Author Topic: Law of attraction  (Read 6498 times)

Hari

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Law of attraction
« on: September 08, 2011, 01:32:57 PM »
Is there any connection between Ramana's teachings and Law of attraction (LOA) or Christian theology about faith and free will? According to believers of LOA our life is created by the thoughts in our recent birth. Yes, the karma, they say, influence the way the goal is manifested but nothing is destined. Christians believe that we have free will and everything we experience is based on it. Even Hinduism teached that - we have free will doing this or that and according to the nature of act we will fruit good or bad situatuations now or another future life. Everything can change. Jesus also said that faith can do everything. Lord Shiva in His Shiva sutra also said that if advanced yogi wants something it will be achieved. If everything is predestined then what choice do we have? If our longing for liberation or the absentce of it is predetermined then what can we do? If my recent karma is predestined by my past karma and I have no free will to change something in me then where is my guilt? What can I do?

I realize that this matter must be meaningless for the seeker of Self-realization but until everyone is just a ordinary human without substantial spiritual growth these topics do matter.
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 01:44:47 PM »


Dear Ramana 1359,

As far as Sri Bhagavan's teachings go, there is no free will. Everything
is predestined. If some one feels that he has got free will to do some
action, one has to presume that he is pre-destined by the Almighty
to do so. But the person thinks he is acting as per his free will.



Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 04:20:04 PM »


Dear Ramana,

Many visitors used to come to Sri Bhagavan when He was in the
Old Hall and also during later periods. Among the group of two or three,
only one was eager to sit before Sri Bhagavan and listen to Him or
simply sit before Him and meditate. The other one or two, will go round
the Asramam, see monkeys, peacocks, trees and wait restlessly
for his friend to come out of the Old Hall, so that they can return.

Now, in the group,  one wants to sit before Sri Bhagavan. The other
two loiter and all go back together after some time. Another devotee asked
Sri Bhagavan: How come, in the group, one alone wants to sit and others
were waiting outside?  Sri Bhagavan said humorously:  Yes. Some one
wants a cool shade. Others want to stand or walk on the hot sun. Each
according to their pre destiny.

Sri Bhagavan has also said once:

Many come here;
but only a few are called by me;
a still fewer are chosen.

All the three categories have behaved according to their destiny.

In the town of Tiruvannamalai, at least 5 lac people live. Being in the
same town where Sri Bhagavan had lived and where His Presence still
confers peace to those who come to the Asramam, only a hundred or so
come to the Asramam. Why?  When I go to temple and come back by
about 10 am to the Asramam for being inside the Asramam, I see on
the Chengam Road, many were waiting in front of cinema halls for seeing
the noon show!  Why?  One is destined to spend his life seeing films
like Mangatha and one other is destined to be in the cool shade of Samadhi
Hall. Why?

One gentleman asked me in one of my visits: Why there is no TV
in the guesthouse rooms?  He wants TV, a newspaper, and perhaps
a bottle of brandy with ice cubes. For this, he might have as well stayed
in his home.  I am sure such a person would not make a second visit
to Tiruvannamalai. Because he needs TV etc., more than Sri Bhagavan.

Sri Bhagavan has said once to Devaraja Mudaliar: Even lifting a hand fan
from the floor and fanning yourself is predestined.

All the so called free wills are only a metamorphosed
destiny. There is no free will even to exhale and inhale our oxygen.



Arunachala Siva.

amiatall

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 07:09:00 PM »
So liberation is according to the destiny? So who is the doer then?

This is exactly what you should find out. All those talks about free will and predestination leads you to this corner. You must investigate WHO.

In reality there is no predestination and there is no free will. But with linear human mind you will never grasp it. This mind thinks only in a sense of OR,OR and will never grasp that there can be AND,AND.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 08:05:56 PM »


Dear Ramana,

Please go through either English version or Tamizh Version of
Verse 19 of Ulladu Narpadu [Sad Darsnam.]  Please go through
again and again and contemplate. If you still have a doubt, I shall
answer it.  I gave some simple examples and Sri Bhagavan's wordss
to Devaraja Mudaliar.  Your mind seems to go for further questions.
Hence this Verse 19 for your insight.



Arunachala Siva. 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2011, 12:15:40 PM »


Dear Ramana,

"Until we know the Self - the debate about destiny and free will matters."

In which case, I am following the course that destiny only matters for me.
There is no free will as far as I am concerned.



Arunachala Siva.   

amiatall

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 07:34:50 PM »
Quote
19. The debate, `Does free will prevail or fate?' is only
for those who do not know the root of both. Those who have
known the Self, the common source of freewill and of fate,
have passed beyond them both and will not return to them.

I think that most of the people here if not all have not realized the Self. So this question matters for them. My question is why some will be sent to Hell or Heaven if the actions he/she was commined is not hers/his but by predestined karma? If everything is not by our choice why are judged by the scriptures? Why the poor man is born in mysery? You may say "Because his past karma". But this karma is not his responsibility if he has not free will. Then God put some people in misery without they deserve that. I don't believe that. May be most of the events of our life is predestine but there is also free will. It depends on us how we will react to situation and what to do. May be your karma makes you shy and antisocial but it depends on you if you go out with people or not. May be you are born with desire to kill but it depends on you if you will kill or not. Until we know the Self free will and destiny debate matters.

