Author Topic: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem  (Read 11144 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2011, 03:39:45 PM »
Dear srkudai,

I am in deed trying to investigate the reasons for such dichotomy you have mentioned.

yes, there is  contradiction! It raises certain questions whether it is even possible to act without having expectation, to act without having the desire for the fruits, is it even possible! Hence a need arises to question our own understanding as well!

Its not that we are not serious, truly it is because we still have not attained that discernment! Basically WE DON'T KNOW   ;)

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 03:43:37 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

amiatall

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2011, 03:44:35 PM »
Dear srkudai,

If you are not a body, there is no concern whether there is a fan and A/C or no fan and A/C. If you are not a body there is no concern whether there is good food or bad food.
See my point? I am not the body, but neither I AM the doer, nor i am the reaction based entity.  I should not tell myself what should I do, because we already have understood - NO BODY. It is the same trap: i am not the body therefore i should do this instead of this. who is this doer?

Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. ultimately this is what one should investigate, this "something missing" detail  ;)

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2011, 03:48:34 PM »
Dear srkudai, amiatal

its much to do with not knowing the Truth yet and actually less to do with seiousness. If one truly knew the reality, then seriousness is automatic. when a human body is dead, we begin to call the human as "It/body"and no more by his name! it drops automatically, seriousness is simultaneous

Light of discernment itself is Seriousness as result. as In when the fruit is ripe, it falls down, similarly, expectations fall when truly complete discernment is attained. Which as a mater of fact - we don't know
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 03:50:12 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

amiatall

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2011, 04:03:32 PM »
Dear srkudai,

I surely don't know why Bhagavan did that. Only He knows.
Again, I can only undo vasana if I believe in it, isn't it? If I don't believe in it, vasana does not arise.
If i understand you correctly, if you clean yourself out of so called vasanas, then you sit motionless, emotionless, like a rock. But this is not a case.
Emotion arises, body acts, but where you stand in all this scheme? This is the funny part. We are so concerned about dream-world stuff, we forget the essence.

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2011, 04:10:41 PM »
dear Srkudai,

you say -

  • it is the ego that wants to know
how can a non existing ego get to know?

and again in the end you say that

  • So ultimately ... the mind has to undo all its notions ... disassociate itself from them ... and just remain. Thats it.

It is again the mind/ego that gets to know! :)

you are saying again that the mind or the ego itself has to undo its notion and just remain.

Its one and the same! On a lighter side, its the ego that is asking - "If I am not there, where am I? " :D

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 04:13:01 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2011, 04:15:35 PM »
Quote
When someone brought a fan, Bhagavan asked them to take it back. why do you think Bhagavan did that ?

Bhagavan said that because, he was being given special attention in a hot sunny day while many devotees who were sitting down were all sweating and He did not encourage his attendants to give him special attention by bringing him a fan just for him alone! Such was his Samatva Bhava.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2011, 04:18:54 PM »
"Samatvam" is Self itself
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011, 04:27:17 PM »
Dear srkudai,

Quote
So when I say mind is not there ... its not a statement be said ... its a pointer for the mind to resolve itself into Self.... with no one to say. This pointer in mind, purifies the mind and makes it Suddha manas. when mind is suddha, it is automatically resolved in Self!


well again, don't you also see that its again the mind giving pointer to itself? pointer to itself to resolve itself? why should it be necessary? when mind is really non existent? why purify something that does not exist? If only Self exists, why then should ego exists?


I agree with you and and at the same time, what I have observed is that this pointer is not enough for our mind, ego still persists, in the guise of purifying itself.


Why even purify, why cant we discard it as it is with all the dirt of rajas and tamas and satwa? why do we need to make it shuddha before discarding it?


Dropping expectation is dropping mind itself, no matter if its satwa, rajas or tamas.


The bigger point is that even after this pointer, the mind does not go away, it stays, continues...


Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 04:31:50 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011, 04:30:53 PM »
:) Self does not have attributes. neither samatvam nor the opposite.
Self is beyond both. Both sama-dristi and partiality [whats the sanskrit word for it?] , are there as properties of mind in the presence of Self.

dear srkudai,

if ego/mind itself does not exist, how can it own anything?

Samatvam is derived from Sama + Tvam which means - Same are you, you are same or you are yourself which again only conveys the essence of Maha Tatvas such as Tat Tvam Asi

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 04:32:42 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2011, 04:34:46 PM »


Dear Nagaraj,

"samabhavam" is the attitude of pure mind. This pure mind or suddha
manas easily quells itself in the Self. Of course, Muruganar says
Suddha Manas itself is the Self.



Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2011, 04:42:16 PM »
Dear srkudai,

no doubt, these pointer do take us further. nothing to debate this thought! :)

you see my point was that this discussion here at the moment will seem to make us more clearer, may seem to give us clarity. But on the topic of "Lack of renunciation" or "Dropping expectations" in the battle field, we are unable to over come the dichotomies.

Dear Srubramanian Sir,

another thought occurred! As I read Suddha Manas, I interpreted it  as Erase the manas/ mind and what remains is just the Self, on the lines of a camphor burning out itself! :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »


Dear Nagaraj, srkudai,

Mind should purify the mind. Good thoughts should drive away the
bad thoughts and ultimately good thoughts also should be dispensed
with. This is explained by Sri Bhagavan in Verse 5 of Ashtakam.  As
Sri Ramakrishna says, one thorn should be taken and it should be
used to remove the other thorn sticking on the sole, and then both
the thorns are thrown away.



Arunachala Siva.
 

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2011, 04:48:57 PM »
Dear Subramanian Sir,

Yes you have mentioned the best example - "one thorn should be taken and it should be used to remove the other thorn"

Burning out of camphor and yet remain!

Dear srkudai,

:) i to have read/re read/re read these chapters from ABD :)

Expectations do not drop by our effort! when the discernment happens, it drops of its own accord, just like a ripe fruit falling off on its own accord!

as mentioned earlier, when a human being dies, immediately we begin to refer the person as "It" or "Body" only no matter how close the person has been! Its automatic.

I believe that dropping expectations is not achieved by our efforts ALONE.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2011, 04:53:33 PM »


Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Mere efforts would not do. One should also seek the Grace of
Guru. Grace of Guru is the equally essential ingredient. Sri Bhagavan
describes this in Atma Vidya Kirtana.

Saint Tayumanavar says: I tried to reach you with my knowledge. I
could see only the darkness. Then with a lamp called your Grace,
I seached to reach you.  I only saw you and merged with you!



Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Lack of Renunciation --- The main problem
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2011, 04:53:51 PM »
This is the Crux of the situation Udai what you said -

unless we decide, they wont go,

its like jumping off a cliff and leaving completely to the LORD? Are we ready yet to make that jump of Faith?

in that Crux of the situation, just knowing that we have to decide is not enough is what I have observed,

When there is absolute discernment, then we jump on the go!

Do we have that Discernment/Conviction yet?
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta