Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758730 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3765 on: September 06, 2014, 08:01:07 AM »
A passage from the great devotee, the Professor, Sri G.V. Subbaramayya's reminiscences:

"Some years ago I had been initiated into two mantras and was enjoined to repeat them a minimum number of times every day. I had been doing it punctiliously, but now after entering the Ashram, I had no mind to repeat the mantras or do any kind of formal worship. After a few days I was seized with the fear of incurring sin by failing to observe the instructions of my initiation.  So I put it to Sri Bhagwan Himself, making a clean breast of my default. Sri Bhagwan smiled and said, "Just because you have done so much of japa (repetition of mantras), its merit has brought you here. Why should you now fear while enjoying the fruit of your japa?""

 

Dear devotees, the pattern is only too familiar! Is it not?

Pranam,
  Anil

Note: Dear Sri Ravi, I have just gone through all your recent posts under this thread, but have not been able to gather as to what you really wished to convey.  However, I shall read them once again in the evening when I return from the office, and if I feel a need, I shall certainly respond to some of the points and observations contained in these posts.  Right now I could not form an understanding. out of them.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 08:04:28 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3766 on: September 06, 2014, 08:57:55 AM »
Anil,
The gist of the posts is as follows:

1.It is only the advanced aspirant who can pursue self-enquiry(actually abidance) as a stand alone sadhana(without upasana).For the vast majority of aspirants some form of upasana is unavoidable.Not just that it is unavoidable ,it will be highly beneficial to practice some form of upasana like prayer,chants,Bhajan,parayana,worship,etc.Sri Bhagavan recognized  and encouraged this.This is what is being practised in Sri Ramanasramam.

2. Sri Bhagavan recognized and encouraged that other forms of sadhana (the so called indirect ones)like japa are equally efficacious as well.I have quoted from Sri Bhagavan's akshara maNa mAlai as a clear statement for this:

அருணாசலம் என அகமே நினைப்பவர்
அகத்தை வேர் அறுப்பாய் அருணாசலா.

O Arunachala, You root out the ego of those who think 'Arunachalam' in the heart.

3.One need not bother about the Hierarchy of spiritual practices and try to choose the 'Best' and dispense with the 'not so best'.Here is an excerpt from The Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi:
Talk 55.
D.: Can advaita be realised by japa of holy names; say Rama, Krishna, etc.?
M.: Yes.
D.: Is it not a means of an inferior order?
M.: Have you been told to make japa or to discuss its order in the scheme of things?

Silence.

Please do not spend time in going through my previous posts if they do not make sense to you.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 09:16:46 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3767 on: September 06, 2014, 09:04:14 AM »
Anil/Friends,
People often wonder why I just simply quote from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and do not express what I have to say-Here is a classic case where having done so,I may have perhaps created more confusion than resolving anything!

Here is the excerpt from The Gospel:
God can be realized through all paths. All religions are true. The important thing is to reach the roof. You can reach it by stone stairs or by wooden stairs or by bamboo steps or by a rope. You can also climb up by a bamboo pole.

Namaskar

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3768 on: September 06, 2014, 09:21:04 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Just one thought, or rather an humble observation, I felt urged to share, is that, Self enquiry also is just an Upasana among so many other kinds of Upasanas, which are the Sethu Bridge, which facilitate the Jeevaatma to traverse towards Paramaatma.

Self enquiry, itself actually isn't actual abidance, in my humble understanding, it is yet another method that helps facilitate one to cut asunder the darkness of limited identity.

--
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 09:24:48 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3769 on: September 06, 2014, 09:40:57 AM »
Nagaraj,
I agree with you.self enquiry in its preliminary stage is a yukti to detach the attention from extraneous thoughts and turning the attention within to the center of our being.Once one gets past this it becomes upasana(taking a seat near the Self,so to say)and the pull that keeps one centered   is Bhakti.This is smarana as well.All practices converge here.Only they accomplish the initial phase of cutting in behind the thought curtain in a different way.sometimes,a simple prayer can leapfrog one directly here and without the unnecessary need to handle thoughts frontally and detaching oneself from thoughts.
Ultimately it is all terminological differences only;essence is always the same.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3770 on: September 06, 2014, 11:14:09 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi, Sri Anil ji and friends,

I vaguely remembered this poem I had previously read only in my schools, and I searched it out and how wonderful it is. I am not sure, it may have been posted before as well, but yet, I would like to post it again here:

Where The Mind Is Without Fear
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high
Where knowledge is free
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls
Where words come out from the depth of truth
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit
Where the mind is led forward by thee
Into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.

