Author Topic: Sat-chit-ananda  (Read 11986 times)

Hari

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Sat-chit-ananda
« on: October 24, 2011, 11:35:34 AM »
Isn't there dualism in the statement that the Self is sat-chit-ananda, i.e. It has three parts. Yes, people say "They are unitary whole" but in spite of that this statement connotes three parts. Is sat-chit-ananda dulistic attempt to describe the unexplainable unity? Isn't the mind which divide and categorize things? What Bhagavan says about that?
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Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 12:09:01 PM »
Dear ramana1359

When we say, "Gold Jewelry" is the gold and Jewelry different?

When we say " Sugar Candy" is the sugar and candy different?

Jnaneshwar in his Amritanubhava has exclusively written about this very topic. Please read as below, I gathered some 10 verses, there are many more:

In Chapter Five, Jnaneshvar begins with a clarification of the ageold designation of Brahman (the Absolute) as Satchidananda, a composite Sanskrit word made up of Sat (“Existence”or“Being”),Chit (“Consciousness”) and Ananda (“Bliss”). It is a useful designation, as Jnaneshvar points out, because it includes in one word three separate aspects, or attributes, of the One. If we say merely that It is Existence, we leave out mention of the fact that It is Consciousness; if we refer to It merely as Consciousness, we leave out mention of the fact that It is pure satisfaction, or Bliss; and so on. But his purpose here is to explain that these three designations are merely hints, and are really inadequate, as all words are, to accurately describe the experience of the Absolute, of Brahman. “Whatever may be said about Him,” says Jnaneshvar, “He is not that.”Such words as “Consciousness,” “Existence,” “Bliss,” suggest to us those states which are the opposite of “unconsciousness,” “nonexistence,” and “unhappiness.” This is the limitation of all language; it is based upon the dualism of contraries which we experience in the world. But the Absolute Reality is beyond all contraries, and cannot be expressed in language. We can only say, “not this, not that.” Finally, in the last few verses, Jnaneshvar acknowledges that all his wordy outpourings are of no use in affecting anything at all; even such terms as “bondage” and “liberation” have no meaning in regard to the Self, Who remains always in the same state of Freedom. Nothing, therefore, is to be accomplished by all his lengthy explanations. The fact is, it is all for his own pleasure and delight in expounding the Truth.

CHAPTER FIVE:
EXISTENCE, CONSCIOUSNESS, BLISS


1. These three attributes, Sat, Chit, and Ananda
(Existence, Consciousness, and Bliss),
Do not actually define Brahman.
A poison is poison to others,
But not to itself.

2. Shininess, hardness, and yellowness,
Together signify gold.
Stickiness, sweetness, and viscosity,
Together signify honey.

3. Whiteness, fragrance, and softness,
Are not three separate things;
But only camphor.

4. Camphor is white;
Not only that, it is soft.
And not only that, it is fragrant as well.

5. Just as these three qualities signify
One object  camphor, and not three objects;
So the three qualities,
Sat, Chit, and Ananda,
Are contained in one reality.
6. It is true that the words,
“Sat,” “Chit,” and “Ananda,”
Are different;
But the three are united in one Bliss.

7. Sat is Ananda and Chit
Or is it that Chit is Sat and Ananda?
They cannot be separated;
Just as sweetness cannot be separated from
honey.

8. The moon in the sky appears to pass through
Increasing stages of fullness,
But the moon is always the same;
It is always full.

9. When water is falling in drops,
We can count them;
But when the water is gathered
In a puddle on the ground,
It is impossible to count the number of drops.

10. In the same way,
The scriptures describe Reality
As Sat, or Existence,
In order to negate Its non-existence.
They call It Chit, or Consciousness,
In order to negate Its unconsciousness.

There are more verses, I could post them too, if you desire

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 12:18:21 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 12:28:39 PM »
Yes, sugar is white and sweet but the "whiteness" comes from the eyes, sweetness from the taste. But in the Self there is nothing. There is not mind to "experience" and differentiate. There is no sense, discrimination, categories. It's like to tell Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are inseperable. But Advaita teaches us that Brahma is Vishnu, Brahma is Shiva, Vishnu is Brahma, Vishnu is Shiva, Shiva is Brahma, Shiva is Vishnu. And they all are Brahman. It doesn't teach us that they are three different aspect (creation, maintenance and dissolution) and cannot be divided. But how can you unite (if I can say so) the sat, chit and ananda? Is sat chit? Is chit ananda? If sat is chit then why call them in different ways?
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Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 12:50:16 PM »
"Vishnu" means that which is all pervading, Shiva means that which is Auspiciousness, and Brahma means, Brahman, the Self. Therefore, When we say Vishnu, Shiva or Brahma, they really signify the Atman and not really their forms. The Self is Vishnu (All Pervading) is Shiva (full of Auspiciousness) and Brahma (Itself) Self (yourself)

AS Jnaneshwar points out, If we say merely that It is Existence, we leave out mention of the fact that It is Consciousness; if we refer to It merely as Consciousness, we leave out mention of the fact that It is pure satisfaction, or Bliss; and so on. But his purpose here is to explain that these three designations are merely hints, and are really inadequate, as all words are, to accurately describe the experience of the Absolute, of Brahman. “Whatever may be said about Him,” says Jnaneshvar, “He is not that.”

