Author Topic: the shopkeeper analogy  (Read 4502 times)

ksksat27

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the shopkeeper analogy
« on: October 12, 2011, 04:48:40 PM »
Prashanth  compared worldy work, earning money etc. to the shopkeeper analogy as below:  He used Sadhu Om's below quotes:  Prashanth and Sadhu Om are only too optimistic in 21st century.  I take the liberty with my friend Prashanth to deeply go into this and vomit my feelings.

"Our body is like the shop rented by the businessman.The aim with which we rent this body is to realize Self, while the rent we have to pay for the body is food, clothing and shelter. In order to pay this rent, it is necessary for us to work, using the mind, speech and body as our instruments. If we do not pay the rent, we cannot live in the body and earn the great profit of Self-knowledge. However, we should not spend our whole life-all our time and effortin working to pay the rent. The mind, speech and body should work only for that amount of time and with that amount of effort which is required for paying the rent – for providing the food, clothing and shelter necessary for the body. If instead we devote all our time and effort towards accumulating comforts and conveniences for the body, as worldly people do, we would be just like the worthless businessman who works only to pay the rent and who never tries to make a profit. Therefore, a sincere aspirant should arrange his work in such a way that he will spend only a portion of his time and energy for maintaining the body, so that he can utilize the remaining time and energy in striving to earn the great profit of Self-knowledge."


While this topic comes in one form or other,  again we need to re-visit this whole analogy and the ground level situation in 21st century.

Now there are two types of sadhaks I categorize for explaining this issue:  Those who take sadhana,  very sincere,  strict sadhana from very early childhood and carry on  Category I.    And others who come to serious sadhana at a later age like 28, 29 etc.  Category II

Now for Category II,  definitely this type of doing wordly work only for the most required things of life itself will consume 11-- 12  hours of their waking time , esp in IT industry.

It is not that they keep on accumulating money than needed or otherwise.  It is because their commitments are like that,  they got tied up very badly before coming to this serious sadhana,  now even if they want to come out,  it is not easy.   There may be a family with pre-KG feeds running to one lakh per annum.  There may be housing loan.  There may be dependent parents whose medical bills go very high.  There may be a younger sister studying the costly B.E Comp science programme in BITS Pilani  .  There will be N number of reasons like this --  and now such a Cateogry II person will definitely need at the least 8 hours of sleep to refresh.  So balance only 4 hours  -- for bathing, eating , brushing , going to personal banks etc.

So our Cat-II person like me has to console himself with occasional posts,  then and there nama japa, then and there enquiry.  I dont know the solution, but i know the problem very well.    I dont comment Sadhu Om.  He is innocent devotee who could not even imagine all these complexities of 21st century , where bare mimimum term takes a broader , broader part of your life.

What at the best Cat -- II perso can hope for his,  to stop pedallling for future life bondages, to stop aspiring material thing  (that also he will be forced to desire for  a car,  for jewels indirectly by family).  At the most  the poor Cat _ II guy can blink,  can try acting and consider family as another office with demanding clients.   
And with children , or a housign loan solid 20 years is consumed with full full full time work.

Cat -- I person,  if he is also unlucky, he will take birth among fishermen or among some daily wagers -- where he will be hit and pushed to work whether he likes or not.

Some rare souls in Cat --I  if he has done great punyas, may take birth in a rich family and afford to do max time sadhana. (with all family permission which again is another question).



So nowadays people like me own a shop just to manage to pay the rent only -- otherwise the consequences will be very bad right?  You will be thrown away into outside space.  And just to pay the rent,  you like or not ,  you need to interact max time with material learnings, job tricks,  material colleagues etc.

I close this with a pitiable joke --  I used to avoid high-fi parties that take place in star hotels, bars, restaurants for some time.
Do you know what happened?  That also came as a feedbck -- no team motivation and team bonding I have!!!!!.

Right infront of everybody manager asked "what sort of a team player you are?  "

So people like me has to go to these re-creations,  even though I dont consider them as re-creations any more.
No matter I like the joke or not -- I need to laugh. 

ramana_maharshi

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 06:15:05 PM »
Krishna Garu,

I am with you sir. I undoutedly fall into Type-2 Category.

I like every one of our blessed forum members avoid any team parties and very occasinally go to veg restaurants only if un-avoidable.

Frankly our sadhana is not so intense as bhagavan hence we dare not run away from home and leave our families and fall into category-1.

So we need to get satisfied with our prarabdha karma of being a gruhasta.

Nevertheless we should not get less motivated to Type-1 Category people as hopefully with bhagavan's grace and with our sadhana we may fall into Category-1 in future lives.

