Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 981185 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5250 on: November 15, 2017, 03:42:10 PM »
As the mind that is tossed about
In the light and darkness of knowledge,
As the chit that grows with the mind,
As the Siva Chit that encompasses chits all,
As unique, as permanency,
As objects diverse,
As the senses that cognizes those objects,
As the sense organs five, as the elements five,
As objects external, as objects internal,
As distant, as near,
As going, as coming,
As darkness, as light,

As good, as evil,
As today, as tomorrow, as eternal,
As one, as many, as all,
As none of these,

Thou who stand as thus
Can anyone know easy,
But those who had received  Thy Grace?

Oh! Thou, Param that is Bliss
Encompassing in Pervasive Fullness,
The Universes many and Spaces vast!

Sri Thaumanavar

srkudai

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5251 on: November 15, 2017, 05:02:06 PM »
Dear Anil ji,
       :)

When you are in the sea searching for the water ... what one needs is not "doing" , but "knowing"
its not really about "doing something or getting rid of something"
Quote
"The ego comes up only holding you (the Self). Hold yourself and the ego will vanish. Until then the sage will be saying, 'There is.' - The ignorant will be asking 'Where?'"

The problem here is of missing the Truth. Where is water ?
well, here is water, it has to be made explicit and clear.

The problem is of not knowing the Truth, not of being away from the truth.
We doubt that we are right now in the embrace of God. imagine accepting this ... imagine we have agreed ... what more needs to be done now ?

Love!
Silence

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5252 on: November 15, 2017, 06:21:12 PM »
Anil,
Pregnant and beautiful verse of  Thayumanavar from 'AnandamAna param' (verse 2)
Have attempted a simpler translation:

As clarity, as confusion-as the toiling mind
As the growing intelligence in the mind
As the Siva Consciousness that engulfs the Intelligence
Wondrously diverse(Vichitram is the word used-ravi) -as immovable and unchanging (sthira is the word used-ravi),
As objects varied, as the organ perceiving those objects
As senses five, as elements five
As the outer and the inner, as afar and near
As that which goes and that which comes
As darkness, as light
As good and bad,
As today, tomorrow and evermore
As the one, as the many, as the all
As none of these-
Thou who stands thus,
Other than those who abide in grace
Can anyone know easily?
Oh! Thou, Param that is Bliss
Encompassing in Pervasive Fullness,
The Universes many and Spaces vast!

Namaskar
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 08:04:45 PM by Ravi.N »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5253 on: November 16, 2017, 09:30:44 AM »
गुरु धोबी सीख कपड़ा, सबू सिर्जन हर|
सुरती सिला पर धोइए, निकसे ज्योति अपार||


guru dhobi sis kapada, sabun sirjanhar;
surati sila par dhoiye, nikase jyoti apar.

Guru the washer man, disciple is the cloth.
The name of God liken to the soap
Wash the mind on the stone of meditation firm
And  realize the Light of  Truth Infinite.






That is, by the Grace of the Guru alone, one meets Oneself. Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5254 on: November 16, 2017, 09:41:00 AM »
Anilbhai,
May I request to post the wonderful Kabir Dohas in a separate thread?...They can be easily accessed by one and all and will be immensely beneficial....Thanks.
Namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5255 on: November 16, 2017, 10:21:48 AM »
Quote:
"When you are in the sea searching for the water ... what one needs is not "doing" , but "knowing"
its not really about "doing something or getting rid of something""

"The problem here is of missing the Truth. Where is water ?
well, here is water, it has to be made explicit and clear"?




Dear Sri Udai,

What else do you think Sri Bhagwan's Atma-vichara is? This is exactly what Vichara facilitates, as it were. What needs, therefore, to done in my view, is to do Enquiry till the very end. Then, as Sri Bhagwan has repeatedly said that such questions (in the above quote) as you are raising wouldn't arise at all.   



Quote:
"The problem is of not knowing the Truth, not of being away from the truth.
We doubt that we are right now in the embrace of God. imagine accepting this ... imagine we have agreed ... what more needs to be done now?"




Dear friend, this is not a question of my acceptance or agreement alone. If what you say is accepted in a general sense, there is a danger, which Sri Bhagwan has Himself highlighted and warned against. Remember, even the meditation of the form 'I Am the Self' prematurely has not been enjoined, except in Sri Annamalai Swami's case, by Sri Bhagwan. 



