Author Topic: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience  (Read 5711 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 08:48:37 AM »
udai,
Quote
"You will get an experience and then become Self"


You are reading what has not been stated or said.You are also imagining that we are imagining 'some flow of light' that will be recognized as God,etc Where did we say this?We are only saying that the Experiencing of the Self needs to be there.Again ,do not bring in your polemics to say that there has to be an 'experiencer' to experience.That will not lead us anywhere.
What we are saying is that all KNOWN experiences are not the Self and are correctly recognized as not the Self.so,no point in saying 'the experience is already there and only recognition is not there'.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 02:15:05 PM »
udai,
'i exist' is not the same as 'I AM'.Period.
Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 03:56:47 PM »
Friends,

Not pointing to anyone - but I feel a lot of energy and time spent on "literature" and "literary meanings" can be used in experiencing the goal and moving towards it. A very humble suggestion. Please ignore if I am naive - because each of you know lot more sanskrit and lot more scriptures that me and I could sound to be silly blabbering something. Just an observation that came to my heart.

"I am", "I exist", "Just be" or any such thing is merely group of words. Should we spend time debating on meaning of dead words. Words are dead things ("Jada") and their analysis only gives literary satisfaction. I am not sure it helps - too much of such analysis.

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 05:22:04 PM »
Dear Udai Garu

I must admit I did not follow this discussion thread closely. So just replying based on your most recent post.

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if no experience is not required ... any searching for experience is futile !!


Yes - it indeed is. If we are doing a search with the mere goal of experiencing something new, I am sure that search is futile. Any search is to satisfy the ego. When all search stops, all needs drop dead, all efforts go away - what is it that remains? - is all I am saying.
This search is what is stopping us from liberation. I am merely parroting what you all know - but just bringing up the point in case it is lost in a lot of other stuff.

Sanjay.
Salutations to Bhagawan

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 05:32:45 PM »
Yes, Udai garu. These are the paths and methods. Does one path and method work for all? Does one medicine work for all patients? If so, Lord would have never spoken 18 chapters explaining so many methods. Yes - this method worked wonders for Annamalai Swami. This same method is what I am also following with ernest belief. But what good is it to debate, compare and contrast methods? How can I blame a doctor who gave just gave a cough syrup for me, but gave an injection for my neighbour (whom I thought had same cough) ?

Now, personally, I agree 100% with Annamalai swamiji. And that is the path through which you walk. So now I am more confused about the debate :).

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 05:47:44 PM »
Yes, sir. That is why I said, if you know the goal - path comes. First step may be X, they step Y, then step Z etc. So most important thing is clarity about the goal - not the path.

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2012, 05:14:28 AM »
Udai,

No point going round and round.I will once again go back to what we discussed:

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Udai,
Let us not go into why for the moment.Do you agree that Recognition and Experience go together?
Namaskar.

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Reply #14 on: December 20, 2012, 09:19:13 PM »
yes ofcourse!

Do you now think you said 'Yes' where you wanted to say 'No' ?we will leave the 'Ofcourse' part of it for the time being.

Namaskar.


Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2012, 06:23:21 AM »
sanjaya,

Quote
"if you know the goal - path comes"

If we know the Goal,we will understand the following:
1.All paths are valid.
2.There is no path to the goal!
3.No path needs to be tread!
4.Goal is only an approximation of what Is beyond 'IS' and 'IS NOT'(SAT and ASAT)

Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2012, 06:27:28 AM »
Ravi

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1.All paths are valid.

Agreed - 100%

Quote
2.There is no path to the goal!
3.No path needs to be tread!

Path is not to the goal, I agree - but Path is to remove obstacles to goal, because the goal is ever present - no need to have a path to it. Why are you and I did and doing all these? If there is no path, can you and I do murder and all other things are survive? Path is for removing obstacles and not to reach the goal. We all are treading that path. It is ego which treads that path till it is destroyed. If there is no path, why this forum? why these discussions?

Yes I like the "IF condition" you put. I would modify that. If you "know the goal" should be replaced by "If you experience the goal". knowing and experiencing are VERY DIFFERENT. Knowing is by brain - experiencing involves no aids.

Sanjay
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 06:34:04 AM by sanjaya_ganesh »
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2012, 07:11:02 AM »
Sanjaya,
The Problem lies because of mixing up dualistic ideas with nondual ideas.We need to stick to one of it.
If the 'Goal' is known,this also means that it is only the Brain that knows and the 'Path' also has to correspond to it.
The 'Goal' would then be 'Absence' of certain unwanted things.'Path' would be Removal of certain unwanted things.
This is what is Branded as 'chitta Shuddhi'.

If the Goal is unknown and unknowable(advaitic Terminology),then how can one recognize it?Who is the one there to recognize this?
This is why the upanishads say :
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Kena 2:1 Master.  If you think ‘I know well’, little truth you know.  You only perceive that appearance of Brahman that lies in the senses and is in you.  Pursue your mediation


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In Katha Upanishad,Yama tells Nachiketas:This Self cannot be attained by study of the Scriptures, nor by intellectual perception, nor by frequent hearing (of It); He whom the Self chooses, by him alone is It attained. To him the Self reveals Its true nature.

All arguements are on account of this indiscriminate mixing up of dualistic ideas with nondual ideas.

Namaskar.