Rabindranath Tagore
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3771 on: September 06, 2014, 01:52:41 PM »
"THE  RECIPIENT  OF  HIS  GRACE  WOULD  UNFAILINGLY  RECOGNISE  IT."
Sri A.R. Natarajan


Dear Devotees,


Sri A.R. Natarajan, the late President of the R.M.C.L., writes enthrallingly in the 'Introduction' of one of his beautiful publications, 'The First Meetings with Ramana Maharshi' as following:

We have seen many pictures of Ramana which speak, which converse, which enthral. But when we read a first person account of the breath-taking charm of His Presence, we cannot help feeling how fortunate those devotees were. True, where can He go? This timeless One! He is very much alive today, as then, for the hearts which can behold His beauty, for the minds which attune themselves to His all pervasive Presence. The thought of Him is nectarine. Yet one likes to read the descriptions. Let a few extracts speak: "It seemed to me that I had never before known what a smile was", "I began to realise that the body is the Temple of the Holy Ghost-I could only feel His body was not the man, merely a sitting motionless corpse from which God was radiating terrifically", "The blazing Presence that radiated through everything, His Presence made me glow with happiness and made my heart jump into sky", "My mind was caught and held in that peace, in a blissfulness it had never known before", and so on.     The limitation of vocabulary, of words steps in when one tries to describe the indescribable. Notwithstanding this fact, the very reading of these autobiographical accounts makes one's hairs stand on end, and transports one beyond the fetters of the mind.

Nothing happens by accident in the divine scheme of things. Some like Eleanor Noye came to Him  totally unprepared for such a joyous take over of their lives. Some like Paul Brunton came in spite of themselves, battling against themselves. Some like Chadwick came through reading books about Him. Some like Mouni Sadhu and Arthur Osborne came after practicing the direct path of Self-enquiry in some form or the other. But all found one thing in common, the blissful atmosphere which surrounded Him, the ecstasy of His Grace. The radiation from His heart held them in the sweep of its vastness. From then on Ramana became the central figure in their lives, the very core of their being. The memory of their meetings with Him never faded for them for they were indelibly engraved on their hearts.

As for teachings there is plenty of it in these narrations. To Walter Keers Ramana has emphasised the immediacy of Self-knowledge: "You are looking for your glasses and they are right on your nose. To Humphreys He talked about unitary vision: "Do not fix your attention on all these changing things in life, on death, phenomena. Do not even think of the actual act of seeing them or perceiving them but only on that which sees all these things. That which is responsible for it all". Or we could refer to the advice given to Viswanatha Swami: : "It is only on the awakening of a power mightier than the senses and the mind that these can be subdued. If you awaken and nurture the growth of that power within you everything will be conquered."


Dear devotees, Sri Natarajan writes further  that when one reads reminiscences about Sri Bhagwan's Life, He is brought closer, made intimate, and verily our own. One feels His strong physical Presence, His life giving smile, His lustrous eyes are there with us restoring to us what we have lost--the fullness of natural happiness.   


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 05:37:00 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3772 on: September 06, 2014, 05:18:09 PM »
Anil,

Quote
Dear devotees, Sri Rajan writes further  that when one reads reminiscences about Sri Bhagwan's Life, He is brought closer, made intimate, and verily our own. One feels His strong physical Presence, His life giving smile, His lustrous eyes are there with us restoring to us what we have lost--the fullness of natural happiness.

This is Bhagavatham,a sweet and easy way.There is one book that I consider as Bhagavatham -and this is 'Letters from Sri Ramanasramam' by Suri Nagamma.
Here is the very first letter that she wrote to her Brother Sri D S Sastri.

Brother, you have asked me to write to you from time to time whatever striking happens in Sri Bhagavan's presence and what Sri Bhagavan says on such occasions.
But am I capable of doing so? Anyway, I will make an attempt and am beginning this very day. The attempt will succeed only if Bhagavan's Grace is on it. The day before yesterday being full moon, the usual Deepotsava (festival of lights) was celebrated on a grand scale.
This morning Sri Arunachaleswarar started for giri pradakshina (going round the hill) with the usual retinue and devotees and accompaniment of music. By the time the procession reached the Ashram gate, Sri Niranjanananda Swami (the Sarvadhikari) came out with Ashram devotees, offered coconuts and camphor to Sri Arunachaleswarar, and paid homage when the procession was stopped and the priests performed arati (waving of the lights) to the God. Just then Sri Bhagavan
happened to be going towards the Gosala (cowshed) and seeing the grandeur he sat down on the pial near the tap by the side of the book depot. The arati plate offered to Arunachaleswarar was brought to Bhagavan by Ashram devotees and Sri Bhagavan took a little Vibhuti (holy ashes) and applied it to his forehead, saying in an undertone 'Appakku Pillai Adakkam' (The son is beholden to the father). His voice seemed choked with emotion as he spoke. The expression on his face proved
the ancient saying 'bhakti poornathaya Jnanam' (the culmination of devotion is knowledge). Sri Bhagavan is Lord Siva?s son. Sri Ganapati Muni's saying that he is Skanda incarnate, was confirmed. It struck us that Bhagavan was teaching us that since all creatures are the children of Ishwara, even a Jnani should be beholden to Ishwara.
We can never tell how pregnant with meaning are the words of Mahatmas. You ask me to write somehow, but how can I convey the exquisite beauty of his utterances? How can I describe adequately? I wrote in a recent poem that every word that falls from his lips is scripture. Why talk of his words alone? If one has the ability to understand, his very gaze and gait, his action and inaction, inhaling and exhaling - everything about him is full of meaning. Have I the capacity to understand and interpret all this? With full faith in Sri Bhagavan's grace, I shall write to you whatever occurs to me, serving Sri Bhagavan with the devotion of the squirrel to Sri Rama.

