Author Topic: Mantras  (Read 26791 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 10:43:35 AM »
Dear ramana and Sreeswaroop,

Sri Bhagavan had asked Annamalai Swami and Muruganar ( on different occasions)
to chant Siva, Siva.  When one Rama Sastri from Andhra Pradesh who had come for
Darshan sought a mantra from Sri Bhagavan, He told Sastri: Your name itself is Rama
Sastri.  What better mantra can you have than Rama, Rama?  When Akhilandamma asked
 for a mantra upadesa, He had said:- What mantra can I give you? Pray: Please give me
My Self!  Akhilandamma did not understand this. But she was praying like that!  For another
devotee, who was also a lady, He wrote on a piece of paper, "Om Namo Bhagavate Sri
Ramanaya!"

So, mantras vary according to the nature of a devotee.


Arunachala Siva.

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 10:53:08 AM »
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!

Dear Subramanianji,

Very much yes. Further it depends on the level of evolvement of the devotee.

The strange thing  is  that people see Manthras as a magic stick, obtaining which, they get Punya or fulfil their desires.

Nagaraj

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 11:10:04 AM »
Dear Subramanian Sir, Sreeswaroop ji,

Yes, majority of the people consider mantras as magic words that is capable of confering to them their desires! I felt, why not? what is wrong in that? If one chants Rama Rama Rama, with utmost fervor to have their objects of desires such as:

Please get my son or daughter married to a good family, Please bless me with a good job, please help me with my loans, please give me powers to become the richest person on earth, make me powerful, etc...

I feel, why not? I felt, it is absolutely ok to do japam with desires. But Lets not also forget that the same Japam is capable of tuning the performer's mind as well and bring him to the true spirit of Self and beyond the material desires.

It is better to do Japam with desires that not even do at all.

It is said that even Kamsa attained Krishna by the way of constant remembrance of Krishna out of fear! Such being so, it is fully ok to pray with desires.

There is one very beautiful story as told by some sage! There was one great robber, who was very intelligent and was capable of stealing things without being noticed by anybody. One day, during mid night, he entered a house and after finishing his job, his legs hit some vessels by mistake which fell and the owners awoke and became cautious, and began to shout "thief, thief" and woke his neighbors as well and the entire village was awoke and all of them went in search of this robber.

Meanwhile, this robber, quietly made his escape and he had reached the boundaries of the village, and he was too tired and was sure of being caught of he ran further. Because he had not shaved for some months, he had good beard. His intelligence prompted him to sit under a peepul tree and began enacting as a sadhu with his eyes closed and he sat down in padmasana.

The villagers who came chasing the thief, and could not trace him anymore, while they were returning, the villagers were surprised to see a new Sadhu in their village and the thief being intelligent, his enacting of a Sadhu was so perfect that people felt peace in his stature and began to pay their respects to him.

Each day, the villagers began to take care of the thief Sadhu and brought to him good food and donations etc... The thief was immersed in the bliss of all this, he was telling to himself, wow, I am getting everything without even working! I am getting all jewels and food without even having to steal anybody. He was continuing like this for some time, sitting silently in front of the villagers posing as meditating, and one day it struck to him, and he pondered, just by being an artificial Sadhu, he got so much love and respects of the villagers, what if he were really a True Sadhu. He resolved himself that moment that he would strive to become a real Sadhu and engaged in rigorous Tapas and he eventually became a great Tapasvin.

That way, It is ok, to take some Nama and do Japa, with motives also. Don't all our Shlokas have also "Phala Shruti" "Benefits of chanting" in them? In the same way, it is a good sign if one has that blind faith over mantra, that it shall confer the performer his desires!

At least with such belief, let such a person commence, let us not stop such a person, in this spirit, is what i humbly felt! :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2011, 11:12:54 AM »
Udai, any method is basically fine if one is already acquainted with one. :)
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 11:20:39 AM »
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!

Dear Nagraj ji,

Ok. But my point was that mere obtention/ selection of Manthra does not give the fruits. It depends on the commitment, devotion and HARDWORK ( if I can say so).
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 11:23:52 AM by Sreeswaroop »

Nagaraj

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2011, 11:30:09 AM »
Dear Sreeswaroop ji,

Is not the desire to even obtain/selection of some nama or mantra itself a fruit? :) it itself is a blessing! a result of a blessing. Such thought occurring in ones mind in midst of all worldly thoughts, isn't itself a great blessing? Isn't that thought to even start doing a japa itself a great thing? Such thought is prompted only due to the blessings of the Lord!

Salutations to Bhagavan

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2011, 11:37:28 AM »
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!

Dear Nagraj ji,

Further, the manthras have great effect. As the sadhaka evolves it purifies his mind towards Nishkama bhava.
He may or maynot  fulfil his desires but in practice the desires itself change in accordance with the evolvement.
The Phala sruthis are also intended to ' lead the cow to the shed'.

If the Tamo/ Rajo gunas in the sadhaka is so deep rooted, he may still hold on to his original desire. In that case he may achieve the desire and not the SELF like our great Tapaswins who are told to be in Heaven.

The use / benefit of Manthras are not challenged.

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2011, 11:43:27 AM »

Is not the desire to even obtain/selection of some nama or mantra itself a fruit? :) it itself is a blessing! a result of a blessing. Such thought occurring in ones mind in midst of all worldly thoughts, isn't itself a great blessing? Isn't that thought to even start doing a japa itself a great thing? Such thought is prompted only due to the blessings of the Lord!


Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!


Dear Nagraj ji,

I agree with you. But has one the right to have the fruit of his action?

Further there is difference in Nama japam and Manthra japam. Any one may do Nama japam according to his taste.

Mathru Devi ( Sri Ramakrishna) advised to do 15000 or 20000 nama japas daily so as to keep one's mind steady. She affirmed that it was truth.  Any body can do that.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 11:55:52 AM by Sreeswaroop »

Nagaraj

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2011, 11:56:30 AM »
yes precisely Sreswaroop ji, The desire to commence a japa for fulfillment of ones desire transcends the same desire eventually! One cannot stay put in enjoyment of desires for ever.

And moreover, if a person is filled with Tamo/Rajo Gurna excessively, If such a person is so deep rooted in Tamo-Rajo Guna, a desire would not sprout in him to do some prayers or Japam in first place. That is the light of Satva Guna. That light grows and grows and as one does Japa even out of ignorance, his tamo guna and rajo guna reduces involuntarily due to the effects of the Sadhana even ignorantly!

Like Bhagavan's words, whether or not one does the Girivalam with faith or not, it leaves its effect on the person!
____________

To begin with it, a Sadhaka even if he begins with the belief that he has the right to enjoy the fruits of action. a child first begins to learn abcd... but eventually he would transcend that desire for the betterment of others. He would want to do service for others, desire to help others, he would pray for such desires so as to be helpful to others and enjoy the fruits. eventually he is lead to to that desirelessness.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 12:00:40 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sreeswaroop

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2011, 12:03:48 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!

Dear Nagraj ji,

I think there is a mistake. A person deep rooted in Tamo/ Rajo gunas may do japam/ tapas for fulfilment of desires. There are a good number of examples in Puranas too.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2011, 12:08:17 PM »
Dear all,

Sri Bhagavan says in AAMM :-  When I thought of Arunai (arunachala),  I was caught in
Your net, how can one ever escape the Grace, which is your net?

So mantras have their own potent power.  The pronounciation is important.  It should
have been initiated to you. And you should chant it in low voice with faith and sraddha,
i.e sincere interest.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2011, 12:15:05 PM »
Dear all,

Mantras can be chanted both for fulfillment of worldly desires and also with no desire but
only for Peace. The puranas speak of characters who used mantras for winning the battles
for marrying a particular girl or even to get a child, and even to gain eight Siddhis.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2011, 12:18:00 PM »
Dear Sreeswwaroop ji, Subramanian Sir,

What happened to all those people who did japam with Tao Guna is the Puranas? :) They all died eventually, they, in the sense, their ego had to die eventually.

All the Asuras represent the Ego. And all Asuras eventually merged with the Deity who killed them. All Asuras represent only the ego, the rajotamo guna

They are killed meant the killing of Ego. Ravana, Bhasmasura, Tarakasura, Mahishasura, all did great tapas and eventually got killed by the God. What really got killed is their EGO, they are eternal Atma and merged with the God.

Japam only does positive. No negative! it is sure guaranteed sadhana to reach the heart of the Lord. There is no doubt that the Tamo Rajo guna (ego) get killed and eventually.

