Author Topic: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry  (Read 6715 times)

srkudai

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Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« on: May 11, 2011, 12:20:50 PM »
Quote
When other thoughts arise, one should not pursue them, but should inquire: ‘To whom do they
arise?’ It does not matter how many thoughts arise. As each thought arises, one should inquire
with diligence, “To whom has this thought arisen?”. The answer that would emerge would be “To
me”. Thereupon if one inquires “Who am I?”, the mind will go back to its source; and the thought
that arose will become quiescent. With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the
skill to stay in its source. When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain and the senseorgans,
the gross names and forms appear; when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear.
Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart is what is called “inwardness” (antarmukha).
Letting the mind go out of the Heart is known as “externalisation” (bahir-mukha). Thus,
when the mind stays in the Heart, the ‘I’ which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self
which ever exists will shine. Whatever one does, one should do without the egoity “I”. If one acts
in that way, all will appear as of the nature of Siva (God).

Arjuna16

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 09:50:57 AM »
I have a couple questions about self-enquiry.

I'm very confused about the question 'Who am I?' even though it is so simple. Are you supposed to place your attention on the 'false I' that is the source of all the the thoughts, or are you supposed to trace the 'false I' back to its source? So basically are you tracing the thoughts back to their source and holding your attention there, or tracing the ego back to its source?

I find it easy to hold onto the false, subjective feeling 'I', but how do you trace the 'I' back to the source if thats the case? Does you just ask 'where does this I come from?' and turn your attention into yourself or to an answer without trying to think of one?

Thanks for the help,
Arjuna

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 03:00:46 PM »


Dear Arjuna,

Yes. What is stated by srkudai is cent percent correct. Atma Vicharam is actually an anatma vicharam, enquiring into the anatma,
the "false I".  The false "I" when it driven back to its Source, it becomes the real "I".  Sri Bhagavan says in Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, the same thing. He says rub the mind with the mind till the mind
becomes Ruby.  How to rub the mind with the mind.  It is an advaitic paradox.  The mind is actually the Ruby.  But it needs rubbing to clear off its dust and dirt.  It is like burnishing the gold or rubbing the diamond or a ruby.  The goldsmith's used to have a rubbing stone. Here the rubbing stone and the stone -- both are the same stuff.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2011, 04:27:18 PM »


Dear Arjuna, srkudai,

Ruby is already there. Ruby did not go anywhere to re-attain.
What one should do is only to remove the dust around it so that
it can shine brilliantly.



Arunachala Siva.

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 06:01:02 PM »
excellent answer udai garu and subramanian garu.

Arjuna16

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 10:16:32 PM »
Thank you for the replies everybody. I think I am still confused, but will try and find out who it is that is actually confused.

Srkudai, so you are saying that "I am typing these words" or "I am reading your words" is an 'I' thought? And I should find out the source of that I thought? That would lead me to the little illusory 'I'. From my readings I understood that the 'little I' was the I thought, and that one is supposed to hold the little I and find ITS source. It was my understanding that "I am tryping these words" is just a thought that comes from the 'I'-thought.

From Be As You Are p76
"Q:Am I to think 'Who am I?'
 A:You have known that the 'I'-thought springs forth. Hold the 'I' thought and find its source."

It doesn't make sense to me that you can find the source of the little I with your mind, but it makes sense for me to be able to find the source of the thoughts, which is the little I. Sri Ramana often says to "hold the 'I' thought and find its source", but I don't know how to find its source with the mind. I'm pretty sure I've had glimpses of the self where I held the little I and it kindof dissolved and gave me a glimpse of the real I without my searching for it with my mind. Am I supposed to search for it? Or do I only need to hold the little I?

If I am completely wrong and misguided I look forward to your corrections :)
Arjuna


 




paul

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2011, 03:01:47 AM »
Dear Arjuna16, Sri Ramana has said on many occasions how to hold the ‘I’ thought and find its source . One of them can be found in the words of the song Appala Pattu – the Song of the Poppadum.  The song is very melodic and I have listened to it many times without knowing the words.  It was only recently that I looked up the words @

http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/Tamil_Parayana.html

I believe that Bhagavan has given us the how with the following quotation from the song :
In the Heart-mortar place the dough. And with the mind-pestle Inward-turned, pound it hard with strokes of ‘I-I’, Then flatten it with the rolling pin of stillness on the level slab of Being. Work away, untiring, steady, cheerful. Make poppadums, just try — and these Eat, your longing to satisfy
I have got a lot of faith in those strokes of ‘I-I’ and I believe it’s no more than repeating ‘I-I’ internally.

