Karma

[Subramanian.R]

Dear kde,

The Asramam has been giving food for all beggars and destitutes first
in the morning at 10.30 a.m. Everyday some 300 to 400 people stand in the queue and take the food. In festival days like Sri Bhagavan's
birthday or Maha Deepam day, this crowd swells to 2000. 

THEN only the visitors and inmates are given food but here it is both morning and evening. About 200 everyday and the number will be 2000 on festival days.

This practice is nowhere else in this world. The Maths first serve to brahmins and then to non brahmins and then only to beggars. But
Sri Bhagavan Himself changed the procedure and made the beggars to be served food first.   

They do not charge anything. But if someone offers contributions,
they accept it.  They do not ask anything first of all.



Arunachala Siva.   

[kde]

Dear Subramanian, I like that Sri Ramana changed it so beggers were served first, that's one of the things we all love Ramana for. I expect that caused a bit of fuss too!

[Subramanian.R]

Dear kde,

Yes. The background story is like this:

Once there was a big rush for food. Some beggars and sadhus were
trying to enter the dining hall.  One uninitiated devotee shouted:
For Paradesis [literally beggars and sadhus] it is only second batch.

Soon visitors went inside the dining hall. But they did not find Sri
Bhagavan.  They searched for Him.  He was sitting with monkeys in the nearby orchard called Palakottu.  Some one went near Him and asked Him:  Bhagavan!  We are all waiting for you!

Sri Bhagavan said: "Why should you wait?  You can all eat. I am a Paradesi. I should eat only in the second batch!"

From this incident, the sadhus and beggars were given food first.
Even today this practice is followed.



Arunachala Siva. 

[Jyoti]

I the grace of God bound to Karma or is it free?

Individuals have to suffer their Karmas but Iswara manages to make the best of their Karmas for his purpose. God manipulates the fruits of Karma but he does not add or take away from it.

Suppose a man is unemployed, prays to God for a job and finds one
Does this man get the job
- because of his Karma
- because of the gace of god
- because it was his Karma to get the grace of God       ?

When according to his Karma it is impossible for the man to find employment, is it not impossible for God to let the man find a job because "Ishvara does not add or take away from Karma"?

[saraskrishna]

Dear Jyoti,

Why are you so much bothered about karma? Our duty is to practice self-enquiry as much as possible, if it seems to be difficult, one can keep chanting "Arunachala Siva". 

We are supposed to do only this and rest all sorts of karma and etc will be taken care by Bhagvan.  Surrender it to HIM.
Don't worry too much.. for Sadguru Shankara once said, Worries are disease created from immatured mind.

When did you come to know about Bhagavan? I mean at what age or time of your life were you attracted to HIM? There are people who lived without knowing Bhagavan for 40 or 50 years and all of a sudden they get attracted, then they never leave HIM or HE never leaves them. Likewise, everyone will have to merge with HIM

If a question is answered, it will rise to another question - Once Bhagavan Said.  Rather, get in to self-enquiry.. ask where from your question came up, who wants to know the answer.. practice. 

Else surrender, and keep reading more and more of Bhagavan that will start answering all questions slowly. Never bother more about karma, what we sow is that we reap and the question of whether Iswara will help or not is all for external affairs, leave that also to Bhagavan - The Iswara.

Dont get confused, Bhagavan also said that body and mind itself is the result of karma.. That too will pass away..


with love
Bala saraskrishna

Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva

[Subramanian.R]

Dear saraskrishna,

Yes. I agree with you.  All these discussions about Karma are mental.
When there is no mind [ego] there is no karma or karma phala at all.
When the ego is vanquished, all the three karmas [agami, sanchita,
and prarabdha] are gone as all the three wives of a king become widows
on the death of the king.  But we are not still able to vanquish the ego
and so there are questions, answers and counter questions.



Arunachala Siva.   

[saraskrishna]

Dear Udai and Jyoti,

Wonderful quote " Though, for a Sadhaka, the ideal is not to desire at all. " ... not all have become Sadhakas yet or have they obtained the knowledge of how a sadhaka is supposed to live.. that's why questions keep coming as Subramanian sir said..
However, if one keeps reading and practising all the instructions set by Bhagavan for us, one will definitely turn to be a sadhaka in due course of time.

Jyoti - we have many great souls in this forum to asnwer any question, no doubt in that. I never discourage questioning, I also tried to answer... even I was questioning many times when I joined the forum newly and Subramanian Sir has Graciously answered everything for me everytime with great patience !

All the Glory goes to Bhagavan for having created this forum for us.

