Author Topic: Fear  (Read 2670 times)

Arjuna16

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Fear
« on: October 18, 2011, 12:29:48 AM »
Hi,
I'm feeling troubled and don't feel like I can talk to anybody in person about this. Last night I was practicing self enquiry, and started to feel 'bliss' emerging from within me. It eventually became very strong. I started telling myself that really I am the self and not the body, and it got even stronger. It felt like 'I' was sinking back to its source (I know that there was still 'I' to experience it) and I became terrified of what would happen if 'I' were completely destroyed. I remember reading about Ramana having to be fed by somebody because he was completely unable to care for himself. Lakshmana swami's disciple (mathru sri sarada?) wanted to let her body die. Eckhart tolle said it was a miracle that he even managed to eat. This all makes me too afraid to continue with self enquiry. How can I overcome this fear? Should I be afraid? Have any of you experienced this fear?

I'm feeling really trapped right now because this is all that seems important, but it scares me so much.

Thanks for your time,

Arjuna

Nagaraj

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Re: Fear
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 09:28:57 AM »
Dear Arjuna16,

Many such experiences result due to deep meditation/self enquiry. Give no importance to these experiences. Infact these experiences becomes a hurdle. Stop not, keep enquiring further who is the 'I' to whom these experiences are seen. It is all the play of mind, about fear and all. These are the very subtle ways by which the mind stays back, creates hurdles in the meditations.

The moment you are able to register your experience, that very moment, the meditation broke from continuity. Hence resume your Self Enquiry. Do not worry or give much importance to these experiences, the enquiry should not be stopped.

Fear is a way by which the mind tries to interpret your experiences to break the continuity! Hence don't pay much attention to your experiences. Just continue. If you feel 'fear' at that very moment, enquire, who is is it that is feeling fear?, who am I that is feeling fear. Go further!

There is no death, There is no disappearing! These are all illusions. Don't pay heed. Only for that which is not, there is death, not for that which ever Is. 

Even after this discernment, if you feel scared, hold Bhagavan's picture in your hand and continue your meditation further.

Experiences/Fear are really hurdles. Do not stop. Stop not! What is there to happen?, Nothing!, Nothing! Just be! Experience is only of the mind, not of the Self. This is a subtle indication to yourself that mind still persists.

Don't try to solve the mystery of your experiences and fear. It will take you back, instead continue with the same fervor. There is no use analysing your experiences. Its a barricade! Experiences, Fear are all illusions!



Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 09:31:23 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Fear
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 10:21:48 AM »
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!
Dear Arjuna,

“ This all makes me too afraid to continue with self enquiry. How can I overcome this fear? Should I be afraid? “

The most simple answer for fear is Bhagavan’s following words (which of course you are aware of) :

The ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their Prarabdha karma. Whatever destined not to happen will not happen however you try to do it.  Whatever destined to happen will happen however you may try to prevent it. This is certain.

Fear comes from the anxiety that something bad may occur.
Let it be so.
Then why do we fear?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 12:06:22 PM »



Dear Arjuna,

Fear comes because you start feeling that your mind is gone. It is the last ditch effort of the mind to survive.  It is the experience
of all that are practicing self inquiry.  You start asking, " For whom is the fear?" The fear is not of the Self.  The fear is fear of the mind.
One should transcend the last minute blockade, sort of last ditch battle of the mind. Sri Bhagavan was not able to eat, because He
did not feel like eating, did not feel like even bathing, and attending to nature's calls.  He did not fear about anything. Because He did
not eat, and was He was not cleaning  the body, someone had to bathe Him and thrust food into His mouth.  After Self Realization, where
there is nothing but the Self, the One without a second, the eternal and unbroken bliss, what is there to fear? Fear denotes duality.   
That is, there is mind and the Self.



Arunachala Siva.

ksksat27

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Re: Fear
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 04:30:37 PM »
Hi,
I'm feeling troubled and don't feel like I can talk to anybody in person about this. Last night I was practicing self enquiry, and started to feel 'bliss' emerging from within me. It eventually became very strong. I started telling myself that really I am the self and not the body, and it got even stronger. It felt like 'I' was sinking back to its source (I know that there was still 'I' to experience it) and I became terrified of what would happen if 'I' were completely destroyed. I remember reading about Ramana having to be fed by somebody because he was completely unable to care for himself. Lakshmana swami's disciple (mathru sri sarada?) wanted to let her body die. Eckhart tolle said it was a miracle that he even managed to eat. This all makes me too afraid to continue with self enquiry. How can I overcome this fear? Should I be afraid? Have any of you experienced this fear?