Thus Spake Bhagwan Sri Ramana:
"Without understanding it aright, people think that the Guru teaches the disciple something like 'TATVAMASI' and that the disciple realises 'I am Brahman'. In their ignorance they conceive of Brahman as something more huge and powerful than anything else. With a limited 'I' the man is so stuck up and wild. What will be the case if the same 'I' grows up enormous? He will be enormously ignorant and foolish! This false 'I' must perish. Its annihilation is the fruit of Guru seva. Realisation is eternal and it is not newly brought about by the Guru. He helps in the removal of ignorance. That is all."



Heard it, dear friend, Sri Udai? The false 'I' must perish. 



Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:31:02 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

srkudai

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5256 on: November 16, 2017, 10:33:00 AM »
if it is false why should it perish ? :)
if it is real it cannot perish

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5257 on: November 16, 2017, 10:43:33 AM »
Quote:
"if it is false why should it perish ? 
if it is real it cannot perish"





Dear Sri Udai, do you really not understand what Sri Bhagwan meant by the word 'perish' in the holy Utterance "The false 'I' must perish", and do you mean to say that you need to be explained what really the word meant?
Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5258 on: November 16, 2017, 11:22:57 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi, thanks very much for posting your own translation of Sri Thaumanavar's wonderful song. Your translation, in my view, is much more meaningful, more fulfilling and more profound. And I say this not simply in praise, but this is an expression of my feeling. For, it certainly conveys the theme in a more organized manner. 

However, I wish to say that you have translated an important stanza of the verse as
 "Other than those who abide in grace
Can anyone know easily?"

While the same stanza in the song that I posted from the Himalayan Academy site has been translated as
"Thou who stand as thus
Can anyone know easy,
But those who had received  Thy Grace?"


I wish to ask which one does (the above stanza) correspond exactly to the original, literally?

Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 11:24:30 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5259 on: November 16, 2017, 11:59:39 AM »
Anilbhai,
The phrase used by Thaymanavar is 'aruLaagi ninRavargal' literally translates as 'Those who STAND in Grace'...and it means abidance...Grace is indeed always there but only those who are ever receptive to it stand to benefit....It is on account of Grace that we think of the Divine...It is on account of grace that we put in what we deem as 'self effort' and it is on account of grace we 'surrender' as well...Sadhana is carried on by grace(Arul shakti as annamalai Swami used to refer to it) and the Fruit of Sadhana is Grace as well.
So fundamentally there is no real difference between the two versions...but the phrase 'those who had received Thy Grace' seems to imply a ONE TIME ex gratia like thing ....whereas Grace is something without beginning and end...It is ever present...so,what is needed is only receptivity and abidance.
You may take whatever appeals to you...essentially they mean the same.
namaskar

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5260 on: November 16, 2017, 02:09:02 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Quote:
"The phrase used by Thaymanavar is 'aruLaagi ninRavargal' literally translates as 'Those who STAND in Grace'...and it means abidance.."



So, the original phrase is 'aruLaagi ninRavargal', which means 'Stand in Grace or Arul'. Yes, though I understand that there is no fundamental difference between two interpretations 'Those who stand in Grace' and 'Those who received Grace', yet 'Those who abide in Grace', is certainly, more profound, more exhilarating and more inspiring. And this is why asked. 


Quote:
"So fundamentally there is no real difference between the two versions...but the phrase 'those who had received Thy Grace' seems to imply a ONE TIME ex gratia like thing ....whereas Grace is something without beginning and end...It is ever present...so,what is needed is only receptivity and abidance."


Yes. Indeed! You yourself have said it! It echoes my own feeling.


Thanks very much, dear Sri Ravi, for clarifying the matter.
Pranam,
 Anil

« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 02:10:47 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5261 on: November 16, 2017, 03:00:20 PM »
A boy of eight and a half years sat in the hall at about five in the evening, when Sri Bhagavan went up the Hill. During His absence, the boy spoke on yoga and Vedanta in pure, simple and literary Tamil, quoting freely from the sayings of saints and the sacred scriptures. When Sri Bhagavan entered the hall, after nearly three-quarters of an hour, only silence prevailed. For the twenty minutes the boy sat in Sri Bhagavan's presence, he spoke not a word but was merely gazing at Him. Then tears flowed from his eyes. He wiped them with his left hand and soon after left the place saying that he still awaits Self-realization.

D: How should we explain the extraordinary characteristics of the boy?
Sri Bhagwan: The characteristics of his last birth are strong in him. But however strong they may be, they do not manifest themselves save in a calm, still mind. It is within the experience of all, that attempts to revive memory sometimes fail, while something flashes into the mind when it is calm and quiet.




Dear Devotees,


Why did the eight year old boy, a prodigy, wept  and tears flowed from his eyes when he sat in Silence in Sri Bhagwan's Presence? The prodigy was, in my view, in an advanced stage of spiritual growth, as is also obvious from Sri Bhagwan's Utterance as well.  And when soul speaks to soul, tears are its soulful expression. Is it not? Hence, it is soul's stirring when it came into contact with the Divine. 

Dear devotees, much as we try, it is common experience that the attempt to revive memory sometimes fails, while something flashes of its own accord into the mind when it is calm and still. This is because  intuition arises in a calm and still mind only. All major discoveries and inventions have happened in calm and still minds only.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 03:06:17 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5262 on: November 17, 2017, 07:26:53 AM »
Anilbhai,

"Your translation, in my view, is much more meaningful, more fulfilling and more profound. And I say this not simply in praise, but this is an expression of my feeling. For, it certainly conveys the theme in a more organised manner"

I understand what you are expressing ...as devotees we appreciate the intrinsic worth of the inner content and surely no flattery is involved in this...and we appreciate a translation that comes close to the original not just verbally but in spirit and expression...and the person translating is only incidental...it is true that the translator has to savour the flavour of the original and bring its essence in the translation and this is no easy task at all.

In a lighter vein,we may do self enquiry here!...What is there to call it as 'my translation'?....The Languages are acquired/ borrowed from others(both Tamizh and English)...the content is also borrowed...and soon computers would be adeptly doing such translations (there are already translation programs available although the refinement is not yet up to the required standards)...so all that we can say is that it has been channelised through our mind...and along with this if we have imbibed the spirit of it, we may to that extent not detract from the spirit of the original...and the value subtraction would be minimal!....and such a translation may be more acceptable to oneself and others...and leave one in peace...ha ha.

namaskar

ksksat27

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5263 on: November 17, 2017, 10:09:51 AM »
Quote:
"if it is false why should it perish ? 
if it is real it cannot perish"





Dear Sri Udai, do you really not understand what Sri Bhagwan meant by the word 'perish' in the holy Utterance "The false 'I' must perish", and do you mean to say that you need to be explained what really the word meant?
Anil

Dear Anil

Uday follow traditional vedanta and the methods prescribed there in.  to my knowledge the false I and real I are very very illuminary revelations that only Sri Ramana brought to the world.  that is why he was called a Maharishi because in one sense his teachings were not earlier propounded in that same manner.

so coming to the topic,  the way Bhagavan Ramana and his disciples Sadhu Om , Muruganar has clearly stated his teachings is not exactly the one concurring with traditional vedanta methods .  though the goal is the same.  so it is not that useful to explain Uday or Uday explaining us because we are taking different paths within the fold of self enquiry.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5264 on: November 17, 2017, 10:23:46 AM »
एक शब्द गुरुदेव का, ताका अनंत विचार |
थके मुनि जन पंडिता, वेद न पावे पार ||

Ek shabd gurudev ka, taka anant vichar,
Thake muni jan pandita, veda na pave paar.


The one Word of Sadguru is pregnant with Infinite Meaning.  Munis and pandits, full of pride of their learning or knowledge, exhaust (थके) themselves trying to find its meaning. Even Vedas cannot fathom its profundity (depth).
(trans. by me-anil)
 
 

Dear devotees, Vedas establish the existence of God or Brahman, and indicates Way to It, while the Sadguru's  Word bestows real Experience of That which Is.
Pranam,
 Anil

Note:  dear devotees,  a close, but very old relative died yesterday. Hence I will be scarcely visiting this forum for a few days.  Anil
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 10:25:17 AM by eranilkumarsinha »