Author Topic: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience  (Read 4195 times)

srkudai

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Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« on: October 18, 2010, 06:23:09 AM »
Sai Baba promised his disciple that he would visit him for lunch the next day.
Accordingly the devotee prepared for the lunch, lot of specials were prepared.
And then he awaited Sai. Sai however "did not come"

And the next day he went to Sai and asked him why he did not come.

Sai's answer was "I went to his house thrice and he chased me away".

He appeared in the form of a dog, a beggar etc.

Now, did the devotee lack Experience of "Sai's Arrival" or "Recognition of Sai's arrival" ?


As such, do we lack Experience of Self or Recognition of Self ?

Thanks and Regards
Udai Shankar

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 05:56:29 PM »
well said udai garu.

Yes we lack Recognition of Self only and not experience.





atmavichar100

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 08:53:57 PM »
Quote
As such, do we lack Experience of Self or Recognition of Self ?

We lack experience of recognition of self  :)
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 09:06:49 PM »
udai,
There has to be Recognition and Experience of sai.In the absence of the recognition,the devotee only experienced a Dog and not sai.Recognition and Experience go together.If the devotee had experienced sai and not the dog in the dog,there would have been the recognition of sai as well.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 09:10:46 PM »
udai,
Stick to the dog and the man.Did the man experience sai or the dog?
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 09:12:51 PM »
udai,
If the dog was experienced,sai is not experienced and vice versa.This is plain simple.No big reasoning is required.
Namaskar.

atmavichar100

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 09:16:17 PM »
Atmavichar,
       Ah ah ! u have combined everything up !! :)

so what is this "Experience of Recognition" ? :D LOL!

When that dog came, if i went and told him : hey look, this is sai, he told me. and he believes me ... its done!

What I am trying to say is right from Childhood we have been trained and conditioned to do something to get something . What are all the advertisements geared for - to tempt us to buy a particular product or service to be happy .
There is this joke of a person lying under a tree enjoying a relaxed time and when some asked him how come you are so lazy and not doing any work and that person asks : what are you working for ? and he replies I am working hard to get a good degrees ?
Next follow the dialogue :
Q: What will you do with that good degree ?
A: I will get a good job
Q : What will you do with a good job ?
A: I will get a good  rich girl to marry
Q: What will you get by marrying a good rich girl ?
A : I will be blessed with a good son
Q: What will you do after having a good son ?
A: I will give him good education
Q : What will he do with that good education ?
A: He will get a good job
Q: What will he do with a good job ?
A: He will get a good rich girl to marry
Q: What will he achieve by marrying a good rich girl
A : He will get a good son
Q : So what does it do for you ?
A : After that I will happy retire
Q : What you do after retire ?
A: Happily sit and relax under a tree .
Q: That is what I am doing right now  :)

So this is what the experience of recognition of happiness for the second person   :),while for the first person it was natural from the beginning . Sometimes you need to do something to understand it is not worth doing  :)
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 09:18:20 PM »
Udai,
Let us not go into why for the moment.Do you agree that Recognition and Experience go together?
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 09:27:43 PM »
udai,
Very Good.Now do you think that experience can be there but recognition (i am not referring to the naming or classification of the experience)may not be there?
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 09:32:08 PM »
udai,
We agreed that Recognition and Experience are concommitant.If recognition is not there ,experience is not there;if experience is there,recognition is also there.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 09:53:05 PM »
udai,
You may answer this tomorrow.God bless you with a Good night's rest.

Quote
"Let me ask another way: How do you know that the space around you is not God ?
Who tells that ?
And if the space around you is God ... what more needs to be reached !?"

Leave aside God.Tell me what is space.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 07:10:58 AM »
Udai,
Please set aside the Learnings.Recognition and Experience are concommitant and are at the same level.Recognition can be at a mental Level and experience will be on that level.If the Recognition of Sai is on the Mental Level,the experience of sai will be at the mental Level.If the Experience of sai is at a spiritual level(SAT level),the recognition of sai is at that level.
In fact,Sri Bhagavan's example is classic wherein the experience came without the need to Recognize it!The 'mental recognition' or Naming/Labelling/classification of it came later.

If we have to go strictly by your definition ,that experience is Jada,we may also say that Recognition is also on that Level.Both are Mental only.We then have to accept the 'salt doll' example where there is none to 'Recognize' and 'Experience'.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 07:31:55 AM »
udai,
"Experience of Ramana did not come without the need to recognize it .
Quote
He said that he did some exercise and then he came to a confirmation: "I am the Spirit, a thing transcending body".

Where did Sri Bhagavan say this?Please give the reference.Did Sri Bhagavan confirm that he said this?

Quote
"There is nothing like "Experience at Spiritual Level".
I know that you will come up with this 'Arguement'.Please recall our discussion on 'Anubhava' and 'Anubhuti'.What do you call it?This is what I am referring to.

All your arguements stem from a 'belief' and attachment to 'scriptural' terms .Just drop this and speak from your own experience.

Have you experienced anything without recognizing it ,or recognize something without experiencing it?Give one example,that is enough.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 08:01:58 AM »
udai,
We are not saying whether the experience is new or Old.Whether the experience is relevant.
you are referring to annamalai swami-"The Experience of "I AM" is there"
I would say that it is not the experience of 'I AM' but only 'i exist'.The experience 'i exist' is irrelevant for our purpose.If it is relevant,then we do not need to enquire any further but would have happily stayed with that.In this sense the experience of 'I AM' is very relevant and may be said to be absent in the experience of 'i exist'.(Sai and dog)
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Does he Lack Experience or Recognition of the Experience
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 08:06:18 AM »
udai,
What you have quoted is Sri B V Narasimhaswamy's version that Dramatizes what happened.It is not Sri Bhagavan's words that are there!
Namaskar.