Author Topic: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations  (Read 3236 times)

Anand

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worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« on: October 06, 2011, 04:40:14 PM »
Dear friends,
This is similar to my earlier post on the same subject with a slightly different tinge to it.
In my life,I am  experiencing that only the most important relations i.e family and vyavarika i.e related to occupation have remained with me and all my other relations seemed to have become distant from me(drifted away naturally)  in the course of my path towards devotion to Arunachala,Bhagavan and self enquiry which as I have mentioned earlier is not intensive, though I am now trying to make some earnest efforts in self enquiry .
Is this a common phenomenon .
Regards,
Anand.
Sundaram Anand

Subramanian.R

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2011, 04:53:26 PM »


Dear Ananda Sundaram,

Yes. It happens. In my case excepting my only son and my wife, the others are keeping themselves at a distance. Firstly they
do not appreciate the teachings of Sri Bhagavan. They are after Sai Baba and other saints. I also do not drag them into conversation
over phone. Excepting weddings and other important religious ceremonies,  I and my wife do not attend or go to Madras. This happens
in the case of most of Ramana devotees. Because Ramana is not understood by relatives, and they go in for mundane pujas, festivals
and celebrations, speaking  about their houses, cars, dresses, new gold ornaments purchased. So there is no meeting point, even
though I love them all and attend to their important family functions.



Arunachala Siva.

Sreeswaroop

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2011, 10:03:06 PM »


Dear Ananda Sundaram & Subramanianji,

It is my experience that not all the people (excluding the immediate family) are drifted away. Even during the earlier days of my seeking, I have observed that people with certain qualities which obstruct spiritual development (for name sake let me tell as negative) keep themselves away. I felt (rather reasoned ) that it was the Blessing of Devi.

Anand Sundaram says that the others are being drifted away.  After coming to Bhagavan I felt that I am being drifted away gradually from a large section of people. Also from a lot of material subjects in which I had been interested.

Ultimately both reaches the same point.

Nagaraj

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 10:25:18 AM »
Yes these problems are evident to most of Bhagavan devotees But we should go above these differences. The very fact that we are able to cognise these differences also indicate the difference perceptions that are within ourselves too. Feelings such as 'We are Bhagavan's devotees', and they are other followers, etc.. are all negative works of our mind. We ought to discern and recognise this truth and Be casual with everybody and not make the differences evident among others as it is the same Self that is in everybody.

We should be like the Lotus in water, yet un-wet. As Bhagavan's devotees, its our primary duty to look beyond these differences and be all loving unconditionally with everybody is my humble opinion and all saints are Ramanar Himself, be it Sai Baba or anybody, We should be able to see Bhagavan in all Gurus, who are venerated by so many people. There are no differences between Guru's.

Bhagavan's own conduct with all people are only a lesson for us devotees on how we ought to live in the world and yet strive to remain in the abidance of the Self.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 10:32:04 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 10:59:40 AM »
and some more views, as a matter of fact, yes, as Bhagavan's way is the Direct Way, for instance, we tend to lose interest on rituals etc... and see no purpose in all these activities, even then we should respect the faith that people have in these and we should participate in all these rituals in the same fervor as they are with the discernment.

We, most primarily as Bhagavan's devotees should not be the ones who make the differences perceived. I felt this is what Bhagavan would have wanted from us

:)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ksksat27

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 11:10:44 AM »


Dear Ananda Sundaram,

Yes. It happens. In my case excepting my only son and my wife, the others are keeping themselves at a distance. Firstly they
do not appreciate the teachings of Sri Bhagavan. They are after Sai Baba and other saints. I also do not drag them into conversation
over phone. Excepting weddings and other important religious ceremonies,  I and my wife do not attend or go to Madras. This happens
in the case of most of Ramana devotees. Because Ramana is not understood by relatives, and they go in for mundane pujas, festivals
and celebrations, speaking  about their houses, cars, dresses, new gold ornaments purchased. So there is no meeting point, even
though I love them all and attend to their important family functions.



Arunachala Siva.

Sir,

I typed a long reply but some error prevented it from appearing.  So I have lost it,  I assume it is Bhagavan's will and so decided not to post that by typing again.

But what you say is 90% true.

Materialistic devotees -- no point in going after them.  They think we have got addicted to some mysterious thing and that we have lost so much in material life and we are some sort of addicts like Hippies.  We cannot convince them.

But those who do some poojas, festivals and adore Puttabharthi Sai Baba -- they are not to be ignored so much.