I'm feeling really trapped right now because this is all that seems important, but it scares me so much.

Thanks for your time,

Arjuna

Hi friend,

there is no tips to this problem.  There is no solution either.

I persisted with nirvikalpa samadhi experience to my Guru in everyday prayers.
One day all of a sudden, it started coming.   

I lost my body consciousness and like a rocket,  projected into a great black cloud of void.

I prayed to come back from there,  I could see my prana gasping with some sound and it was almost death.

By Grace of Guru, I got dropped off into the body.

Rule of thumb is this:  if you still have prarabdha in this life in earth or Para Shakthi has some work for you in this world,   you will definitely come back to body consciousness.

Otherwise, once entered into nirvikalpa,  anything can happen

i)  ego may re-emerge but body may have become dead.  In this case person will be re-born as a great yogi or birth in higher planes.

ii) ego may once for all die and body also die at same time resulting in videha mukthi.

iii)rarest of rare cases only -- ego will die and body will remain resulting in a jnani for the world.

Intellectually you cannot do anything there once landed.  You are entirely in the hands of the Atman alone. 

But if you fear that state,  better do some bakthi sadhanaa.

I have now reduced my prayer intensity for nirvikalpa, because everytime it came,  it was giving only fear to me.

ksksat27

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Re: Fear
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 05:08:20 PM »
sorry,  I dont mean to discourage you from self enquiry.

But I think it is nearly impossible to ask 'to whom is this fear'  when the real fear grips you in the supreme mysterious state.

At that very moment where moment itself loses its meaning, you will only feel a great great force , a roaring wind.

Nagaraj

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Re: Fear
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 06:00:47 PM »
Dear Krishnan, Friends,

sorry,  I dont mean to discourage you from self enquiry.
But I think it is nearly impossible to ask 'to whom is this fear'  when the real fear grips you in the supreme mysterious state.

At that very moment where moment itself loses its meaning, you will only feel a great great force , a roaring wind.

Yes what you said is right. At that very moment, all these makes no sense really. When, initially, a pole is seen as a ghost by mistake, all our nerves tighten and scares all the wits out of us. When the rope is seen as a snake, it scares all the wits out of us. Similarly, when the Witnessing Ego, begins to get glimpse about its own non existence, it gets hold of fear, out of ignorance that it is going to die. What dies really? The body is inert, already dead How can an inert body die really? Here, Fear signifies Identification with body and the fear is all about destruction of this identification (like the fear of a Superstar losing his stardom)

That because of which you got to know that voidness, That from what light you got to know that voidness, emptyness, That from which you were able to know your experiences of fear, etc...  That alone is real, not this :)

Bhagavan has said - Bhagavan said - "that which makes the enquiry is the ego and the "I" about which the enquiry is also the ego and as a result of the enquiry ego ceases to exist and only Self is found to exist"

The existence of Self is not arrived at because itself is Pramana SwaPrakasham -- Self Illuminating! There is no other entity to vouch the existence of this Self. Do we need a light to see the Sun? 

Initially, it makes us numb, unable to respond as we are in the grip of the fear. When we are gripped in fear it means we have identified with that fear. But how are you able to recollect that there was a fear? is it not because something remained a witness all through, untouched, uninvolved, Achala, unmoving? including your being gripped by fear, the supreme states? note the fear, it different from this chaitanya, that reamined still, untouched, like the Bad smell in the air still does not affect the air!

But at the dawn of the light of discernment that the snake is really not and its only rope and the pole is not a ghost but only a pole, the fear drops just the same way the snake dropped and the ghost disappeared.

So long 'fear' is there, enquiry still has to persist. One has to transcend this fear. The fear is just like the experiences in a dream.

