness like that Sun, and your asking what consciousness is like Sun asking what is Sun, or like a man asking who is a man and so on.

Does the Sun need to see its reflection in water body to know itself?

Thou Art That

--

As a man I need to see my reflection to know that I am a man (my face). Although the only thing that I would know is that I exist.
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Nagaraj

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #262 on: May 29, 2013, 04:58:17 PM »
As a man I need to see my reflection to know that I am a man (my face). Although the only thing that I would know is that I exist.

Consider yourself in a dark room, would you require some instrument to know that you exist? Even as reasoned by you that you would require to see a reflection to know that I am a man, is not correct as without prior knowledge of what a man is, you would never know you are man even if you see your reflection. Therefore without the interpretation of conditioned knowledge, you can never know anything!

But the Self Existence, is different, you do not need any conditional knowledge to know that you exist. That which is Self Known without the aid of any interpretation of any knowledge is Self alone, that which is the facilitator of all knowledge to exist is itself beyond any knowledge.

That Art Thou, so say the scriptures.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #263 on: May 29, 2013, 05:02:58 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

I didnt ment on that. I ment He will not explane or deal,or approach it in the same manner Yogis do,coz Jnani aims to lead You directly to the Truth,non dual Truth. And there are some questions which are only from the body-mind point of view. In the way that they are not valid. I didnt ment on this questions Hari asked,but in general. Like there are also questions which cannot be answered,for all sorts of reasons. Like when people asked something Bhagavan,and He answered with question:"Who is the one who question that,Who are You...etc". I ment on that kind of hints.

With love and prayers,

Jewell

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #264 on: May 29, 2013, 05:19:53 PM »
More because behind some questions are some things which only Jnani can see. The reason for that same question,or simply,they know how to make that question non important and empty. I am not sure how to explane what i think. Conversation betwean Maharaj and questioner promped me to say that,coz it is obvious that Maharaj,with His questions,wanted to point on not validness of question,in a way it is only like that(his impression of consciousness)in the questioners eyes. Well,this is closest i can explane in english what i ment.

With love and prayers,

Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #265 on: May 29, 2013, 06:24:06 PM »
What I know from my personal experience is that or I am conscious of world, dream or I am not conscious at all. Is it supposed that we have experienced sometimes the so called pure consciousness? Have any of you experienced pure consciousness even for a second?
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #266 on: May 29, 2013, 06:29:51 PM »
Dear Hari,

I have experienced Pure Consciousness as a glimpse several times.  But it does not remain permanently and eternally.
Perhaps this make time, more sadhana and more self surrender and Self Inquiry.

Arunachala Siva.   

Jewell

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #267 on: May 29, 2013, 06:44:44 PM »
Dear Hari,

We are Pure Consciousness,the one who needs to experience this or that is false. We need to get rid of experiencer. I think that question is how we know we were unconscious...

With love and prayers,

Nagaraj

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #268 on: May 29, 2013, 07:53:27 PM »
What I know from my personal experience is that or I am conscious of world, dream or I am not conscious at all. Is it supposed that we have experienced sometimes the so called pure consciousness? Have any of you experienced pure consciousness even for a second?

Dear Hari,

There is no experience of Consciousness, you are Consciousness. The Self is experience-less. It is itself Experience. To experience there has to be another to experience. That which is subject to experience is not you. The Self is beyond experience. Can the Sun experience itself? can the tongue taste itself? Can the eyes see itself? Can Experience experience itself? That Thou Art!

There is no time no one is not experiencing the pure consciousness. By experience, i mean, knowing! The Pure Consciousness can never be subject to being covered by ignorance or sheaths. Can the Sun be covered by Clouds? More over that the clouds are covering the Sun is also only known because of the Sun's light only. Therefore, even when one says he is ignorant of Self or pure consciousness is not true. Even if one says he experiences the pure consciousness in breaks and few seconds and loses also is not really true.

The pure consciousness is always shining. Never hidden. It can never be not known. It is ever knowing, Even shining, It is!

--

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Various quotes and musings in the light of Vedanta
« Reply #269 on: May 29, 2013, 08:32:38 PM »
Dear Hari,

We are Pure Consciousness,the one who needs to experience this or that is false. We need to get rid of experiencer. I think that question is how we know we were unconscious...

With love and prayers,

"We are Pure consciousness" is incompatible combination. Because "we" is "I+he/she/it" = ego, the pure consciousness is Atman. The ego is Atman + Vasanas. So what we think we are now is not what we are in my understanding. :)
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