Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758402 times)

srkudai

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5220 on: November 10, 2017, 04:18:37 PM »
Dear Anil ji,
       :)

Quote
"chupai chup n hovee jae laae rehaa liv thaar ||
By remaining silent, inner silence is not obtained, even by remaining lovingly absorbed deep within."

usually we look at silence as absence of sounds. When we look at silence in contrast to sound, we are still stuck in the realm of duality.
This is with reference to the physical silence. We all agree to this.
But often, we take mental silence to be the true "inner silence" !
If we observe carefully, we are still contrasting between "mental movements vs lack of mental movements" . that is still duality.
please see...
True inner silence is neither physical silence, nor mental silence, its that Awareness in whose presence physical and mental silence keep appearing and disappearing.

To put it in more technical terms: there are two kinds of samadhi ... citta samadhi is what people often talk about. citta samadhi means lack of thoughts  ... there is another kind of samadhi called cit samadhi, which means to abide in Awareness ... there ... the body continues as it is, mind continues as it is ... and this is true silence ... its not disturbed by thoughts , nor is it disturbed by sounds ! :)

True jnana is not to "control" , "vanquish" or even "kill" mind ... true jnana is to recognize that mind is a mirage , unreal , like a snake seen on a rope ... and then one makes no attempt to stop the snake from moving, nor does one try to get rid of the snake.

This kind of silence, which is undisturbed restufulness in the presence and absence of thoughts is not obtained by inner absorption ... its one's true nature ... one may discover it through total self surrender or more precisely right knowledge.

Love!
Silence

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5221 on: November 10, 2017, 04:52:22 PM »
Quote
Dear Sri Jewell, Yes, this is beautiful. I suppose that you have never been to Sri Arunachala. You who loved and worshipped Sri Arunachala so much from afar must visit at least once to the Abode where every Stone is the Lingam.

Yes,i never have visited Arunachala,and i simply cannot wait to come. Truly,the day when i start that journey,that day will be the happiest and most beautiful in my whole life!

Thank You,my dear friend!

With love,

srkudai

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5222 on: November 10, 2017, 05:10:45 PM »
जब मैं था तब हरी नहीं, अब हरी है मैं नाही |
सब अँधियारा मिट गया, दीपक देखा माही ||

Sri Kabir

When the mundane 'I' was there, there Hari (God) was not. Now Hari alone Is, and mundane 'I' has disappeared. When I saw the Light (Deepak) within, all darkness vanished and was not seen anymore. (Trans. by me)


:) Beautiful. Shared on my facebook as well.

Nishta

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5223 on: November 11, 2017, 02:57:56 AM »
... there is another kind of samadhi called cit samadhi, which means to abide in Awareness ... there ... the body continues as it is, mind continues as it is ... and this is true silence 

True jnana is not to "control" , "vanquish" or even "kill" mind ... true jnana is to recognize that mind is a mirage , unreal , like a snake seen on a rope ... and then one makes no attempt to stop the snake from moving, nor does one try to get rid of the snake.



Exactly!

Neither mind, body nor life need be changed. They can carry on as they do. What does it matter to the jnani who remains ever untouched.


... Although most who come to Advaita will likely commence by going into battle with mind. This seems to be inevitable in order to arrive at the understanding you write of.
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5224 on: November 11, 2017, 10:07:38 AM »
साहेब  तेरी  साहिबी , सब  घट  रही  समाय  |
ज्यो  मेहंदी  के  पात  में , लाली  लाखी  न  जाय  ||


saheb teri sahibi, sab ghat rahi samai;
jyon mehendi ke pat me, lali lakhi na jai.
 
O Master! Your Mastery (Your Essence) abides in all beings. But just as redness in the leaves of the henna plant (मेहंदी) is not discernible, likewise You are invisible (hidden) and cannot be known (by the senses). (translation by me-anil)


 
 
Dear devotees, to obtain the red pattern on the palm from henna leaves, one  first grinds them into a fine paste and then apply the paste on the palm in a desired pattern. When the paste dries and hand is washed, red pattern appears on the palm. In the same way, one must purify (grind) the mind by meditation on God to know or realize Him.




Dear Sri Udai, the reason why I am translating one Sri Kabir's Doha every day and posting it here is that I never found anywhere adequate and at least fairly accurate translation of the great Sage, Sri Kabir's profound Dohe (Verses). By Sri Bhagwan's Grace, endeavouring to translate them has given me occasions to deeply contemplate and mediate on them. Please see the use of the word 'लाखी' in the first line of the cited Verse, which again only means 'to know'. 