A small story that i read sometime back,  i forgot the name of the characters...

There was a great sufi jnani living in deserts of arabs.  He was delivering very high teacings.. Many Kings would come and wait long in hot deserts to talk to him.  One day, he was teaching on the topic of 'surrendering' to God.  There were many people gathered around, on the second day one of the disciple who travelled long distance in his camel came to attend the teaching..

After reaching the place, he got down from his Camel and didn't tie the camel to any rods or rock near by saying to himself that God will take care of holding it. And after he entered in to the small tent the Jnani shouted and question him asking "Why didn't you tie your camel outside?" this disciple was first shocked to hear this as he was wondering how come HE knew what he did outside little far from the tent and then replied "I surrendered to God and so he will take care", Sufi Jnani shouted again with rough tone saying "Do you think God has no other job to do? Do you think God will tie the camel outside for everybody? what fool are you? you should have come by walk rather if you don't serve your responsibility for your camel" .  He thus scolded him and sent him out.

This is where many get misunderstood.. Camel was to be taken care by the rider, if the rider was matured enough, he would have come by walk without bothering the camel and without minding the hot sun.... there comes his vairagya... That is not the case with all, includeing me, as long as we are held up duties from which we are not able to come out, we are supposed to pray and do all that is dictated.. At the very base of the heart, one should be clear about the Reality.. that should be fine. 

If one is unemployed, he can defenitely pray to God for Job.. the strenght and power of his prayer will be rewarded... Again all these actions are also based on Karma.. The effect of karma is considerably reduced by the Grace of God through his prayers or in the other way, the devotee is given enough strength to face his karma and come out of it without worries and sufferings.....


With love,

Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva

[Subramanian.R]

Dear srkudai, saraskrishna.

Nice answers.

Once when someone asked Sri Bhagavan: Is desiring the Self not a
desire?  Sri Bhagavan replied smilingly: "That is the only one desire,
anyone can have!"

But this does not mean that we should not have any desires at all
in life. For that one should live  in a Cave and eat what is given as
bhiksha. But we are not like that.  So essential desires for making
a living and doing sadhana are necessary.   Sri Bhagavan never
discouraged chanting gayatri or slokas  of His devotees.  He never
encouraged anyone to resign his job and come away to Arunachala.
He wanted all of them to have their karmas completed, desires fulfilled
and then leave a peaceful contented life and at the same time, do
sadhana.  He only stressed inner renunciation than leaving the family,
resigning the job and wearing ochre robe.  This inner renunciation can
be cultivated, along with doing all karmas and having all reasonable
desires.  What should be renounced at the end is the ego.



Arunachala Siva.

[amiatall]

Once when someone asked Sri Bhagavan: Is desiring the Self not a
desire?  Sri Bhagavan replied smilingly: "That is the only one desire,
anyone can have!"




Arunachala Siva.

This is not a permission, this is a FACT that sooner or later is seen, for everything is Self itself.

[Subramanian.R]

Dear amiatall,

Yes.  This statement will become a State, when one abides in the
Self permanently.  This is what Sri Bhagavan also says, in Verse
5 of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam:

He who, with Heart to you surrendered,
Beholds for ever to you alone,
Sees all things as forms of You
And loves and serves them as none other
Than the Self, O Aruna Hill,
Triumphs because he is immersed
In You whose being is pure bliss.

[Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]



Arunachala Siva.

 

[Hari]

A beautiful example comes in my mind concerning karma. In the Norse pre-christian religion there was a story about Ragnarök (it's something like the Last Judgment of christianity which means Twilight of the Gods). This would be the day when many of the Aesir Gods, heroes and the followers of Loki (including Loki Himself) will die in battle and new and happy world with virtues, truth, beauty and brotherhood will arise. The all-knowing Father Odin knew that and He didn't do anything to prevent it because that was the design, that was the destiny of all of them. The christians have mocked the followers of Odin - how can follow a God who will die one day. But their objection is this - the body of Him will die for the good of all that exists but the Odin consciousness will remail what It has always been - pure and without limits, full of love and compassion. So at the end the winner is Odin. Christ, Krishna, Shiva, Odin consciousness are just synonyms.
So it is with every one of us - we have different karmas but the essence of all is That which has alway been - the Self.

[Subramanian.R]

Dear ramana,

To put it in more simple terms,  "We are ever the Self.  All karmas are activities of mind and
body.  So the karmas are not the actvities of the Self.  Nevertheless, karmas by themselves
will not confer results on their own but by only due to god's command."

Karmas, however cannot be avoided or done, excepting duebto prarabdha.

Arunachala Siva.