The Mantra, or Nama, itsels is so powerful that even if one is insincere towards doing japama, The power of the Japam itself takes one further, it bestows the blessings of sincerity to the Sadhaka. No Doubt about this.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2011, 04:05:37 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Srimad Bhagavatam says that constant remembrance of Sri Krishna in one way or other
and attained Krishna Brahmam. Kamsa due to fear. Sisupala due to hate. Duryodhana
due to enmity and Hiranyakasipu due to anger.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Mantras
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2011, 04:33:16 PM »
Dear Subramanian Sir,

I remembered the story of Ajamila from Bhagavatam, which is very interesting. It is a direct proof to the efficacy of the utterance of Nama of the Lord. The Name of Lord, whether uttered with a sense of hate or fear or out of distaste or even out of intention of disproving the Lord, it still has its efficacy. How can anyone forget the story of the great Tamil poet Kannadasan who was a declared atheist and when Karunanidhi gave him Bhagavad Gita and asked him to write everything that is wrong in the Gita and so that they can publish that book and circulate it among the masses. A. L. Muthiah (his real name) who started reading the Gita inorder to find all the loopholes in it, slowly started being trapped in the admiration of Love of Krishna and eventually he was completely captured and he renamed himself Kannadasan thereafter. Such is the Power of "Nama" of Lord.

Ajamila is a figure from the Puranas. The story of Ajamila is taken from Bhagavata Purana Canto 6.[1]

Ajamila was raised according to the Vedic regulations. He was a perfectly trained Brahmin and had a chaste and beautiful wife.
But one day, while he was out in the fields collecting flowers for worshipping the Lord, he happened to see a drunken sudra and a prostitute engaged in sexual embrace. Ajamila became bewildered and attracted; his mind becoming more and more attached to the prostitute. In Bhagavad-Gita it is said that if one contemplates sense objects, he becomes attached to them. Although Ajamila was a strict Brahmin he became helplessly entangled by seeing a man and woman engaged in sexual activity. Consequently he took this prostitute into his home as a maidservant. Inevitably, he became so entangled that he abandoned his family, wife and children and went off with the prostitute. Due to his illicit connection with the prostitute, he lost all his good qualities. He became a thief, a liar, a drunkard, even a murderer. He completely forgot about his original training as a Brahmin, and his whole life was ruined.

Engaging in sinful activities, Ajamila fell down from his position, and he begot many children through the prostitute. Even towards the end of his life, around the age of eighty, he was still begetting children. It is explained that while he was dying, which is a very fearful time, he began to call out to his pet child, whose name was Narayana. Narayana is another name of God or Krishna. At that time, the Yamadutas, the messengers of death, were coming. They were tying up the subtle body of Ajamila and preparing to take him to be punished by Yamaraja, the lord of death. At the same time, because he happened to be speaking the holy name of the Lord Narayana, the beautiful Visnudutas, the messengers of Krishna, also arrived there. They checked the activities of the Yamadutas, refusing to allow them to take Ajamila for punishment. The Yamadutas were bewildered. "Why are these effulgent and beautiful personalities checking our action? It's our duty to take sinful men to Yamaraja for punishment; then they are awarded another material body for the next life so that they can get the result of their sinful activity." There was a discussion between the Yamadutas and the Visnudutas. The conclusion was that although Ajamila was sinful throughout his life and gave up his religious life, his wife and children and begot children through a prostitute, he nevertheless was purified from all these sins because at the last moment he chanted the holy name of Krishna, Narayana. If this single act of the utterance of a four-syllable word Narayana can make such a difference to life after death, what larger worlds of fullness and majesty he may not conquer by really leading a noble life of Dharma in the memory of the Lord? -- so thought Ajamila. And that very moment he renounced everything to which he was attached, went to Benares and engaged himself in austerities and meditation and in due time reached the abode of the Lord. It is noteworthy that a wrongdoer is given a chance to correct himself and thereafter lead a virtuous life before attaining salvation. It is not as if the Lord gives him a boon because he uttered the Lord's name when death was nearing him. It was the resultant of his previous good deeds that helped him to remember who he was and then get back to his previous position. Yet he had to struggle again and do enough penance before he could get salvation.

(Source: Wikipedia)

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 04:35:11 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta