Author Topic: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization  (Read 9170 times)

srkudai

  • Guest
Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« on: April 28, 2011, 10:38:47 AM »
Today I met my guruji Swami Tattvavidananda Saraswati at hyderabad. I talked to him and got some of my doubts cleared. He gave me a book on Upadesha Saram in Telugu which he wrote [though i cannot read telugu, i will have to make some efforts . i only understand telugu].

I asked him "is Liberation possible without nirvikalpa samadhi and he mentioned that nirvikalpa samadhi is a must. I asked him, is it not said that "yatra yatra mano yaati tatra tatra samadhyah" [where ever mind goes there is Samadhi]. He replied "Yes it is said, but for whom? For a person who had nirvikalpa samadhi and is liberated. For such a person when he sees a tree or house etc, there is only God or Brahman. For a ordinary worldly person, if a person thinks of his wife, he is not thinking of Brahman."

I asked him if Yogic methods of Samadhi are sufficient to Self Realization and he said that Moksha is not possible until there is a total cognitive change [that is, one should see oneself as Consciousness always... Annamalai Swami said that just as i know i am a man, i should be clear that i am consciousness]. For this Sravanam etc are very important. Yogic methods alone would just lead to mano layam and not mano nashanam.

I asked the difference of Mano-layam and mano-nashanam. He explained: "suppose you are fasting for ekadasi and your friend brings you a ladoo. you do not eat it and supress the thoughts that arise. This is mano layam. it is temporary. But manonashanam means the raga-dveshas do not arise at all. Vasana nashanam is mano nashanam"

he suggested that Self inquiry is a very effective meditation technique for vasana nashanam, while stressing the importance of Sravanam as well for the cognitive change.

Swamiji mentioned that Self inquiry  is , in any experience, hold onto the subject [the i-i] of hte experience. This eliminates thoughts and stills us so that we remain as Self.

I feel really blessed to meet this saint.

And wanted to convey this to Subramanian ji, Nagaraj, Raju garu and other friends with whom I once argued that Nirvikalpa Samadhi is not required. I understand the mistake in my way of looking at it.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47724
    • View Profile
Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 11:49:00 AM »


Dear srkudai,

I am seeing you after a long gap in the Forum.  Nice that you have met a great saint who clarified your doubts.

"Nirvikalpa" literally means "no differences". Sri Bhagavan is saying
here that true Nirvikalpa samadhi is not the state in which, oblivious
to the world and one's body, one fails to recognize the sense impressions at all, but the state in which the mental movements which give rise to differences do not appear in the Heart. When the vasanas have been annihilated, these distinguishing thoughts no longer arise.

Muruganar says in Verse 893 of Guru Vachaka Kovai, [Muruganar is my Ramana dictionary]:

The mere non perception by the senses of the gross differences of the external world is not by itself the excellence of perfect Nirvikalpa samadhi.  Know that the illustrious and prized Nirvikalpa
Samadhi is the Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi state in which one functions in the world in a normal way, without having any ideas about distinctions or differences in the Heart.

Sri Sankara and Sri Bhagavan were in this state of Sahaja.

Sri Bhagavan says in  Sri Ramana Gita 5.10: The state in which awareness is firm and one pointed, even when objects are sensed,
is called Sahaja Sthiti. The state in which objects are absent is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

Samadhi is only remaining firmly established as the natural awareness "I am". Forsake the awareness with the [body] limitation that unites with you through delusion, and rest in that limitation
free state. [Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 894]



Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47724
    • View Profile
Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 12:58:35 PM »
[b[

Dear srkudai,

About mano layam and mano nasa:

Sri Bhagavan used to give an example to explain this.  It is in
Kaivalaya Navaneetam, I think.

A man descends a bucket in a well to pull a bucket full of water.  The bucket remains  deep inside the well with water for some time. This is similar to mano laya.  The bucket is mind. It is inside the water, that is the Self. The bucket is having on all sides the water
and it is also full of water. [the Self].  Now when the man pulls the bucket out, then the bucket comes. This is mano laya.

Suppose due to some reason, the rope is snapped, when  the bucket is descended into the well. The bucket goes into water but it cannot come back.  This is mano nasa.



Arunachala Siva.     
   
 

amiatall

  • Guest
Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 08:15:40 PM »
For devotees nothing is required except practicing self-inquiry and diving deep deep deep deep within  ;D

amiatall

  • Guest
Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 04:39:26 PM »
To my mind, the obstacle as far as practice goes is concepts and words.

Ramesh123

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2011, 08:34:41 PM »
I am a beginner on this forum. I have read many books of Sri Ramana Maharishi. I would like to make one observation here on Nirvikalpa Samadhi here. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa had a disciple called Swami Premananda, who was very devoted to him and wanted to experience Nirvikalpa Samadhi, but could not do so. Hence, Sri Ramakrishna prayed to Mother Kaali and asked Her to bless his disciple with the experience of Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Mother Kaali however told him that Swami Premananda was not destined to experience Nirvikalpa Samadhi, but she would  grant him pure knowledge and Moksha in due course in that birth itself. Sri Abhinava Vidyatheertha Maha Swami has also said that Nirvikalpa Samadhi is NOT absolutely necessary, but it is definitely highly desirable to experience it. But not experiencing Nirvikalpa Samadhi  is definitely NOT A BAR to Moksha, if one can experience Pure Knowledge like Swami Premananda, disciple of Sri Ramakrishna did. These are my firm views and I think this clarifies the issue here.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47724
    • View Profile
Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 08:56:54 PM »


Dear srkudai,

Very well explained. Getting vision of god, getting super natural powers, are all inferior. Nirvikalapa Samadhi, a totally thoughtless
state is the sublime experience and it is moksha, because Sri
Sankara has also said: Vasana Kshayam Moksham.




Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47724
    • View Profile
Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi is Required For Self Realization
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 03:58:51 PM »


Dear srkudai,

Yes.  Suddha Manas or Pure Mind is one with which a Jnani does his
routine duties and at sometimes may also show some desires -
which are not vasana producing.  The classic example is when once
Sri Bhagavan spoke high of avial [a liquid porridge with mixed vegetables and kanji [a gruel].  The Asramam authorities decided to
prepare these next morning for break fast.  Huge quantities of avial and kanji were prepared. Sri Bhagavan amongst others relished it and then even asked for a second helping!  The devotees were astonished and they were asking for the reason for Sri Bhagavan liking the preparations.  Sri Bhagavan said: This desire was there and now it is all over.  Thereafter, avial + kanji was never prepared
in the Asramam.  Similarly when He was very sick during His terminal illness, doctors have told that He should not take chilli powder with idli. However one day He asked for it. The devotees were a little afraid to give this chilli powder soaked in oil with iddlis.  Sri Bhagavn took it and then said: This desire is also now over!  Thereafter He never touched chilli powder soaked in oil for iddlis once again till His Mahanirvana.



Arunachala Siva.