The letters bring before our eyes the happenings in Sri Bhagavan's presence in a simple,sweet,quiet and intimate way.The Reader is left to taste it in his own way,without  being overtly flooded by the writer's thoughts and feelings.
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 05:21:47 PM by Ravi.N »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3773 on: September 06, 2014, 05:24:25 PM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj Ji:
"Just one thought, or rather an humble observation, I felt urged to share, is that, Self enquiry also is just an Upasana among so many other kinds of Upasanas"
   

Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Everybody is free to have his own views, theories, deductions, and understanding. Therefore, I am sorry, but as far as I am concerned, I can have nothing to do whatever with a statement, which suggests or seems to suggest, even remotely, that the Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bahgwan is just a upasana or a method among so many other kinds of upasanas or methods. Although I am also not against any form of sadhana or spiritual practice, I know, Sri Bhagwan has taught, that attending to one's own Self is supreme devotion to God, for the Self is God. I am also aware that one has to do some Self-enquiry or take to at least a little Self-attention in order to reach final Goal, even though one may have been advancing through some other paths, that is, one has to finally reach the Direct Path to reach the Destination, even though one may have been overhauling laboriously most of the distance though lanes and by-lanes with the possibility always lurking that one may get derailed.

It is not for nothing that Sri Muruganar sang that those who took to the pure and supreme path of Self-enquiry were never derailed because, like the sun, this supremely direct path itself revealed to its practiser its own unchallengeable clarity and uniqueness.


I have indeed found, as Sri Bhagwan has taught, that the Self-enquiry is the Practice as well as the Goal.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,   
   Anil
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 05:28:24 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3774 on: September 06, 2014, 06:28:06 PM »
              Still Heart

When I give up the helm
I know that the time has come for thee to take it.
What there is to do will be instantly done.
Vain is this struggle.

Then take away your hands
and silently put up with your defeat, my heart,
and think it your good fortune to sit perfectly still
where you are placed.

These my lamps are blown out at every little puff of wind,
and trying to light them I forget all else again and again.

But I shall be wise this time and wait in the dark,
spreading my mat on the floor;
and whenever it is thy pleasure, my lord,
come silently and take thy seat here.

Sri Rabindranath Tagore

Jewell

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3775 on: September 06, 2014, 07:22:24 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Quote
1.It is only the advanced aspirant who can pursue self-enquiry(actually abidance) as a stand alone sadhana(without upasana).For the vast majority of aspirants some form of upasana is unavoidable.Not just that it is unavoidable ,it will be highly beneficial to practice some form of upasana like prayer,chants,Bhajan,parayana,worship,etc.Sri Bhagavan recognized  and encouraged this.This is what is being practised in Sri Ramanasramam.

One simple question. How we can actually know who is advanced aspirant,and who is not?

 In this way we are degrading or elevating people,which cannot be good. If someone thinks 'I am advanced' his pride come and he is spoiled,and if someone thinks " I am miserable worm" he is degrading himself. And he actually is neither of the two.

Only fully Selfrealized Sage can determine who needs what,and can teach people. Even people themselves are not aware are they 'advanced or not'. To use Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa's analogy,only man free of 'woman and gold' (which actually means free of greed and lust) can know who needs what. Not any other man.

How much i saw so far,japa,or any other form of worship and practice,is equally hard as selfenquiry. Selfenquiry needs big amount of concentration,like japa too. If we wish to do it properly we must be fully absorbed in it,thinking about these words,visualising God,etc. To try it seriously we will find that there is no actual difference between the two.
This again is subtly coming on 'war' between jnana and bhakti. So long we are making distinctions,we do not understand them both.

Not all the things we do like practice,or this very journeying,can be put in black and white therms. Nor we can rationalize them and give them exact shape.

There is an impression that all other practices purify us,but not selfenquiry. This is far from truth. Selfenquiry also cleans us from our impurities,so to say,or make us see what we are not. Which is actually the point!

Just to say,i do not think that some practice is better than other! All are equally good. There is no superior method.
Only,the fact is,Bhagavan did teach selfenquiry actually...

With love and prayers,

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3776 on: September 06, 2014, 07:35:15 PM »
Dear Sri Anil Ji,

I hope you not mind some pointers, if i just present some comments that might be a tease for the vibrating mind, anyways, it is of good thing, as these helps one and all to become better and better:

as I am concerned, I can have nothing to do whatever with a statement, which suggests or seems to suggest, even remotely, that the Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bahgwan is just a upasana or a method among so many other kinds of upasanas or methods.

It appears from your expressions, response to my post, a feeling from you that sounds "how dare somebody says Self Enquiry is just a Upasana, Self Enquiry is much greater and bigger, greatest no body dare make it just a Upasana, it is much bigger than other mere upasanas"

However you did say, you are not against other sadhanas, fair enough! But, While i appreciate your extreme devotion to the path of Self Enquiry, am afraid there is a sense in you that expresses, perhaps unnoticed by you, Self Enquiry is above all other paths.

Your words express so much distaste as if hurt to even compare Self Enquiry with other paths. It is as if you dont even want Self Enquiry to be mentioned among other paths.

I have indeed found, as Sri Bhagwan has taught, that the Self-enquiry is the Practice as well as the Goal.

Well, a Upasana is verily just as you have said above! Upasana is none else! Upasana is like the fire stick by which you burn the funeral pyre and eventually put the stick into the pyre as well! Every Upasana is an end in itself!

I appreciate your devotion but am afraid, you are totally biased and closed minded. The spirit of your reasoning is not all inclusive, am afraid!

I hope you would take the tease in spirit. You may chose to ignore. no hard feelings, these are all just illusions!

:)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 07:38:19 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3777 on: September 06, 2014, 07:37:20 PM »
Jewell,

Quote
One simple question. How we can actually know who is advanced aspirant,and who is not?

One who finds it natural to be  engaged in spiritual practice without intermission.It is for each one of us to see where we are.It is not for the purpose of evaluating others.

No,there is no 'war' between Bhakti and Jnana-both are ultimately the same.

Namaskar.


Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3778 on: September 06, 2014, 08:28:19 PM »
Just for the benefit of all, Dear friends, Effort towards Ultimate Truth is broadly classified into two:

Saguna Upasana and
Nirguna Upasana

In Saguna meditation, the devotee considers himself as entirely different from the object of worship. The worshipper makes a total, unreserved, ungrudging, self-surrender to the Lord. He respects, honours, adores the Lord and depends on Him for everything, for food, protection and his very existence. He looks always for help of any sort from the Ishta Devata. There is nothing independent for him. He is an instrument in the hands of the Lord. His hands, legs, senses, mind, Buddhi, physical body belong to the Lord. A devotee does not at all like the idea of Jnana or merging. He likes to have his separate entity as a servant and to serve, worship and love the Lord always. He does not like to become sugar as a Jnani, but like to taste sugar and eat sugar. This method of worship is one of contraction. Suppose there is a circle. You have a position in the centre. You contract yourself to a point and merge in the circumference. This is Saguna meditation. This is suitable for people of emotional temperament. Vast majority of persons are fit for this line of worship only.

In Nirguna meditation, the aspirant takes himself as Brahman. He denies and sublates the false adjuncts or fictitious environments as egoism, mind and body. He depends upon himself and upon himself alone. The aspirant asserts boldly. He reflects, reasons out, investigates, discriminates and meditates on the Self. He does not want to taste sugar but wants to become a solid mass of sugar itself. He wants merging. He likes to be identical with Brahman. This method is one of expansion of lower self. Suppose there is a circle. You have a position in the centre. You so expand by Sadhana to a very great extent that you occupy the whole circle, and envelop the circumference. This method of meditation is suitable for persons of fine intellect, bold understanding, strong and accurate reasoning and powerful will. Only a microscopic minority of persons is fit for this line of meditation.

(Swami Sivananda)

--

Bhagavan's Self Enquiry falls under Nirguna Upasana. Each follows what each is well inclined with. But What ever each one follows, must have equal Samatva Bhava (as often said by Bhagavan) towards all and all paths.

A Saguna Upasaki sees Narayana in all, He becomes a servent of Servant of Gods, such is his humble attitude.
A Nirguna Upasaki sees Self in all, He becomes the Brahman principle in all, Brahman is all, and sees no difference.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3779 on: September 06, 2014, 11:12:56 PM »
Dear Sri Anil ji,

Where knowledge divides, love unites!
Where love divides, knowledge unites!

Extending a hand of love. I know we have had some some sweet as well as sour exchanges before, but the Self is beyond both. In the self, we have no differences, off the self, always there are differences!

Wish you happiness and peace dear friend. Hope Ganges will be clean soon :-)

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta