Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758276 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3420 on: September 21, 2013, 03:37:36 PM »
Dear Sri Krishna,


Both practices are one and the same. Sri Bhagwan has taught that the ego or the ‘I’-thought cannot exist without an object (form). So, if attention is focussed on the subjective feeling of ‘I’ or ‘I am’ with such intensity that thoughts such as ‘I am this or that’ does not arise, then the individual ‘I’ will not be able to connect with objects. If this awareness of  ‘I’ is sustained for sufficiently long period, the individual ‘I’ or the ego or the ‘I’-thought will vanish and in its place there will be direct experience of the Self.

“I’-thought rises from the Self and subsides back into the Self when its tendency to identify with thought and objects ceases. This is why Sri Bhagwan taught to hold the ‘I’-thought and to trace it back to its source. Therefore, the implication is the same, for the Self is the Source.

Dear Sri Krishna, whether one holds the ego or the ‘I’-thought or the individual ‘I’, and trace it back to its Source; or one maintains awareness of the ‘I’-thought until it is dissolved in the Source, that is, the Self, from which it came, the meaning and implication are the same.

Self-enquiry for me has always meant to be ‘turning Selfwards’ or attending to the Self and the Enquiry in the forms of ‘Whence am I?’ and ‘Who am I?’ are the forms of Self-attention.

For instance in the ‘Who am I?’Sri Bhagwan teaches  that if other thoughts rise, thereby indicating that the Self-attention has been lost, one should ask, ‘To whom did they rise?’ It will be known ‘to me’. If one then enquires ‘Who am I?’ the mind will turn back to its Source (Self)and then since no one is there to attend to the thought which had risen will subside. On the other hand Sri Bhagwan says in ‘who am I?’ that if one resorts uninterruptedly to Self-remembrance, that is, remembrance of or attention to the mere feeling ‘I’ until one attains Self, that alone will be enough.

Sri Bhagwan: Remaining firmly in Self-abidance (Atma-nishtha) without giving even the least room to the rising of any thought other than the ‘thought of the Self’ (Atma-chintanai) is surrendering oneself to God.

Dear Sri Krishna, Atma-chintanai or the thought of the Self is nothing but the Self-attention.

Sri Bhagwan: Forgetfulness must be for the self—well, of what? Of the Self? Are there then two selves? Practice removes the samskaras.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3421 on: September 21, 2013, 03:39:16 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
“What is the motivation behind Sadhana?Sri Bhagavan clearly sets this in the very opening lines of 'who am I'?
Quote
Quote
As all jivas desire to be forever happy devoid of sorrow,as everyone has supreme love for oneself,as happiness is the cause of this Love(self love)-this happiness that is intrinsic to one and is experienced daily in deep sleep sans mind-to attain that happiness,one has to know oneself.”


Dear Sri Ravi,

Sri Bhagwan taught in the very opening lines of ‘Who am I?’ that since all living beings desire to be happy always without any misery, since in everyone Supreme Love exists only for oneself, and since happiness alone is the cause of love, in order to obtain that happiness , which is  ONE’S  VERY  NATURE  and which is experienced daily in deep sleep, where there is no mind,  IT  IS  NECESSARY  FOR  ONE  TO  KNOW  ONESELF.  For that, Sri Bhagwan taught that the Enquiry in the form ‘Who am I?’ alone is the principal means, MUKHYA SADHANA.

It, therefore, follows from the above Teaching that the mind which has grasped rather well that the consciousness that shines as ‘I’ alone is the Source of full and real happiness, will invariably now seek the Self. It is because of the natural craving for unbroken happiness of the creatures.  HENCE,   THE  INTENSE  LONGING  FOR  THE  SELF  BECAUSE  OF  ITS  NATURAL  CRAVING  FOR  HAPPINESS,  IS  INDEED  THE  HIGHEST  FROM  OF  DEVOTION  OR  BHAKTI.