Ultimately, we should never forget that, there is really nothing to become, nothing is going to change, Bhagavan has said we are already that, so there is really nothing to become, hence, experiences are to be overlooked and stay put and focused on Self 'I'

Krishnan, you mentioned, after Nirvikalpa, anything can happen, you mentioned some 5 possibilities. But, After Nirvikalpa, what could happen, what remains to happen, who remains to witness what happens? Who really cares what happens? Here the Eeshwara (Self) is Sarva Vyaapi.

Nir-Vikalpa itself means without any vikalpas. No choices there, no two's.

What is Nirvikalpa can never be told. because the 'I' entity is Not. Bhagavan never said anything about 'states' what happens to ego, etc...

When one is in Nirvikalpa, He is not! Once one has attained Nirvikalpa, there is no returning back, where one can come back and recollect the experience of Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

It is only others, who recognise the chaitanya in such a persons and perceive the glowing radiation and peace. Bhagavan was ever in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, which is termed as Sahaja Samadhi

There is no coming back and going forth. Bhagavan has said not to pay much importance to these experiences! They are just illusions of mind.  No Matter what happens, do not ever lose awareness on Self, on 'I' Keep holding on 'I' no matter heaven falls, no matter you feel fear, death, hold on to 'I' NOTHING WILL HAPPEN, EVEN IN THE CRUX OF A SITUATION, EVEN IN DIRE STRAITS JUST HOLD ON TO THE 'I' ALONE DON'T LOSE FOCUS, NOTHING CAN HAPPEN. THIS I AM SURE. Then What matters what happens? let what happen happen just surrender to the holy feet of Bhagavan, the Self.

Moreover there is no coming and going from body. What goes out of body or what comes into the body? Is the body in the atma or the Atma in the Body? To say that atma is in the body is wrong and also that the body is in the atma also is wrong.

One of the Names of Vishnu is Maha Gartha, rughly translated as 'Huge void pit' which sucks everything into nothingness. This is   its significance. The Self is that Maha Gartha

I' alone is truth.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 09:33:47 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2011, 08:32:44 PM »


The Self Inquiry is only for those who make sustained efforts. These efforts include overcoming the fear also. The weak hearted,
they cannot face fear, for them there is only another path viz., self surrender. Here too, of course, the mind/ego is surrendered
to the Self but that that is the end. Even then at that end, one has to transcend the mind/ego fearlessly.



Arunachala Siva.   

Arjuna16

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Re: Fear
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2011, 04:14:02 AM »
Thank you for the replies everybody. Nagaraj, I found what you said really helpful about paying no attention to these experiences and fear, as they are only of the mind so you should not stop. And how there is really nothing to become and nothing to change. That is easy to forget. I was practicing self enquiry again last night and disregarded fear, holding onto 'I' even more intensely. I also printed off a picture of Ramana. Thank you.

You're right subramanian, courage seems to be a must. And I'm imagining the fear that people inevitably experience when the body is about to die, and they think they are that. I'll either deal with that fear when the body is about to die (you could say its already inert, I know), or deal with this fear. Probably best to deal with this one.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 04:42:07 AM by Arjuna16 »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2011, 11:29:30 AM »


Dear Arjuna,

It is not as much the body dying that causes fear, but it is the illusion that the mind would go mad, that causes more fear.
very many people think that that they would go mad, during their efforts in self inquiry.  There is a saying in English that
"too much religiosity will cause anxiety." It is not true.



Arunachala Siva.

S.Subramanian

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Re: Fear
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 10:58:11 PM »
This fear is a good sign.  It shows the ego is losing its grip over the body.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 01:03:04 PM »


Dear S. Subramanian,

Yes. The ego is a tenacious fighter. It does not so easily lost its grip over you.



Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Fear
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 04:03:25 PM »
The ego which we talk about is just an illusion. We should never forget that. the ego which we refer to is just a mistake, its the false belief that a snake exists, while it really does not. The fight of ego is as good as a fight in a dream!

Why would we want to believe that a mirage still exists, while it is not?

Proper and careful discernment of the truth will weaken the disillusionment, I mean, one need not even fight the ego out, it is a simple recognition when one carefully meditates on the truth.

To fight the darkness one just needs the light (not the ordinary light, the light of knowledge) The darkness is not destroyed here, it is not even there. In that spirit :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 04:17:41 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 05:40:30 PM »


Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. That is the path of a Jnana sadhaka.



Arunachala Siva.