Author Topic: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope  (Read 2730 times)

ramana_maharshi

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God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« on: January 07, 2011, 05:05:59 PM »
VATICAN CITY: God's mind was behind complex scientific theories such as the Big Bang, and Christians should reject the idea that the universe came into being by accident, Pope Benedict said on Thursday.

"The universe is not the result of chance, as some would want to make us believe," Benedict said on the day Christians mark the Epiphany, the day the Bible says the three kings reached the site where Jesus was born by following a star.

"Contemplating it (the universe) we are invited to read something profound into it: the wisdom of the creator, the inexhaustible creativity of God," he said in a sermon to some 10,000 people in St Peter's Basilica on the feast day.

While the pope has spoken before about evolution, he has rarely delved back in time to discuss specific concepts such as the Big Bang, which scientists believe led to the formation of the universe some 13.7 billion years ago.

Researchers at Cern, the nuclear research centre in Geneva, have been smashing protons together at near the speed of light to simulate conditions that they believe brought into existence the primordial universe.

Benedict said some scientific theories were "mind limiting" because "they only arrive at a certain point ... and do not manage to explain the ultimate sense of reality ..." He said scientific theories on the origin and development of universe and humans, while not in conflict with faith, left many questions unanswered. "In the beauty of the world, in its mystery, in its greatness and in its rationality... we can only let ourselves be guided towards God, creator of heaven and earth," he said.

Benedict and his predecessor John Paul have been trying to shed the Church's image of being anti-science, a label that stuck when it condemned Galileo for teaching that the earth revolves around the sun, challenging the words of the Bible. Galileo was rehabilitated and the Church now also accepts evolution as a scientific theory and sees no reason why God could not have used a natural evolutionary process in the forming of the human species.

The Catholic Church no longer teaches creationism — the belief God created the world in six days — and says that the account in the book of Genesis is an allegory for the way God created the world.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/Gods-mind-behind-Big-Bang-Pope/articleshow/7233156.cms#ixzz1ALl1J1oM

Subramanian.R

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 09:33:28 AM »



Dear prasanth,

I am in agreement with the views of Pope on certain aspects:

1. God's mind [there is no mind for God, there is only Maya which
does everything. Brahman is achalam.] is incomprehensible.  Upanishads say that Brahman cannot be described.  Maya is also
anirvachaneeyam - beyond words.  No one can say for sure, why
Maya did all this indra jalam.

2.  Nevertheless, the world and the universe were not created in
seven days.  It is not a Saptaham as Srimad Bhagavatam is
discoursed or read in seven days.  It is a process which took a longer time, how much time, one can never say.  Further Hindu scriptures
say that there is no time concept for Maya.  It could be in one second or many millenium.  From the way in which is some stars are older and some are younger, [the Sun is of middle age], one can conclude that there was process of creation and ageing and dissolution.

3.  In pure Ajata Vada, creation, sustenance and dissolution are only stories created by Vedas.  But Vedic rishis have no interest in describing these. The idea is to make the humans understand the hugeness of the universe and its creator and to light a desire in the minds of humans to attain the Beyond, Brahman.

4.  The story in the Bible, the first chapter Genesis could be an allegory.  No one has unravelled this allegory.  No one can also.  As Sri Bhagavan says in Sri AAMM, Verse 80:

You have undone the knot which shows no beginning and no end.  And now should you not like a mother complete the task, O Arunachala!             

5.  One can definitely [particularly we, Sri Bhagavan's devotees],
God or God's particle can never be found outside in the world or in a laboratory.  God is within us.



Arunachala Siva.

ramana_maharshi

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 12:19:45 PM »
Dear Subramanian garu,

I agree with you that first chapter story in the Bible could be an allegory only.

Also it seems it was written in that book that god was not clear which he has created in the first 3 days and hence he was ensuring again.6th day it seems that god created sun.It is false theory as without sun how do we know that 5 days are passed?

Also it seems that it was written that people who don't believe jesus will go to hell which is again false propaganda.

Subramanian.R

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 03:07:56 PM »



Dear prasanth,

To say that their god alone shall confer heaven/liberation is there in
all religions.  Saivites say that only Siva shall confer liberation, Vaishnavites say that even chanting of the name Narayana [in the
story of Ajamilan in Srimad Bhagavatam] only shall confer liberation.

This is where philosophy differs from religions.  Upanishads, Gaudapada and Sri Sankara have said the god or Brahman has no name and form. It is within heart.  It is Sat or ULLadu.  This is the only Real without a second.  It is advaitam.  And it is an experience.

Sri Sankara later came down to the level of masses and started composing various poems on gods, like Siva, Sakti, Ganapati, Vishnu,
Skanda and even Subrahmanya.  He called it, at puja level, there are broadly six religions.  One can pray to any of these Gods and then attain liberation through ardent devotion and vichara.

Narada  in his Bhakti  Sutra never even used the word bhakti.  He called it only as It.  He only said that one should leave vibhakti.
Vibhakti, is called differences, I, mine, for me, only to me, etc.,

Srimad Bhagavatam starts as Satyam Param Dheemahi.  It ends
as Satyam Param Dheemahi.  Take us to that Most High Truth.



Arunachala Siva.     

ramana_maharshi

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 11:12:59 PM »
Excellent and i agree with you sir.

Om Hridayam

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2011, 11:56:17 PM »
I think the modern mind superimposes false ideas on ancient stories... The idea that everything -has- to be literally true for -other parts- of sacred scripture to be true
is more of an example of modern man's lack of understanding poetry than anything else. The idea that something is a "myth" seems to suggest that it's untrue in this age. Without
having poetic interpretations much of these kinds of ancient stories have little meaning. They don't have to be literally true as a story for them to have truth within it.
Again, I think it has more to do with modern man's lack of subtlety and understanding of myth, symbolism and poetry than it does any lack of the ancients in what they told us.

Subramanian.R

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 09:31:58 AM »



Dear Om Hridayam,

Yes.  Most of the stories in Purana and scriptures are allegorical.
We do not understand the inner meaning.  As you said modern
men do not go into the subtlety of these ideas.

There is an Upanishad story where the guru sends his disciple, for 32 years to do some meditation along with grazing of the cows.  He comes back.  The guru feels that he has not understood the Principle.  He sends him for another thirty two years.  The disciple comes back.  The same story.  He is again sent for 32 years.  Then the disciple comes back fully understanding the Truth.  Now apparently it looks that one has to spend 96 years in understanding the Truth.  What is the inner meaning?  What is the purport behind this story of 96 years.  We are not able to unravel.  We simply laugh saying that the disciple must have become pretty old, walking with a stick and skin shriveled and eyes not able to see and ears not able to hear.

In Kathopanishad there is one story.  Seeing his father donating
old cows which do not yield milk, the illustrious son asks his father:  Do whom will you donate me?  The angry father says that he will donate him [the son] to Yama.  Immediately the son goes to Yama's kingdom and ask him questions about Atma Vidya. Now the point is that anyone could be a guru.  In this case, Yama teaches him Atma Vidya, after avoiding his questions several times.  But stubborn efforts yield result.   One should only understand this inner meaning of the metaphor.  One cannot ask questions as to how one can go to Yamaloka just as he goes to another room in his house?

There are several such stories in all scriptures of all religions. One needs to go beyond the stories and understand the inner meaning.

To explain the creation story, there is a story in Panchadasi.  The mother tells her child.  There is a barren woman.  But she has got three children!  They make a bow with hare's horn, and fly in the thin air, pluck the flowers in Space and wear them.  They descend on to a mirage and there are streams.  They take bath and drink the cool water... The story goes like this.  The idea is that beyond all these false stories is the Atma Bodham, the realization of the Self.  The Creator is behind all these stories.  To understand Him is to be Him.



Arunachala Siva.                 

Om Hridayam

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2011, 11:24:28 PM »
I feel that most ancient "myths" (if you want to call them that) no matter what tradition they come from, Western, Eastern, tribal, societal etc....
take on these sort of fantastic qualities because in some cases they are trying to describe very subtle nuances of life, and allegory may be the only way to get these ideas across
... as all poets know sometimes saying something indirectly can get an idea across better than directly saying it... the downside, of course, is when people insist on taking them
literally... or at least in a way not intended to be taken, but that is a problem of the human condition. There will always be misunderstandings on this plane.

Subramanian.R

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Re: God's mind behind Big Bang: Pope
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 07:16:32 AM »



Dear Om Hridayam,

Yes.  T.S. Eliot said:

I shall not cease from explorartion
At the end of all exploring,
Will be to arrive where we started,
To know the place for the first time.



Arunachala Siva.