Such words as “Consciousness,” “Existence,” “Bliss,” suggest to us those states which are the opposite of “unconsciousness,” “nonexistence,” and “unhappiness.” This is the limitation of all language; it is based upon the dualism of contraries which we experience in the world. But the Absolute Reality is beyond all contraries, and cannot be expressed in language. We can only say, “not this, not that.”

Moreover, Here, it is not an experience, as it itself is the experience and the experiencer as well. To see the Sun do we need another lamp? To know "I am man" do we need some attribute? we know it inherently.

This inherent knowing is described as Sat Chit Ananda. This inherent knowing is continues without any breaks (Sat) and it is Self known, Like we know that I am man, we don't need anything else to know I am man, we are consciousness, which is conscious of itself (Chit), and it is beyond doubt that this is Bliss, Ananda, our true Nature.

Sat Chit Ananda attempts to describe that "state" of Brahman. It states that, that 'State' is continuesly consciously blissful. There are no gap times here in this state to pause for a moment to see how the experience is for the experience itself is experiencer.

26. Whatever may be said about Him−
He is not that.
It is not possible to speak about His real nature,
Just as it is impossible
For one to measure himself
By taking the measurement of his shadow.

27. For, when the measurer
Becomes conscious of himself,
He feels ashamed,
And give us trying to measure himself
By his shadow.

28. Of course, what exists cannot be said not to exist;
But can such existence be called“Existence”?

29. Can what has become conscious
By destroying unconsciousness
Truly be called “Consciousness”?

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 12:52:25 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 01:05:53 PM »
Yes, sugar is white and sweet but the "whiteness" comes from the eyes, sweetness from the taste.

Whitness comes from Mind, taste also comes from mind, before you knew what sweet was, how did you know sweetness? before you learnt what white was, how did you know what white is?

that way, before you learnt these, who were you? that you are. That is Consciousness! That consciousness IS, even before you learnt things, from the world, this is sky, this is blue, this is water, that is mud, even before knowing all these you were!

as a 8 day old baby, what did you know? were you not then? it is the same you even now, but only with modifications of "knowledge" which is all maya, illusion, there is no knowledge, no blue, no white, no sky, no water, no nothing, only you were, are, will be.

that is Sat Chit Ananda

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 01:15:42 PM »
Now I actually realize why Bhagavan said that the best description, which is most near to the pure consciousness is "I am that I am". For me sat-chit-ananda is how the mind experience the Supreme reality which actually is indescribable because is above the mind. The reality cannot have three aspects. These are just words. I am just "I am".
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 02:18:05 PM by ramana1359 »
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Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 01:42:22 PM »
Yes,

here the "knowing" has to culminate into "being"

It dawns further that Mind is not! there is nothing like mind at all. Bhagavan says, this discernment as merging of I into Self!

But it under the veil of our various Vasanas (predispositions, tendencies). Vasanas are the ones that pushes into ignorance again and again. Those habits, Karmas!

Upon knowing, the Agami Karma and Sanchita Karma are destroyed, but Prarabdha Karma remains, which drops off upon "being" the truth!

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 01:45:14 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2011, 01:48:51 PM »
Dear ramana1359,


if Bhagavad Gita appeals to you and if those quotes of Jnaneshwar provided the necessary insight and discernment to your questions, then I suggest you read the Bhagavd Gita by Jnaneshwar. It is called as "Dhyaaneshwari" It is an excellent commentary by Jnaneshwar. personally, I consider the Dhyaneshwari as the greatest commentary in the last 10 decades!

Its flawless and to the point and simple!

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2011, 02:17:40 PM »
Quote
if Bhagavad Gita appeals to you and if those quotes of Jnaneshwar provided the necessary insight and discernment to your questions, then I suggest you read the Bhagavd Gita by Jnaneshwar. It is called as "Dhyaaneshwari" It is an excellent commentary by Jnaneshwar. personally, I consider the Dhyaneshwari as the greatest commentary in the last 10 decades!

Thank you for your advice, Nagaraj. I will.

Thinking about the question I asked I realized that sat-chit-ananda is just the mind. The Self is unconditioned happiness, bliss (ananda), but to say that we must know it (chit), to experience it. But to know it we must exist (sat). Sat-chit-ananda is just the mind's interpretation of "being". It's said because if it isn't the mind can suppose that the Self can be asat, achit and absent of ananda (as you said). But knowledge and ignorance, bliss and misery, existence and non-existence can subsist only in the mind. The reality is just "I am" which we cannot describe fully.

Other way said for me is  "The only thing that I know (chit) that exist (sat) is perfect happiness (ananda)". The catch here is that "to know" means that there is knower, known and knowing. That's why I think that the mind says sat-chit-ananda.
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Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 02:30:59 PM »
yes, absolutely! moreover, the mind is able to see, is able to get glimpse because, it knows intuitively. It knows it exists. I know I am, we all have that intuition within, we seldom give validity to our intuitions! That intuition is the light of Self. That intuition lies because, intuitively one knows one is That, one knows intuitively as I am. Mind itself is the projection of Self. Mind has sprung from the Self. Therefore, Mind is not different from the Self.

Mind is like the various branches and leaves and the root. The Self is the Seed from which the huge tree has sprouted.

The outward expression of Self is termed as 'Mind' and its inward is termed as Self. This again is just for the contentment of mind only, the self is least bothered and at the same time it isn't inert as well as mind and Self are not different.

Mind is the character what an actor plays But the Self is He who is, when it isn't acting!

its been a great topic :) gave an opportunity to discern myself further on Sat Chit Ananda :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 02:41:49 PM »
Everything originates from the Self alone. The 'I' originates from the Self. Just imagine the image of Padmanabha, who is in ananthashayanam in cosmic ocean and from his Naabhi or navel comes Brahma. and Brahma is the creater of this Universe. In the same way. The 'I' which has originated from the Self is Brahma and the Self is Vishnu which is your real nature. Brahma can be equated with the 'mind' which creates everythng, (knowledge) which has created everything. The Self is Vishnu. and You are that Vishnu. Vishnu simple means all pervading.

Notice Vishnu Looks at Brahma. In the same way, the Self is a allknowing seer of mind of us, That which is behind our Mind. That is Self. That in whose presence all these are happening, that is Self! That arewe, That am I



Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 02:44:15 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 02:57:16 PM »
I felt
Vishnu Represents the Sat,
Brahma Represents Chit,
Shiva Represents Ananda.

Notice how all the three are connected in the above picture, yet they remain as one, Adviteeya. Ekamevaadviteeya

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 03:00:49 PM »
Yes, it can be said in different ways. For example, Brahma is the beginningless ignorance (that's why most people don't worship Him, which is the first step of freedom, of escaping of misery, He represents the world), Vishnu is the maintenence of that ignorance (that's why most vaishnavas are dualistic, the mind) and Shiva is the destroyer of that ignorance (that's why many shaivas are monistic, that's why Adi Shankara is considered Shiva's avatara by some, the Self).

The interpretation of the mind can be innumerable. For me Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu, Devi, Kundalini, Ganesha, Krishna, Rama are One. They are the Self. They say that, not me. And I believe them. My Guru Ramana confirms that. That's enough for me. But sometime my mind "creates" questions and doubts which diverts me from the sadhana and it becomes restless and anxious.

I realized that the questions are without end and to find answer to all of them is pointless. The only thing which we must do is to divert the mind from them and to turn it within, to it's origin - the Self. There is no other way. Now I say that for sure.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 03:02:55 PM by ramana1359 »
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Nagaraj

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 03:08:09 PM »
Yes, the interpretations can be any, that which suits one!

Having said we have to divert the mind from all other things to its origin, the Self, upon discernment, we realise that, we are already that. I mean there is no effort that goes in anymore. Effortlessness and choicelessnes, Inexpressible! We don't have to work out the diverting the mind to its source. We are already that source that very moment, All that need be is "Just Being That" Continuous, Consciousness, Bliss - Sat Chit Ananda.

Becoming aware that there is nothing more to know or become and just be!

Its greatest irony that it takes mammoth effort to do something and takes zero effort to just be! But we seem to like the former because, we want to believe that attaining Self is some fancy, some great effort goes in it and we need to go in to the deep relms of the heart and meditate and ..........

Bhagavan sang, Ayyye Ati Sulabham, Atma Vidya - Lo, the Self Knowledge is very easy.

fascinating..... Self

Bhagavan says - "One goes through all sorts of austerities to become what one already is"

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 03:13:03 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Sat-chit-ananda
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 03:15:23 PM »
Bhagavan also says that in the beginning effort is necessary. To be what we are doesn't need any effort but to not to be what we are not is that which need some effort.
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