As known Bhagavan's astram/suggestion for people under gruhasta dharma is as below

"How does a grihasta fare in the scheme of Moksha?" Bhagavan: "Why do you think yourself to be a grihasta? If you go out as a sannyasi, the thought that you are a sannyasi will haunt you. You will be only substituting one thought by another. The mental obstacles are always there. They even increase in new surroundings. There is no help in the change of environment. The mind is the obstacle. Therefore why change the environment?" -- Talks 54

We should also remember even jnani's like bhagavan ramana should have to divide their time to maintain basic nessesities of life..

He used to beg for food,cover his body with loin cloth,work in the kitchen and help in ashramam activities,ansswer devotees questions when necessary..etc etc

So you see a jnani also has no escape and needs to fulfil basics of life..

So any role(sanyasi,gruhasta...21st century entrepreneur,scientist) played in this jaganatakam controlling ego/mind and fulfilling basic nesessities of life is the ultimate aim.

ksksat27

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 12:32:34 PM »
Dear Prashanth,

Thanks for replying.

That and all of thought creating the problem is very fine.

What I wanted to highlight is that in Bhagavan's time,  work means not over addictive and pressurized work that will eat 11 hours oen one's waking time apart from side effects on sleeping and resting,  the best eg being today's IT industry.

If you see , Maharishee once compared deliverance of office work to a stress free and attachment free job and advised householders to deliver family responsibility with the same spirit.

So Maharishee would not have seen this much stressful ,  burning, pressurized, IT like jobs on those days. 

So that is where I am coming from.  We can remain as householder,  but householder nowadays really hold more , more and more workloads than those days.

And all this excessive responsibility , the Cat -- II takes initially, then blinks,  esp.  after seeing the spiritual taste of Maharishee's path,  they feel why they fell into this Cat --II

Undoubtably,  1950 householders had much more free time whether they did business or worked in govt jobs.

So life was not like this , burning,  as it is now.

ramana_maharshi

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 02:01:18 PM »

Started a discussion topic krishna garu based on our discussion

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6635.0

ksksat27

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 04:53:15 PM »

Started a discussion topic krishna garu based on our discussion

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6635.0

Dear Prashanth,

In my humble opinion,  it will be nice if you come up with a customized routine of sadhana -- work balance for Category II.

Between I dont think anybody wants to move from Category II to I.  Simply they cannot. They are tied and tired.


Nagaraj

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 06:27:46 PM »
Friends,

Recently Chetan Bhagat commented on Sri NR Narayana Murty for his comments on IIT "It is ironic when someone who runs a body-shopping company and calls it hi-tech,...."

Well this is 100% correct, while I do respect Sri NR Narayanamurty also, but i sided towards the fact of body shopping by MNC corporates and they squeeze the youth juice out of our men and make them insensitive, workaholics, stressed, (we can add on) . Would have been interesting to see what Swamy Vivekananda would have done today!

We are extinguishing earth's resources BADLY, MADLY, AS DRUNKARDS AND IDIOTS. WE ARE POLLUTING MOTHER EARTH. BACK OFF ALL YOU SCIENTISTS, BUSINESS CZARS AND POLITICIANS AND OURSELVES TOO. BACK OFF  >:( ! FRIENDS LOOK BELOW AT THIS SPACE DEBRIS -

I am afraid if I sound biased, but I truly side towards Swadeshi model and a NO NO to Globalization! I believe in Globalization harmony model. not Globalization for a business model!

Source: Wikipedia
Quote
Swadeshi believes that, mere rule of law is inadequate to lay the ground for social interactions. A higher order of life has been in practice in India; all non-official community and social transactions take place on this higher principle of life called dharma, even today. ‘Dharma’ - an ancient Indian concept, which has no English equivalent - means ‘that which sustains’. In its wider sense, it implies the nourishment of all aspects of life - individual social global. Swadharma forms the very core of Swadeshi; Swadeshi is the living tradition of India. Though buried under the veneer of the superficial West-centric Indian exterior it is still the largest sustaining force and the core of Indian society, economy and polity.
The essential ingredients of the Swadeshi thought may be summarised as follows:
Swadeshi means that which is natural and native to a country and society, but allows scope for assimilation of wholesome and beneficial elements from the outside. This applies to economics as well as politics; culture as well as technology.
It is the principle of preferring the neighborhood to the remote.
It commands need-based life, and rules out unlimited consumption as an end.
It renews and relies on family, community and society as socioeconomic delivery systems. It does not substitute these traditional institutions by the State and the Market.
It is not autarky; but a global alternative, which accepts only need-based trans nationalism.
Swadeshi restores economics to its earlier definition which even now the dictionary meaning of economy indicates, namely, practical human needs, frugality, savings, thrift etc. and seeks to remove the latter-day distortion of defining economics as multiplication of wants and efforts to satisfy them, powered by greed.
Stated in simple terms, Swadeshi rejects materialistic and imperialistic homogenization and aimless trans nationalism of the Western assumption. Swadeshi is a multidimensional thought, embracing civilisational, political and economic aspects of human life and presenting an integrated vision of life in harmony with nature.

with regards to Category 1 Category 2 -

"The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their prarabdhakarma. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to prevent it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent"

Again, I have the same song to play, please excuse friends :D Categorization is only the play of the mind. We are neither householders nor non-householders, neither Category 1 nor Category 2 or even the third  ;)

These are all absolutely the concepts of mind - these 2 categories and its respective notions! A devotee who has absolutely nothing else to do but Sadhana and another devotee who has got duties to do and lesser time to do sadhana is all a mere illusion! Mind itself is said to not exist, these are like the horns of a hare!

Mana eva Manushyaanaam kaaranam Bandha Mokshah - mind alone is the cause for bondage as well as liberation

"Sadhana" has been conceptualized here (by the outgoing mind)

Why create barriers among ourselves? Why distinguish as Category 1 Category 2 and create difference perceptions between people, of higher and lower, better and lacking? and why make newer concepts and newer karmas in trying to free ourselves from some non existing web, like trying to save ourselves from the wrath of heavy rain in our dream? We get entangled in this illusion of concepts and forget the root itself! We recognise that, Concepts are addictive, like a drug!

Directly get in to the root, stay stuck with "I". Only the "I" alone, which alone is real. Lets believe only in this, for it has been said by our Sages, lets believe them, follow them, even blindly, for if one follows blindly the truth, it shall take us all by itself to immortality! As children we just blindly follow our mother, whereever she went, blindly, not even knowing where she was taking us! for we trust the mother and it never forsakes us. In the same spirit, lets blindly follow Bhagavan, whether it makes any sense to us or not!

Always talk, breathe, eat live only this "I" and nothing else. Everything else is a concept. We should never get lost in concepts....

:)

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 07:40:25 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Anand

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 07:12:39 PM »
Even the boss in the cat II category is part of the infinite consciousness enacting his role in the divine script .Whether IT or non IT ,such Cat II situations are existing in all sectors .
Lord krishna and Bhagavan have said that whatever we have to do is pre destined and we have to do it whether we like it it or not .
The trick is to remind ourselves time and again that we are the infinite self , practice some of the sadhana what Shri Krishna has suggested and gradually purify ourself.
We should also believe that we are in the jaws of the tiger - Bhagavan /Arunachala and not take any life happenings too seriously .
We have to accept that we will goof up,we may say something harshly or someone may something harshly and so on ,the list is endless.
At the end of each day at night ,we should think of Bhagavan and Arunachala and be ready to enact the same drama of life again next day .
We are all in this forum struggling with life and our own tendencies and it is a long battle.
But let us believe that Bhagavan is with us through it all guiding us through our prarabdha .
Regards,
Anand.
Sundaram Anand

ramana_maharshi

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 09:04:27 PM »
Anand garu i agree with your views andi.

Nagraj garu,

NR Murthy has created lot of jobs and helped to economic status of india.

What exactly chetan bhagavat has done rather than writing few novels and gained some money?

So i think Chetan bhagavat is not on par with NR Murthy and hence he really cannnot comment on him.

Coming to your swadeshi moment i am with you andi but i am afraid it is just not possible to dream that whole of country follows this so atleast let us follow and inspire others.


You have quoted below quote can you pls answer my questions please

"The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their prarabdhakarma. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to prevent it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent"


Q 1: what do you mean by Ordainer ?

Q 2: Acc to bhagavan's ajata vada there is neither creation nor destruction so then Who is Ordainer and what is his/her role?

Q 3: What is prarabdha and to whom is prarabdha is to mind/body/ego and why r we worried?

ramana_maharshi

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 10:16:20 AM »
My conclusion as bhagavan said that advaita and knowing that we are indeed self should be only in bhavana.

we need to acknowledge that in order to achieve this goal we need to  make use of our body.

Nagaraj

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 10:35:18 AM »
Dear Sri Prashanth,

that was not a comparison between Chetan Bhagath or Narayana Murthy. This was not a post to weigh what has anybody contributed and who had contributed better to the nation. It cannot be denied, and it is a fact that the kind of work pressure, these companies thrust on their employees by providing state of the art environment as an attractive substitute for the time and energies of its employees and people get swayed by these. It has become a matter of pride for one who works in some branded organisation! Unfortunately, it has also become a measure the worth of bridegroom and brides at the time of marriages. All other qualities are over looked!

It is not a hidden fact that divorce among the youth working in such industries is very high

They encourage work from home and snatch the little time that people get to spend with their families

Blackberry technology is another culprit with calls and emails having to attend all the time

On public holidays when the company gives off, people have only energies for just recuperation and sleep.

The family nearness is snatched or rather employees get swayed, in the name of career building and promotions and attractive incentives and recognition.

In the name of overseas opportunities, so many children have left their parents all alone and got settled abroad.

There are so many who have forgotten their roots and culture and traditions and when they come to India they come with some cynicism.

Bad Marriages and no understanding between couples because they dont get to spend enough time together.

Suicides. well the reasons are endless.

The problem is Economics does not have Value Economics, Economics is all about money, and billions.

Money and job alone are not the primary determinants of an achiever. How much money has one contributed to the nation.

For example.

Narayanan Krishnan - (please watch this video) contributes much more than all the well known famous people.

http://www.akshayatrust.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_3BEwpv0dM

This man goes unknown. There are MANY MANY NARAYANAN KRISHNAN. Who get highlighted is only what media decides or who make billion $$$ company!

Prashanth, you are 100% right when you said
My conclusion as bhagavan said that advaita and knowing that we are indeed self should be only in bhavana.
we need to acknowledge that in order to achieve this goal we need to  make use of our body.

We have responsibility to recognise and support such hidden Narayanan Krishnan's who are out of the range of our minds, we have responsibility towards Mother earth, we need to protect environment, we need to protect other animals, not only humans, we need to give space for other animals also, we need to save water, we need to lessen pollution.

We need to use right discernment to channelize energies towards the right source.

Not everybody falls in these categories, there are pepple who work in these industries and are still able to maintain sanity. They reject promotions and additional responsibilities after having recognized the reality and truth.

Again this is all due to avidya. People don't know, when they get the discernment, the flower blooms.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 10:56:53 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 01:19:45 PM »
Well said nagaraj garu.

I 100% agree with you.

These days stress is rooting our society and it is a big concern.

Working smart is the key sir i.e without falling into trap of promotions,salary hikes etc..

But having said that this formula does not work for everyone as for few people earning money might be the most important due to family conditions and financial reasons.

I donot own any electronic junk agdgets like blackberry,blackcherry,iphone,jphone,kphone... etc sir

I would rather utilise the time reading bhagavan's articles sir.

It seems one in four Indians die of heart diseases which is again mainly due to stress andi..

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/one-in-four-indians-die-of-heart-diseases-report/188432-17.html

I know about NARAYANAN KRISHNAN a year back andi and many people know him sir among my circle and he also got a CCN IBN award as well.

Hard work and our good deeds cannot get lost sir.

Bhagavan has done amazing hard work to uplift our nation and our spiritual values and his hardwork never gets lost sir.

Subramanian.R

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 01:45:16 PM »


Dear prasanth,

The Ashtavakra Samhita says that for a realized person, even batting of his eyelids, is a botheration, i.e unnecessary work.
But, we all, who are yet to realize, have to take up the work allotted to us as per destiny. Sri Bhagavan says: If you are not
to work as per destiny, however much you try to find a job, you will not get it. If you are to work as per destiny, then however
much you avoid a job, it will be thrust upon you.  Our sadhana lies in not treating the work as bothersome, but to do it to the
best of our ability, without aspiring for its fruits.

Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman says: In Srimad Bhagavad Gita/ Mahabharata, if Krishna had prevented Arjuna from work,
do you think would he have kept quiet?  He will go to the forest and hunting animals. Because he cannot do away with his
work be it aiming arrows at Kauravas or animals.




Arunachala Siva.       

ramana_maharshi

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Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 05:59:30 PM »
Well said subramanian garu.

Arjuna's nature is to fight... lord krishna says "what do u mean that u will not fight... your very nature will make u fight"..

Yes sir for a realized person like bhagavan there is no need to work and bhagavad gita also confirms the same.

Bhagavad Gita Ch3 text18

A self-realized man has no purpose to fulfill in the discharge of his prescribed duties, nor has he any reason not to perform such work. Nor has he any need to depend on any other living being.

I remember bhagavan writing in telugu once when one devotee requested that he is a idler (pani leeni vaaadu)

But our bhagavan as known is so modest... he indeed worked for the upliftment of human kind and indeed his divine presence can be felt all over the world.

Even economically he has uplifted india a lot sir..  just with the reputation of bhagavan thousands of devotees from all around the world come to tiru to get glimpse of ashramam..

now all the travel industry economy india gained like banglore-tiru hyd-tiru  america-tiru london-tiru is all because of bhagavan..

That is the power of a jnani where their presence and power will do the tasks..