To whom does it matter? And who is this 'we'? Speak for yourself. Have you experienced hell and heaven? Or something from outside told you some stories and you started to believe them?
Now the same something inside you tells that "this matters, that matters" etc.
NO THOUGHT WILL HELP YOU IN REALIZING YOUR SELF. NO THOUGHT. NONE. And i mean everything must go, every believe, every thought, every idea, everything. You stand naked. This is the fact. Either you understand it and start working with letting go of all this mess, or you may hide behind concepts and dwell in them... whatever you like.

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 08:51:24 PM »


Dear amiatall,

Yes. Summa Iru - is the summary of Sri Bhagavan's teachings.
Summa iruthal or being still is cleaning of all thoughts, all garbages,
including thoughts about heaven and hell, thoughts about destiny
and free will, all thoughts, even thoughts like I am realized, I am not
realized etc., Even thoughts about bondage and freedom are thoughts
of a bound one.  The silence in Summa Iru - means the silence of the
high order, silence that quells all thoughts, good, bad, ugly and even
neutral thoughts. Because all thoughts sprout from the ego. Sri
Bhagavan closes the Ulladu Narpadu, ahanthai uru azhithale mukti.
The destruction of the ego-form is liberation.



Arunachala Siva.

Anand

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2011, 08:31:47 AM »
Requesting Subramanian Sir, if okay ,to enlighten us ,with whatever he has studied or heard  on    Verse 19 of Ulladu Narpadu Sad Darsanam.
In a certain sense, it is enlightening that all is 'His' will .With all the mischief that the ego is capable of, I am sure that God will not have a plan in which his universe is run by the mischievous ego.
The ego  feels it is  doing,but everything is actually done by 'him'.
So whether we like it or not or even when we are feeling that we are  doing a particular  act out of free will ,in reality every action that actually gets performed  is his will only.
Otherwise we negate the omniscient nature of GOD.The future cannot be outside his purview.
Regards,
Anand.
Sundaram Anand

Subramanian.R

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2011, 02:01:16 PM »


Dear Ramana 1359,

Yes. That is why, though He had said that ego must be destroyed, many
people are reluctant to do away with the ego and so He advised surrender.
The surrender begins with ego in full size but slowly it becomes thinner
and thinner and finally disappears in total self surrender. Surrender is also
difficult to begin with. But at least there is a concession to keep the ego
with us and submit it only at the end. Nin ishtam en ishtam said Sri
Bhagavan. He also advised the same to His Mother Azhagamma,
when she came for the first time and requested Him to come back.
He said: Everything is ordained by God. He runs everything. It is better
to be silent.



Arunachala Siva.   

nonduel

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 04:51:41 PM »
All these questions arise because of the belief "I am a body", "I am the doer".

This body has no free will, even scratching his head is predestined. The question arise because of a mistaken identification.

Surrendering the ego is letting go of all these questions and to abide in the self. Not worrying what will or happens to the ego. Being detached. Not taking the thoughts as ours.

Does one worry about all of this during deep sleep? Isn't it clear that all of this arrises once the ego rises on waking? Isn't this proof of its unreality?

Surrendering to Baghavan is letting go of all of the questions of the mind and to rest in His Grace.

Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 05:14:32 PM »


Dear Ramana 1359,

Ask, thy shall be given. Knock, it will be opened.  What is asking?
What is knocking?  Is it for worldly benefits and pleasures.  Would
Jesus have said this only for worldly benefits?  I believe, No. He
is telling you to ask for his grace. He is telling you to knock at the
door of Kingdom of Father. These are all spiritual efforts for the
ultimate good. Not for worldly good. Because the worldly good shall
not last long.

A group of politicians wanted to make Rs. 2.76 lac crores.  They also
made it. But could they enjoy it.  With in a year, they are in jails.
All worldly happiness ends in misery.  Sri Bhagavan says the only
real sukam, happiness or bliss is Atma Sukam. [Who am I?]



Arunachala Siva.     

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 05:17:27 PM »
This is my first post on this forum. 

Subramaniam Sir,  I want to tell you how much I love your posts. Sometimes, I scroll down and read them only.  :)
 
One of the first things I noticed about the Ramanasramam rooms is no T.V.  and I thought "Thank God,  I don't have to listen to it blaring in someone else's room." Coming out of a hospital (it shall go nameless), I could hear the T.V.  blaring night and day in other rooms. The hospitals attitude was we make them pay extra if they want T.V.  But I asked "What about patients? They need quiet time to heal"   Ramanasramam was more than a soothing balm for me. I spent some quality time there just being with Bhagawan and Arunachala two years.

I would like to go back to Tiruvannamalai soon.  Is the construction in the asramam over? 


amiatall

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 05:25:22 PM »
Dear devotees,

From Spiritual Instruction of Sri Ramana Maharshi (8th edition 1974)

21. If everything happens according to karma (prarabdha: the result of one’s acts in the past)
how is one to overcome the obstacles to meditation (dhyana)?

Prarabdha concerns only the out-turned, not the in-turned mind. One who seeks his real Self will
not be afraid of any obstacle.


This answer should satisfy most of the minds of the seekers.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Law of attraction
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2011, 06:22:07 PM »


Dear amiatall,

Yes. It is a very good reply. Sri Bhagavan says in Arunachala Akshara
Mana Maalai: Chy enath thaLLil seivinai sudum, athaal uyvahari ethu
uRai, Arunachala?  If you keep me away, then the sei vinai, prarabdha
will act upon me. I cannot progress [uvahai].  [Please therefore keep
me at Your feet].  In other words, He does not keep us away; our out-going
mind keeps us away. When the mind is inturned, we are at His feet.
Prarabdha will not wag its tail.



Arunachala Siva.