Thanks very much, dear Sri Ravi.
Pranam,
  Anil

Anand

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3422 on: September 21, 2013, 07:23:12 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,
Many thanks to you for taking the time to patiently go through and revert for my queries as also Sri Krishnan's towards self enquiry.With the inputs from you and our other noble friends ,  along with the guidance from within, I shall try to practice the same diligently.
I am sure that our groups' blessings along with Bhagavan's are there with you in your focussed endeavour towards self enquiry and which in return, also helps others like us, who are trying to get a frim grip on the practice.
Many thanks once again.
Regards,Anand Sundaram.
Sundaram Anand

Anand

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3423 on: September 21, 2013, 07:30:26 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,
There is this just this one other thing where I had need your kind blessing in reverting .Can we continue the practice of "To whom are these thoughts ,to me ,who am I " even after the mind has achieved relative quiescence till the last concept dies down as mentioned in "Who am I" or is it better to try to alternate above practice with "self abidance " in the form of concentrating  on the "I am" feeling.
Regards,
Anand Sundaram.
Sundaram Anand

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3424 on: September 21, 2013, 08:16:34 PM »
A pundit was sitting with the devotees. He came from upper India.
Master (Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa) (smiling to M.): “The pundit is a great student of the Bhagavata.”
M. and other devotees looked at the pundit.
Master (to the pundit): Well, sir, what is Yogamaya?
The pundit gave some sort of explanation.
Master: Why is not Radhika called Yogamaya?
The pundit also answered this question after a fashion.
Master: Radika is full of unmixed sattva, the embodiment of prema. Yogamaya contains all the three gunas—sattva, rajas, and tamas; but Radhika has nothing but pure sattava.
(To M.) “Narendra now respects Radhika very much. he says that if anyone wants to know how to love Satchidananda, he can learn it from her.”
“Satchidananda wanted to taste divine bliss for Itself. That is why It created Radhika. She was created from the person of Satchidananda Krishna. Satchidananda Krishna is the ‘container’, and He Himself, in the from of Radhika, is the ‘contained’. He manifested Himself in that way in order to experience divine bliss by loving Satchidananda.
“Therefore, it is written in Vaishnava books that after her birth Radhika did not open eyes. The idea is that she did not wish to see any human being. Yasoda came with Krishna in her arms to see Radhika. Only then did she open her eyes, to behold Krishna. In a playful mood Krishna touched her eyes. Have not you seen this? Small children touch others’ eyes with their hands.
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

Pranam,
  Anil
       

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3425 on: September 21, 2013, 10:28:30 PM »
Anil,

Quote
It, therefore, follows from the above Teaching that the mind which has grasped rather well that the consciousness that shines as ‘I’ alone is the Source of full and real happiness, will invariably now seek the Self. It is because of the natural craving for unbroken happiness of the creatures.  HENCE,   THE  INTENSE  LONGING  FOR  THE  SELF  BECAUSE  OF  ITS  NATURAL  CRAVING  FOR  HAPPINESS,  IS  INDEED  THE  HIGHEST  FROM  OF  DEVOTION  OR  BHAKTI

Anilbhai,I do not practice vichara.I  agree with what you have stated that Devotion carries one deep into oneself.

As for Sri Bhagavan's 'who am I'?,as I understand it-it is to train the attention on the root thought 'I'-questioning its very presence.It was not there in sleep;it is now there on waking up.This searchlight of uninterrupted attention on this 'I' feeling and questioning its very presence,Sri Bhagavan seems to say(as I understand) undermines it,and in its place there is the unnameable-the source or Being.

As I understand,Sri Bhagavan has recommended the 'who am I?' as an enquiry-so that one does not get stuck in a 'Status Quo' position when the mind is relatively quiet.He wants the seeker to keep up the intensity and not relent until the mind returns to the source and is resolved there in.

Alternatively,he has suggested the path of surrender-and this is what you have mentioned in your quote.Either way,one has to get rid of the 'I' ,-the chit- jada granthi.
 
Devotees who are attracted to vichara and practise it would do well to  read Sri Bhagavan's works, read it over and over again and invoke his grace and guidance.

Namaskar.





Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3426 on: September 22, 2013, 08:35:07 AM »
Friends,

An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

THE YOUNGER NAREN: "Sir, have we any free will?"
MASTER: "Just try to find out who this 'I' is. While you are searching for 'I', 'He' comes out. 'I am the machine and He is the Operator.' You have heard of a mechanical toy that goes into a store with a letter in its hand. You are like that toy. God alone is the Doer. Do your duties in the world as if you were the doer, but knowing all the time that God alone is the Doer and you are the instrument.
"As long as the upadhi exists there is ignorance. 'I am a scholar', 'I am a jnani', 'I am wealthy', 'I am honourable', 'I am the master, father, and teacher' -all these ideas are begotten of ignorance. 'I am the machine and You are the Operator' - that is Knowledge. In the state of Knowledge all upadhis are destroyed. When the log is burnt up entirely, there is no more sound; no heat either. Everything cools down. Peace! Peace! Peace!

Namaskar.

ksksat27

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3427 on: September 22, 2013, 01:55:47 PM »
Dear Sri Anil,
There is this just this one other thing where I had need your kind blessing in reverting .Can we continue the practice of "To whom are these thoughts ,to me ,who am I " even after the mind has achieved relative quiescence till the last concept dies down as mentioned in "Who am I" or is it better to try to alternate above practice with "self abidance " in the form of concentrating  on the "I am" feeling.
Regards,
Anand Sundaram.

Dear Anand,

I asked David Godman long back proof's for Maharishee's endorsement of this I am feeling and self attention stuff.  He indeed quoted some dialogues and sent me.

Now what it seems to me is,self enquiry is a mystical tool -- not everybody is going to get appealed to the same mode of practice.  Only common parameter where everybody agree is , to be sure on what is not a self enquiry method (for eg, Bhagavan's Self. Enquiry is definitely not neti neti approach, it is not defininitely a mantra repition,  it is not definitely a bhava meditation , one should not answer who am i by saying I am He or I am Brahman,  one should not concentrate on right hand side of the chest as Heart etc.)

in all this everybody will agree to define clearly what it is not.

But what is self enquiry will remain a mystery , deep inside if you go practicing it,  I think Self Enquiry is going to be revealing itself in one of the many variant forms of the standard structure of ways available.

In that context, I think you are the best judge on what variant you can adopt (ofcourse you cannot take one of the non Self. Enq. ways like neti neti and claim that it is what you interpret)

but within allowed right interpretations, what is going to appeal to you and how you are going to ultimately grasp the meaning will be a mystery only knowable to you. nobody else however great sadhaka of self enquiry will be able to answer or convince you (me too  :))

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3428 on: September 22, 2013, 03:16:25 PM »
Quote from Sri Anand Sundaram:
“Can we continue the practice of "To whom are these thoughts ,to me ,who am I " even after the mind has achieved relative quiescence till the last concept dies down as mentioned in "Who am I" or is it better to try to alternate above practice with "self abidance " in the form of concentrating on the "I am" feeling.”



Dear Sri Anand Sundaram,

Sri Bhagwan has taught that keeping always the mind (attention) fixed in the Self (in the feeling ‘I’) is called Self-enquiry. So, such a firm fixing of our attention on the Self alone is Self-enquiry.
“Remaining firmly in Self-abidance, without giving even the least room to the rising of any thought other than the thought of the Self is surrendering oneself to God. “

Therefore, all we have to do is to practice to be just still (Summa Iru) with the remembrance of the ‘I’-consciousness or the feeling ‘I’. We should remain vigilant and not give even the least room to the rising of any thought. The rise of a thought is itself an indication that the Self-attention has slackened. The rise of a thought simply means that our Self-attention has been lost. So, only to win back our attention from the thought that Sri Bhagwan taught to ask, “To whom do these thoughts have come?”, the answer will be  “To me” and then to ask “Who am I?” Therefore, it follows that this form of the enquiry is only a contrivance to win back the lost Self-attention from the thought.

Dear Sri Anand, Sri Bhagwan has taught that the Self-enquiry is not sitting down for hours together and doing japa of ‘Who am I?’ mentally or vocally.  We need to dive within. And diving within is to hold the ‘I’-consciousness and thereby gaining greater and greater concentration, clarity and stillness. Merely to keep on questioning is not the Self-enquiry or the Self-attention. We need to penetrate the thought-waves on the surface and attend to the being-consciousness by diving deep within. We are not supposed to endlessly repeat ‘To whom?’, ‘To me’, and ‘Who am I?’ sequence.  SOMETIMES  SOME  DEVOTEES  EVEN  WAIT  FOR  THE  NEXT  THOUGHT  TO  RISE  SO  THAT  THEY  CAN  FIRE  THESE  QUESTIONS  AT  IT ! This is simply ridiculous, to say the least!

Therefore, it follows from the above discussion that if only we move away from the Self (Self-abidance or the Self-attention) and go back to mind and identify with a risen thought that we have to enquire again and go back to our Self.  WHEN WE FORGET THE STATE OF BEING ‘OURSELVES’, THEN IS THE TIME TO ENQUIRE, “WHO  HAS  FORGOTTEN  THE  SELF  AND  WHO  IS  HAVING  DOUBT  AND  CONFUSION,  WHO  AM  I?”  ENQUIRING  IN  THIS WAY  WE  NEED  TO COME  AGAIN  TO  OURSELVES  EVERYTIME   OUR  VIGILLANCE  IN SELF-ATTENTION  IS  LOST.

Remember: If we remain as the Self, there is neither the body nor the mind which says ‘I’. Who is this ‘I’? Sri Bhagwan has taught that it is neither the body nor the mind. So, What is this ‘I’ after all? WE  NEED  TO  ENQUIRE  AND  FIND  OUT  FOR  OURSELVES.


Thanks very much, dear Sri Anand.
Pranam,
  Anil 
‘ 


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3429 on: September 22, 2013, 06:11:22 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi:
“He wants the seeker to keep up the intensity and not relent until the mind returns to the source and is resolved there in.

Alternatively,he has suggested the path of surrender-and this is what you have mentioned in your quote.Either way,one has to get rid of the 'I' ,-the chit- jada granthi.

Devotees who are attracted to vichara and practise it would do well to read Sri Bhagavan's works, read it over and over again and invoke his grace and guidance.”


Dear Sri Ravi,

Ji. Yes. Thanks very much, sir. Sri Bhagwan has taught that the mind is nothing other than the ‘I’-thought. Therefore, if we maintain awareness of the ‘I’-thought or the feeling ‘I’ relentlessly,  it is dissolved in the Source from where it arose. It is dissolved in its Source because it has no being, it is unreal. It is said to be resolved in the Source the same way as the snake is resolved into the substratum, that is, the rope, on investigation.

Dear Sri Ravi, why should only those devotees who are attracted to Vichara and practice it  read Sri Bhagwan’s Works? I have always felt that not only those who are drawn to Vichara, not only devotees of Sri Bhagwan, but any earnest devotee who wishes to take to a spiritual discipline and desires to live a spiritual life must read Sri Bhagwan’s Works.

Thanks very much, sir.
Pranam,
  Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3430 on: September 23, 2013, 01:01:06 PM »
Anil,

Quote
I have always felt that not only those who are drawn to Vichara, not only devotees of Sri Bhagwan, but any earnest devotee who wishes to take to a spiritual discipline and desires to live a spiritual life must read Sri Bhagwan’s Works

Indeed yes.Not all works of Sri Bhagavan are easily accessible to one and all-for instance Ulladu Narpadhu.On the other hand the Akshara Mana malai,Arunachala Pancharatnam,Appalam pattu,Atma Vidya Keertanam are among the most loved of his works.
For Guidance on self -enquiry,'nan yar' alone will do.There is nothing that is not covered there.
The Atma Vidya Keertanam is a favourite of mine as also Akshara Mana Malai.Among the Reminiscences on Sri Bhagavan-Letters from Sri Ramanasramam ,At the Feet of Bhagavan are the ones I treasure most.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3431 on: September 25, 2013, 07:13:27 PM »
D: How long will it take before Self-Realisation?
Sri Bhagwan : First know what Self means and also what Realisation means.
D:  The mind must realise in the Heart.
Sri Bhagwan : Be it so. What is the mind?
D: Mind, Heart are all avatars of Perumal (Vaisnavite term for incarnate God).
Sri Bhagwan : If so no need to worry ourselves.
D: On this basis how can we realise?
Sri Bhagwan : Surrender the mind to Perumal (God). His avatara cannot remain independent of Him. Render unto Him what is His and be happy.
D: How to do so?
Sri Bhagwan : How is the mind known to us ? Owing to its activities, namely, thoughts. Whatever thoughts arise remember they are all modes of Perumal and they cannot be otherwise, this is enough; this is the surrender of the mind. Can anything exist independent of Perumal? All is Perumal alone. He acts through all. Why worry ourselves?
Talk—600

Pranam,
  Anil




Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3432 on: September 25, 2013, 07:25:27 PM »
Dear Anil,

It is nice to see how Sri Bhagavan tackles the problems of each devotee.  In one conversation, He has said that Mind is
Thayar (Mother Lakshmi) and seek her blessings to make the mind quiescent. 

Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3433 on: September 25, 2013, 09:37:43 PM »
Talk......600

Dear sir,

People who has 100% surrender can take that everything is being done by Perumal. There is one story... One guru told his deciples God is present in everything. Oneday, the deciple while he was crossing the road he saw a mad elephant was coming.His mahut was shouting, keep away from elephant otherwise it may kill people. But this deciple thinking of his guru's words, oh  god was coming running, and he did not move. The result it pushed him badly. When the deciple narrated to his guru, guru told him, yes of course God is present in elephant, but the same god advised you to keep away. Ultimately it is His grace someone get through all odds and stay untouched by nothing.
They say GURU ARULUM THRU ARULUM VENDUM

Ramanaduli

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3434 on: September 26, 2013, 07:47:48 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Thanks very much, sir. I am aware that there is no limit to Sri Bhagwan’s Grace and Compassion.  Lord Sri Arunachala descended and incarnated as the Sadguru, as part of a Divine Drama, to grace His earnest devotees and to awaken them from the deep slumber of countless lives.

Therefore, I feel that it is not appropriate at all for us, His devotees, to sit in judgement over either His Works or the Works of His great devotees, such as, Sri  Muruganar, Sri Ganapati Muni, Sri Annamalai Swami, Sri Sivaprakasam Pillai, Sri K.  Lakshamana Sarma (WHO), Sri B. V. Narsimha Swami, Sri Viswanatha Swami, Sri Arthur Osborne, Sri David Godman, Sri Munagala S. Venkataramiah, Sri Suri Nagama, Prof. K. Swaminathan, Sri T. M. P. Mahadevan, Sri Davaraja Mudaliar, Sri Graham, Dr. Sarada, and countless number of other devotees who, throughout their lives, worked devotedly, to make Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching accessible to one and all.   

Can we ever hope to repay the debt? No. Never.

Sri A. R. Natarajan: He places us in His constant debt for where do we have the capacity to repay His munificence? He has not only shown the WONDEROUS PATH OF SELF-ATTENTION but is there at every step when we falter, when we lose patience or lose courage. We can at least offer, in humble reverence, at His Altar, flowers of love, of our heart overflowing with gratitude, remembering too always that the best flower we can offer is the following of His Direct Path.”


Pranam,
  Anil