Author Topic: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry  (Read 2734 times)

Ramakrishnan

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Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« on: September 23, 2011, 03:07:24 PM »
Dear All,

From my experience, enquiring thoughts is relatively easier than enquiring emotions.
Under the spell of emotions, it is hard to seek the person experiencing it.
As there seem to be very little  space between the emotion and the person experiencing the emotion.
How to handle this?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2011, 04:50:51 PM »


Dear Ramakrishnan,

Thoughts and emotions are like twin born children. One follows the other quickly. Neutral thoughts
are quite rare; but good and bad thoughts are plenty.  These thoughts only produce emotions,
again good and bad.

Sri Bhagavan used to tell one story. Two friends from same town, went to Kasi. Let us call
them Rama and Lakshmana. In Kasi, when they were bathing in Ganga, Lakshmana got drowned
and died. A resident of the nearby town was also visiting Kasi. Rama met him and told him to
inform Lakshmana's parents about Lakshmana's death.

The visitor came back after some time. He old by mistake that Rama had drowned in Ganga
and died and Lakshmana would come back to the town shortly.  [In those days, one has to walk
the distance, no train, no bus, no aircraft].  Rama's parents cried and wept uncontrollably. Lakshmana's parents were happy in the sense that his son had escaped death in Ganga and would be coming soon.

A few weeks later, Rama appeared on the scene. He said the true happening. He also said
that the friend had given the name of the dead wrongly.

Now, see the situation. Lakshmana's parents would have cried and wept for the loss of their son.
But they were not so, though their own son had died.  Rama's parents  cried and wept for his
son who was not dead but was alive and kicking.

It is not the happenstance of the event, but thought about it, either directl;y or through someone else, produces emotions.

Though is the prime factor. If thought is controlled there is no emotion at all. For thoughts to be
controlled, mind must be empty.

In Self enquiry, usual thoughts are:

1. Fear, because you would lose your mind/ego

2. A terrible suspicion [vipareeta sandheham] whether this method would produce the required
    result or not.   

3. Anxiety and sulkiness that there is no progress.

4. And anger that the results are not quickly coming.

All are mind/ego based.



Arunachala Siva..         

 

Nagaraj

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2011, 05:12:13 PM »
Dear Ramakrishnan,

This is an interesting topic. Thanks for starting this one.

Emotions are of 2 types - positive emotions and negative emotions.

There are several instances where Bhagavan was chocked with emotion and tears of ecstasy used to flow in His graceful eyes. Tears flowed like a river when He took care of a very small squirrel which had just lost its mother. He wept at the passing away of Cow Lakshmi. He used to be chocked in tears on listening the stories of 63 Nayanmars and specially when he listened to Kannapa Nayanmar's story!

Getting emotional is per say not bad. We should not mix emotion with Self Enquiry. Bhagavan and scriptures have re-iterated at several instances that one should not bring Advaita into Life as in one should not display Advaita in Loukikam (worldly life)

Look at Sri Rama in Ramayana, How many times has Sri Rama cried? there are innumerable instances where Sri Rama has cried.

Emotion is a current and during which the Kundalini is awakened and is quite active. Positive Emotions should never be supressed in the guise of Discernment/Self Enquiry and the Advaita etc...

In Narada Bhakti Sutra, One who becomes affected by the pleasure potency of the Supreme Lord manifests various symptoms of ecstasy, such as slackening of the heart, laughing, crying, shivering, and dancing, Romancha - raising of hair, etc..

In todays world and todays culture, expressing emotions has become a sin, negativity, weakness which is bad.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 05:13:59 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 08:55:34 PM »

Dear Nagaraj ji,

Aren't the emotions, just emotions? Why classify as positive and negative which is highly relative. Getting emotional entirely depends on the individual.

Emotions need not be suppressed. Learned ones have told that the emotions occur when the Kundalini is active. It is only our experience that the both ones happen simultaneously.