Dear Sri Udai, I have gone through your beautiful and brilliant post in response to my little query. I hope to come to it sometime in the day.

Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 01:58:11 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5225 on: November 11, 2017, 10:54:28 AM »
Quote from Sri Nishta:
"What is the most obvious?
What is always there when one looks?
Is it not the sense of "me", the sense "I exist"!"

"Maharshi says, "Asked who wakes up from sleep you say 'I'. Now you are told to hold fast to this 'I'. If it is done the eternal being will reveal itself.""

"How wonderful! How beautifully clear! That unavoidable and obvious "me-ness", that is always there when one looks. Just attend to it. Attend to it. Attend to it. And "the eternal being will reveal itself." Or more aptly (perhaps!), the "me-ness" fades away."




Dear Sri Nishta,

When I saw your post I felt an urge to respond, right there in your thread. But since you have locked it, you get my response here.

Yes, your understanding, in my view, is impeccable. However, I wish to say that if you have mentioned 'me-ness' as a metaphor to indicate the 'I'-ness, that's alright. But, in my view, the appropriate form of Enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is : 'Who Am I? or Whence Am I? What Am I?', etc., and not 'who is me? Or whence am me?', etc. Sri Bhagwan Himself never asked anybody to get rid of 'me-ness' but always 'I'-ness only. For, when 'I'-ness disappears, with it disappear 'my-ness' and 'me-ness' as well. This is so because, in my view, the nominative case of the pronoun 'I' is more intimate, more direct than its possessive case and objective case 'my' and 'me' respectively. Yet, having said thus, I wish to say that if the thought-wave has been arrested adequately, and one is able to contact the state of being, and remains as mere being (Summa Iru), this will not affect and make any difference in one's meditation. 

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil       
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:15:53 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5226 on: November 11, 2017, 01:33:16 PM »
Quote
"True inner silence is neither physical silence, nor mental silence, its that Awareness in whose presence physical and mental silence keep appearing and disappearing."



Dear Sri Udai,

Yes, there is no doubt whatever that in Awareness or in the Silence of the Self, physical silence as well as the mental silence will keep appearing and disappearing. You have said it all so beautifully.
It reminds me of the topic 'Silence is the perennial language', which I started, and posted a form of blank space to convey my idea of the silence at that time. Pat came your response in which you said which implied the same as the above quote conveys: That silence is not disturbed by words or speech. You add here mental silence to which I whole-heartedly concur.  This was perhaps in 2010.  I was very happy with your response and from that time on, I have always felt connected with you by the bond of love and friendship.

 

Quote:
"True jnana is not to "control" , "vanquish" or even "kill" mind ... true jnana is to recognize that mind is a mirage , unreal , like a snake seen on a rope ... and then one makes no attempt to stop the snake from moving, nor does one try to get rid of the snake."


Dear Sri Udai, I also agree totally with what you have said as in above quote, except that mind is so tenacious, and it finds subtle ways to escape its destruction or transcendence. Therefore, a struggle is inevitable, as Sri Nishta said so beautifully, before ego-body-mind complex is revealed to be illusory, for most of the sadhaks. I do not think that mere mental recognition is enough. 


Quote:
"This kind of silence, which is undisturbed restufulness in the presence and absence of thoughts is not obtained by inner absorption ... its one's true nature ... one may discover it through total self surrender or more precisely right knowledge."


Before, I say something regarding the above, I wish to know as to what is meant by 'inner absorption' in Japji's text as well as in the above quote. In fact, this was the question I wanted to ask of you. 



Thanks very much, dear friend, Sri Udai.
Pranam,
 Anil

« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 01:36:30 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5227 on: November 11, 2017, 01:38:24 PM »
कस्त्वं कोऽहं कुत आयातः
का मे जननी को मे तातः ।
इति परिभावय सर्वमसारम्
विश्वं त्यक्त्वा स्वप्नविचारम् ॥

V. २३, Bhaj Govindam

Who are you? Who am I? From where do I come? Who is my mother, who is my father? Ponder thus, look at everything as essence-less and give up the world as an idle dream.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5228 on: November 11, 2017, 02:33:16 PM »
Thus spake  Bhagwan Sri Ramana:
"Of course, we are employing the mind. It is well known and admitted that only with the help of the mind, can the mind be killed. But instead of setting about saying there is a mind and I want to kill it, you begin to seek its source, and then you find it does not exist at all. The mind turned outwards results in thoughts and objects. Turned inwards it becomes itself the Self."
"By steady and continuous investigation into the nature of the mind, the mind is transformed into That to which 'I' refers; and that is in fact the Self. The mind has necessarily to depend for its existence on something gross; it never subsists by itself. It is the mind that is otherwise called the subtle body, ego, jiva or soul."



Dear devotees, what is meant by cessation or destruction of the mind? Cessation or destruction of the mind and its transformation into That, that is, into the Self, are the one and same. It does not mean that one becomes mindless, like an inert stone. 

Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 02:35:08 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

srkudai

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5229 on: November 11, 2017, 04:14:26 PM »
Dear Anil ,
      :) Inner absorption in japji as well as my own quote means : "thoughtlessness" -- Mano-laya in Bhagavan's saying.

I would like to add few more thoughts ... this topic is so beautiful that any amount of explanation can be given :) ... its like enjoying a poetry ... please see ...

We have an extraordinary statement in Ashtavakra gita:

Quote
निःसंगो निष्क्रियोऽसि
त्वं स्वप्रकाशो निरंजनः।
अयमेव हि ते बन्धः
समाधिमनुतिष्ठति॥१-१५॥

There is no association [ no one else to associate with, relate with], and you are not the doer. Self effulgent and spotless you are. This alone is your bondage that you try to still the mind.

There is a nice story of a samurai. He won a great war and returned home... when he found a rather big rat in his house. Proud of his abilities, he took out the sword and tried to kill it but the rat proved out to be too fast for him. he tried a lot and finally got exhausted. He then woke his wife up and discussed the rat problem with her. She said "see, you may be a great samurai, but a foolish person. (wife you see) , to kill the rat, u do not use the sword, u use a cat, its that simple." . So he went out, brought a cat, big fat cat. but the cat tried a lot to catch the rat and it still failed. the rat was too fast for it. Then he went to the king's place and got the royal cat. the royal cat also could not catch the rat. As he felt exhausted, he happened to meet a wise man, who told him "see, these cats are fed by their owners and hence they lost their natural instinct. you need a natural cat and that can kill it". The samurai then went to the wild and brought a cat from there and the cat immediately caught the rat. Then he asked the cat "how did u catch it ? what was the strategy ? what was the approach ?" and the cat said "sir, its my nature. i simply caught it. there is no strategy, no approach, no method to what i did. it comes naturally to me" !!
Meditation is like that. it has to be natural. one cannot reach that silence by absorption, observing breath or anything ... all methods ... are only aids ... infact through methods its not possible at all. because every method is entertaining the ego[rat]. meditation is really the lack of ego, lack of a person inside. one cannot entertain the ego with a method and at the same time "try" to enter the realm of meditation. one cannot give this "ego" a reality and then think that one will eventually vanquish it.

All methods we use are artificial "owner-fed, tamed cats" ! They cannot catch the rat. for killing the rat, we need to get to the most natural and simple being, abidance ... Self.

Do you see this ? It is we who think there is a "real" ego ... and then try to "fight it" ... its like fighting with vaali in ramayan. we give it strength by treating it as real and then it wins. ego is a myth. please tell me ... where is me ?

body has no sense of me : deho na janati
awareness is pure witness.
and inbetween there are discrete thoughts ... where am i ?

thoughtlessly there cannot be a suffering .... and its such a wonder that discrete and momentary thoughts can create a sense of incompleteness or bondage that remains or stays !! what a wonder ! The point is ... its we who give it a reality by meditating on those momentary thoughts and creating a sense of "I" that seems to be "there" ! There is none !

Nothing to do, nowhere to go !

Love!
Silence
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 04:16:52 PM by srkudai »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5230 on: November 11, 2017, 06:30:23 PM »
Quote:
"Inner absorption in japji as well as my own quote means : "thoughtlessness" -- Mano-laya in Bhagavan's saying."


Dear Sri Udai, yes, it couldn't be otherwise. I understood that 'inner absorption' in Japji's Text is the manolaya or temporary subsidence or quietness of the mind, or lulling of the mind, Sri Bhagwan speaks of, and warns against its danger. It is well known among Sri Bahgwan's devotees that Sri Bhagwan used to narrate a story of a yogi in order to point out the necessity to go beyond such laya and guard against it. Underlining that such temporary quietness is an obstacle to further progress, Sri Bhagwan is said to have advised that the moment one experiences such stillness, one should revive consciousness and continue Enquiry till the mind is revealed to be non-existent, and it disappears. Certainly, this kind of inner absorption is not the real Silence, the Silence of the Self, Upanishad and Sages speak of.
Dear Sri Udai, your Bali's analogy is beautiful. However, I shall come to it again tomorrow. Thanks very much. Pranam, Anil   
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 07:00:15 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Nishta

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5231 on: November 12, 2017, 01:28:55 AM »

All methods we use are artificial "owner-fed, tamed cats" ! They cannot catch the rat. for killing the rat, we need to get to the most natural and simple being, abidance ... Self.




Yes, so the rat need only be ignored. This starves the rat, and it dies of its own accord.

Maharshi puts it nicely (as always!) when he states, "take no notice of the ego and its activities, but see only the light behind".

Nishta

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5232 on: November 12, 2017, 01:38:56 AM »
Sri Bhagwan is said to have advised that the moment one experiences such stillness, one should revive consciousness and continue Enquiry till the mind is revealed to be non-existent, and it disappears.


I believe the type of stillness Maharshi warned against is marked my dullness, stupor, trance like states.
Whereas the preferred stillness is fresh, alert, aware.

Is that your understanding also?

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5233 on: November 12, 2017, 10:16:50 AM »
तिमिर गया रवि देखते, कुमति गयी गुरू ज्ञान।
सुमति गयी अति लोभते, भक्ति गयी अभिमान।।

Sri Kabir

timir gaya ravi dekhate, kumati gayi guru gyan;
sumati gayi ati lobhate, bhakti gayi abhiman.
 
Just as darkness (तिमिर) disappears as soon as the Sun rises, likewise, wrong knowledge or darkness of ignorance (कुमति) comes to an end by following the Jnana-Upadesa (Teaching of Truth) imparted by the Jnana-Guru. Just as right knowledge or wisdom is lost on account of excessive greed, so Bhakti is lost because of ego-engendered pride (अभिमान). (traans. By me-anil)






Dear devotees, the great Sage Sri Kabir taught the essence of all Scriptures in simple Dohe or Sakhis, which are couplets composed spontaneouslsy with wonderful musical rhythm. These Dohe or Sakhis are invaluable and gem-like, which are regarded as the supreme testimony for the possibility of the realization of profound Truth, here and now.

Dear devotees  as soon as I finished typing the above, I saw following message in WhatsApp from Sri Ramana:


As a lion seen in a dream by an elephant, awakens him, so the Guru, who is a Sage, awakens the disciple from the dream of ignorance.
V. 135, Guru Ramana Vachana  Mala


What a happy coincidence!!   

Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 10:21:43 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5234 on: November 12, 2017, 10:58:23 AM »
Quote from Sri Nishta:
"Sri Bhagwan is said to have advised that the moment one experiences such stillness, one should revive consciousness and continue Enquiry till the mind is revealed to be non-existent, and it disappears."


"I believe the type of stillness Maharshi warned against is marked my dullness, stupor, trance like states.
Whereas the preferred stillness is fresh, alert, aware."
"Is that your understanding also?"




Dear Sri Nishta,

Yes, that is my understanding also. What are these states--dullness, stupor, trance, fainting fit, etc.? These are states in which there is no awareness whatsoever. World-consciousness is totally obliterated. However, just as the three states of waking, dream and sleep pertain to the mind, so also, trance, fainting fit, unconsciousness, etc., are only for the mind, and not for the Self, for, the Self is always aware, never non-aware.

Yes, the Self is ever fresh, ever alert and ever aware. We are the Self. Therefore, our Natural State is that in which there is perfect awareness along with perfect peace or quietness in the mind. Sri Bhagwan has taught that this is exactly the State to be cherished as the Goal to be aimed at. This State is always there whether one is aware or not. Sri Bhagwan has taught that abiding in this State permanently alone is Jnana or Knowledge.

Thanks very much, dear Sri Nishta.
Pranam,
 Anil     
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 11:00:27 AM by eranilkumarsinha »