I have copied all the words from the song below.

THE SONG OF THE POPPADUM
Refrain
Make poppadums1 , just try — and these
Eat, your longing to satisfy!
Supplemental Refrain
Don’t roam the world disconsolate.
Heed the word, unique, unspoken,
Taught by the teacher true who teaches
The truth of Being Awareness Bliss...
Make poppadums, just try — and these
Eat, your longing to satisfy!
Text
1. Take the black gram, ego self,
Growing in the five-fold body field2
And grind it in the quern,
The wisdom quest of ‘Who am l?’ Reducing it to finest flour.
Make poppadums, just try — and these
Eat, your longing to satisfy!
1 Appalam is the Tamil name for poppadum.
2 The five kosas or sheaths, physical, vital, mental, intellectual, and subtle..

2. Mix it with pirandai juice, which is holy company,
Add mind control, the cummin seed, the pepper of self restraint,
The salt of non attachment and asafoetida, the aroma
Of virtuous inclination.
Make poppadums, just try — and these
Eat, your longing to satisfy!

3. In the Heart-mortar place the dough. And with the mind-pestle
Inward-turned, pound it hard with strokes of ‘I-I’,
Then flatten it with the rolling pin of stillness on the level slab
of Being. Work away, untiring, steady, cheerful.
Make poppadums, just try — and these
Eat, your longing to satisfy!

4. Put the poppadum in the ghee of Brahman held in the pan of
Infinite silence and fry it over the fire of knowledge.
Now as ‘I’ transmuted into ‘That’, eat and taste the Self as Self,
Abiding as the Self alone.
Make poppadums, just try — and these
Eat, your longing to satisfy!

SELF-KNOWLEDGE
Refrain
Lo, very easy is Self Knowledge,
Lo, very easy indeed.
Supplemental Refrain
Even for the most infirm, so real is the Self that compared with it,
the amlak1 in one’s hand appears a mere illusion.
(Refrain)
1. True, strong, fresh, for ever stands the Self.
From it in truth springs forth the phantom body
and phantom World. When this delusion is destroyed
and not a speck remains, the Sun of Self shines
bright and real in the vast Heart-expanse.
Darkness dies, afflictions end, and bliss wells up.
(Refrain)
2. The thought ‘I am the body’ is the thread on which
are strung together various thoughts.Enquiring within,
ask, ‘Who am I? and whence is this thought?’
All other thoughts vanish. And as ‘I-I’, within the Heart-Cave,
the Self shines of its own accord. Such Self-Awareness is the
only Heaven, this stillness, this abode of bliss.
(Refrain)
1 The gooseberry fruit, which is said to have medicinal properties.



Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2011, 09:44:10 AM »


Dear Arjuna and paul,

Sri Bhagavan has used 'mind' and 'thought' interchangeably.  In
Who am I?, He says 'mano-nasam'.  It really means 'destruction
of thoughts'.  He has also said in Who am I?:

What is the nature of the mind?

The mind is a wondrous power in Atma. It produces all thoughts.
....Thoughts are gross bodies of the mind.....



Arunachala Siva.     

Arjuna16

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2011, 04:52:02 AM »
Okay, you are saying that we are not the 'I' and there is no individual 'I', and I understand that. You say that when we get an 'I'-thought it vanishes before we can do anything, so we don't need to do anything. I think we both have different perceptions on what the 'I'-thought is. Thoughts can vanish very quickly before we can do anything, but the 'I'-thought or sense of self does not vanish easily. Subramanian has said that Ramana used 'thought' and 'mind' interchangably. But If thought and mind are used interchangably, then they lead to two different outcomes.
Ramana said very often to "find the source of the 'I'-thought". If the 'I'-thought here is just thoughts, the source of these thoughts is the mind/ego/little-'I'. If the 'I'-thought means the mind/ego/little-'I', then finding its source would lead to the self.

In the other thread about Experiences with Self-Enquiry, Eranilkumarsinha said that the proper self-enquiry invoves: Holding onto the 'I', seeking its source, and abiding in it. When thoughts arise and distract you, return your attention to the thinker of the thought. Is this correct? This seems to make sense to me because when I look within to ask "whose voice is this?" the answer is 'I'. But when I ask "where does this 'I' or mind arise, I can't see any answer.

I appreciate all of your responses in trying to help come to a better understanding.
Arjuna

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2011, 10:36:23 AM »


Dear Arjuna 16,

The thinker of the thought or the mind - both are the same. Sri Bhagavan has said that thought is the gross form of the mind.
If you follow the 'thinker of the thought' method it is fine. What is
important is to find the source of this thinker of thought.

Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I? What is mind? It is a wondrous power in the Source, atma swarupam. So the source or the birth place of mind is the Self . Upon asking the questions, many many times, one will find the source or the Self. Once the mind abides in the Self, permanently, the mind is no longer there. Only source is there, the Self, Atma Swarupam. One becomes Atma Swarupam or Self realized.



Arunachala Siva. 

jacques franck

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2011, 02:16:00 PM »
Hi everyone,

is the "I sense", the "I-thought" is the same thing that the "I-am"

If yes is that :
You know you are sitting here, you know ‘you are’, do you require any special effort to hold on to that ‘you are’? You know ‘you are’, abide only in that. The ‘I am’ principle without words, that itself is the God of all. (nisargadatta)

Namaste

amiatall

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2011, 03:26:05 PM »
Dear vishnave,

I-thought is just a thought. I-AM is BEING. Your attention must rest in I-AM.


Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2011, 05:10:31 PM »


I is I thought. It is Naan in Tamizh. "I am" is thoughtless bliss of the
Self, to which you have rested. They call it asmita. Sri Bhagavan says
Thaan in Tamizh. 

Upadesa Undiyar Verse 20 says:

NaanonRu thaanathu nannan enru onRathu
Thaangath thonRume undipara
Thaanathu poonRamam undipara.

Where this 'I' notion faded,
Now there as I, as I, arises,
The One, the very Self, the Infinite.

Sri Bhagavan has used Naan and Thaan. I am not sure how it appears in Sanskrit and Telugu versions. I upon its dissolution,
shines as I, as I.  English authors call this as I-I.



Arunachala Siva.       

Arjuna16

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2011, 10:13:16 PM »
Okay so the 'I' sense is just the result of a serious of 'I' thoughts strung together. For example: "I am watching TV", followed by "I don't like this show", followed by "I want to change the channel". This happening all the time creating the illusion that there is an 'I'? Is that what you mean srkudai?

I thought that the thoughts appeared because there was the illusion of an individual 'I', ego or mind, but its actually the continuous thoughts that create the illusion? Thoughts, mind, ego, individual 'I' are all the same thing?

Subramanian and srkudai, could you describe how you practice self-enquiry? I think I learn best through personal examples.

jacques franck

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Re: Bhagavan's Self Inquiry
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2011, 11:50:48 PM »
Namaste,

Recently I have found this book By Michael Langford : The most rapid and direct means to Eternal Bliss.

The technique that he expound is :

Look out at the room, notice your awareness looking out through your eyes.
Now shut your eyes and notice that same awareness is still there, that a moment ago was looking outward at the room.
Observe that awareness.
If you are not having many thoughts, just ignore them and continue with awareness observing awareness.
If you seem to be having a lot of thoughts, then just turn your attention away from the thoughts and towards awareness observing awareness.

or

Shut your eyes.
Notice your awareness. Observe that awareness.
Turn your attention away from the world, body and thought, and towards awareness watching awareness.
If you notice you are thinking, turn your attention away from thought and back towards awareness watching awareness.

I have also found this : by Michael James
http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2007/01/awareness-watching-awareness.html
"Regarding Michael Langford's explanation about the technique of self-enquiry, his basic idea, namely that it is "awareness watching awareness", as he describes it, is correct. This term that he has coined, 'awareness watching awareness', is just another way of describing self-attention or self-attentiveness, which is the state in which consciousness is conscious only of itself and not of any other thing. This is the correct and only technique of self-enquiry."

Do you have a view about that and like said Arjuna 16

Can you explain your technique : a lot of thing has been described, I have read Many book (Principaly ramana) a I am lost around this?

Thanks and namaste