Though it is quite OK  initially, the expression of emotions need not be glorified and encouraged in spiritual pursuit because people would be tempted to seek it as a proof for their progress. It also depends on the level of the aspirant.

Once Swamy Vivekananda asked Sree Ramakrishna why he had not been experiencing such emotions. Sree Ramakrishna replied that if an elephant stepped into a small pool, the water would be shaken; but what about a sea?

What expressed by Bhagavan was not such emotions. That was PARAMA PREMA!


Ramakrishnan

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 10:59:58 PM »
answers were all very profound.
many thanks to all of you!

Nagaraj

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2011, 09:12:08 AM »
Dear Sreeswaroop ji,

May be "emotions" per say is not the right word, we could perhaps say "sensitivity" what else can we translate "Parama Prema" into English? I am lost for a translation word! :)

It was not intended to glorification of emotions. It has been my observation that jnanis are very sensitive.

Once HH Abhinava Vidya Theertha Swamigal of Sringeri once visited an orphanage in one of his tours, when he saw the children at the orphanage, tears just flowed in his eyes out of compassion for those children.

It cannot be denied that in todays times, expressions are not appreciated, it is signified as 'bad' thing even for a Sadhaka which I felt need not be so.

One has to be sensitive. Bhagavan said to the extant that it pains even to the trees as well.

A Spiritual person is not a "Jadam" but a Fire of the sun with coolness of the Moon.

Salutation to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 10:54:02 AM »
Dear Sreeswaroop ji,

Here, I collected a few Sutras from Narada Bhakti Sutras which are relevant to this topic here :)

तस्मिंस्तज्जने भेदाभावात्

Tasminstajjane bhedaabhaavaat

There is no disctinction between Him and His Devotees

अनिर्वचनीयं प्रेमस्वरूपं

Anirvachaneeyam Premasvarupam

The nature of love is inexpressible in words & is beyond description.

प्रकाशतेक्कापि पात्रे

Prakaashatekkaapi paatre

it finds expression very rarely in some worthy souls

गुणरहितं कामनारहितंप्रतिक्षणवर्धमानमविच्छिन्नं सूक्ष्मतरमनुभवरूपम्

Gunaarahitam Kaamanaarahitam pratikshanavarshamaanamavichchinnam sukshmataramanubhavasvarupam

It is beyond the fundamental Gunas, above all desires, growing intense moment by moment, incessant, most subtle, and fathomable only by intuition

तत्प्राप्य तदेवावलोकयति, तदेव श्रृणोति, तदेव भाष्यति, तदेव चिन्तयति

Tatpraapya tadevalokayati, tadeva shrunoti, tadeva bhaashyati, tadeva chintayati

When one has reached it, one sees that alone, hears about that alone, talks about that alone, thinks about that alone

कण्ठावरोधरोमाञ्चाश्रुभिः परस्परं लपमानाः पावयन्ति कुलानि पृथिवीं च​

Kantavarodharomaanchaashrubhih parasparam lapamaanaah paavayanti kulaani pruthivi

Conversing among one another with throats choked, hair standing on end, and tears flowing, the Lord's intimate servants purify their own followers and also the whole world.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 01:49:35 PM »


Thank you Nagaraj ji, you are right. I have seen people seek for so called emotions in their spiritual pursuit just for confidence. This ultimately leads them to some mental creations, which Bhagavan had disapproved.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2011, 04:14:54 PM »


Dear Sreeswaroop,

All Maha bhavas, like tears flowing involuntarily, horripilation, a feeling of the heart melting -- all
these come naturally for a true devotee. These Mahabhavas are good but only should not 'act'
as if he is having these emotions. There was one Ms. Noye, who cried always whenever she
was sitting before Sri Bhagavan. Devotees used to say that Ms. Noye had tied Sri Bhagavan with
her tears.  It is true. Grace flowed from Sri Bhagavan because He knew that these emotions were
natural.



Arunachala Siva. 

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Emotions and Thoughts under Self Enquiry
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 01:46:58 PM »

Right, Subramanian ji, the disapproval was for mental creations only.