My paternal uncle is a very staunch devotee of Puttabharthi Sai Baba.   His deovtion is very deep and I have begun to think that such a devotion can be only towards a advanced Guru ,  a true mystic, if not  a jnani.

His breath is Sai Baba -- he has learnt so much love and devotion,  if anybody sees him,   the love will automatically be spread.  For such a person,  rituals and poojas are his life and I feel we should atleast have some general conversation and ask inturn their spiritual well being.

Those people dont fall under the category of totally materialistic --  'car model' and jewellery types.

So poojas and rituals  is never an issue for me -- even I do all this.   But totally material relatives --  we should keep a distance.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 11:16:49 AM by ksksat27 »

arcsekar

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 12:06:28 PM »
Only after completing all other paths in previous births or in this birth,you land up at the feet of Bhagavan Ramana.It is not given for the rest of the people to follow Bhagavan.

Birds of the same feather flock together. Therefore,let us  talk about the glories of  Bhagavan and his teachings among his devotees. Let us not brag about Bhagavan or impose his teaching on others who are not receptive to this subject.Spiritual matter is a private affair.

 When we socialise ,exchange greetings and talk about mundane affairs be casual.When you meet a baker talk of bread,when you meet a butcher talk of meat and when you meet both at the same time talk about sandwich. No need to shun/reject people,who are averse to Bhagavan.To put it in Tamil- thalluvado -kolluvado vendam.



Subramanian.R

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 01:03:52 PM »


Dear all,

Sri Nochur Venkataraman says in one of his Satsnghs:

Each one may have a guru that one deserves.  Let us not denigrate them. But there are people who do not have any
guru, no spiritual leanings at all. They always talk about mundane things. Mostly politics, weather, etc., If they come
to your home, for one or two times, you speak to them generally and offer  him coffee or tea. If such people
come too often to your house, then you start reading aloud ULLadu Narpadu, and explain the meaning of the first
Verse. Do it once or twice like this.

If you do this, next time, they will quietly go away, without even waiting for your coffee or tea.         



Arunachala Siva.

ksksat27

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 02:32:25 PM »
Only after completing all other paths in previous births or in this birth,you land up at the feet of Bhagavan Ramana.It is not given for the rest of the people to follow Bhagavan.

Birds of the same feather flock together. Therefore,let us  talk about the glories of  Bhagavan and his teachings among his devotees. Let us not brag about Bhagavan or impose his teaching on others who are not receptive to this subject.Spiritual matter is a private affair.

 When we socialise ,exchange greetings and talk about mundane affairs be casual.When you meet a baker talk of bread,when you meet a butcher talk of meat and when you meet both at the same time talk about sandwich. No need to shun/reject people,who are averse to Bhagavan.To put it in Tamil- thalluvado -kolluvado vendam.

Dear Sekar,

Thanks for your views.

Actually we dont go and forcibly put Bhagavan's teachings to anybody.

But sometimes it happens that you need to meet your relatives and have to stay in their houses for personal reasons  for few days.  That time,  they will definitely observe and start advising and lecturing that "I should not be like this, I am over addicted to Bhagavan and spiritualism,  I should mingle with people,  be an extrovert, attend relatives get-together,  frequently meet and enjoy with relatives etc. etc etc."

They also think that such people are some sort of Hippies and that their profession is not looked after by them properly and that in this modern age this type of 'vendatis' are lazy guies.   In tamil --  vedantam pesindu alayaraan.   

What will you do with such type of people?  It is that where we need to know how to manage them.   You cannot create enemity and you cannot altogether break all knots.  When they point out,   if you react sharply, it will only spoil relations.

That is where  Anand and  Subramanian sir focusses.   The problem is more for young guies like me in 25 -- 30 age groups.
Atleast Subramanian Sir will be left and pardoned by those 'America loving' brahmin relatives -- as he has already retired.

But for people like me,  wherver I go out of bare necessity , only advice rain will pour.


Subramanian.R

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 03:11:35 PM »


Dear Krishnan,

I agree with you. When in job or business during young age, one has to put up with such people in work situations.
There is no other go. But one can always speak kindly to them  and leave their company [not the job] quietly. Of course,
I know it is difficult, but one has to do it slowly.



Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 04:06:36 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

I hugely face such problems. But am getting used to it :D what else can we do? listen from left ear and let it out from the right :D and eventually they'l get used to it! :D

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 04:39:06 PM »
Krishnan,

There is a big division. Especially after British rule, we Indians are slowly out casting ourselves from the traditional roots of our spirituality. The highest goal of human today may just be to be greatly successful or earn huge money. These are the primary things that determine the greatness of a person.

Slowly, people are forgetting that there is something more than just living eating sleeping enjoying.

Read this -

Quote
AN EXCERPT FROM LORD MACAULAY'S ADDRESS TO THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT, 2 FEBRUARY, 1835

"I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief, such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their selfesteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation."

It speaks for itself!

Steadfastness, we have to remain steadfast. endurance till they themselves come to terms! :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 04:41:44 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 04:40:29 PM »


Dear Krishnan, anand, Nagaraj,


For that matter Sri Bhagavan never accepted the throwing away of the rituals and ritual based practices.  He said only a Jnani
who has realized the Self, can ignore such practices. Once Kavyakantha's son came to see him and he was having a large
flower hair as if he was Thyagraja Bhagavatar, a cine actor of those days.  Sri Bhagavan told him: Are you not the son of
Nayana? Why all these long hairs?  Are you not a brahmachari? Then you should be like a brahmachari.  Next day, Kavyakantha's
son had a tonsure of the front portion of the hair and had a tuft of hair on top of the crown.  Sri Bhagavan was beyond all these.
But He prescribed the practices of the society followed. He also gave similar instructions to M. Sivaprakasam Pillai. In those days,.
even Pillai's had tuft of hair. When Sivaprakasam came with a tonsured head, He told him: do not leave the acharam [practices]
it is anartham [it is meaningless and will harm you.] Soon Pillai also had a tuft of hair.

There are several instances where Sri Bhagavan insisted on others to follow the practices:

1. Two separate rows for food for brahmins and non brahmins. Sri Bhagavan was sitting facing both the rows.

2. He never permitted girl children to have two split-plaited  hair-dos. Irattai Jadai Pinnal. This was considered as unorthodox.

3. He Himself tonsured Head and had His face hairs shaven on full moon days, as per Sannyasa practice, though He
was an ati-varnasrami.

4. After early morning bath, He had vibhuti applied on His forehead.



Arunachala Siva           

Nagaraj

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 05:01:03 PM »
Dear friends,

यद्यदाचरिति श्रेष्ठस्तत्तदेतरो जनः ।
सयत्प्रमाणं कुरुते लोकस्तदनुवर्तते ॥२१॥


yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ
sa yat pramāṇaḿ kurute lokas tad anuvartate (3, 21)

Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ksksat27

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Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 07:18:43 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

I hugely face such problems. But am getting used to it :D what else can we do? listen from left ear and let it out from the right :D and eventually they'l get used to it! :D

Salutations to Bhagavan

Hi Nagaraj,

For me,  even home environment is not conductive.

My parents have started to feel that I am not doing my work and having career aspirations . They think that all the time I am into this meditation, spiritual business.

I have Ramana Maharishee photo,  saradama and lakshmana swamy photo. I play vedic chants daily -- I have bought good number of collection of those cassettes.

I also chant the tamil parayana, thiruvasagan, ribhu gitai etc. regularly.   

By grandma is now 82 years old and she actively listens all my vedantic concepts, devotional stories.  Once she told that I am very matured spiritually and that she has missed Bhagavan in his lifetime.

So with my parents this insecure feeling grows more.  They are worried how I will survivie in IT industry with this mindset.

So I have decided to reduce this chanting and playing CDs .   Also I am not going to discuss about Bhagavan anymore to them ,unless they ask. 

I think my Thiruvannamalai trips are also going to suffer in the due course.

Until my parents lifetime,  my only duty should be to serve them to their best.  My sadhana need not be so public.  I have realised this. 

I dont blame them.  They are right in their fears.

Because what happens is beyond a point in a serious spiritual sadhana,  the question of wealth or bliss will have to come.

The real sincere soul will definitely try to renounce wealth and unnecessary comforts in the search for bliss.  Such a soul wont look for spiritual justifications that 'mental renounicng alone is important' etc.   

Beyond a point,  one's activities will definitely has to be only one way -- either wealth or bliss . Poru or Arul.   Such a person that too in his prime young age is looked upon with a very very different outlook.  If I avoid unnecessary hotel parties in office and remain in the cubicle reading about Bhagavan,  there is nothing wrong in it.  But such a person has to be very careful in dealing with his parents.

So I act in this stage until my name is called by Annamalai to be with him forever.