Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756308 times)

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3285 on: August 09, 2013, 04:23:59 PM »
Dear friend, there is no scope for conceptual thinking in the Direct Path. It is adequate if we cling to the consciousness or the feeling ‘I’ uninterruptedly till the very end. Such attention to the feeling ‘I’, which is daily common experience of one and all, is what is meant by the Self-attention. Remember: Attending to first person is equal to committing suicide.

Sri Anil Ji,

The above observation of yours prompts me to present my thoughts here. While yes, it is in a way true and in spirit that

It is adequate if we cling to the consciousness or the feeling ‘I’ uninterruptedly till the very end."

This however i feel is not the real essence. The sadhaka must not forget that the purpose of clinging on to the feeling 'I' or consciousness or the source is to realise the Self alone, and not to carry on this Self attention till an end (there is no end as we know). This must not be forgotten any moment. Once the Self is realised, there is no more necessity for even clinging or any further effort or exertion.

Yes, on one hand there is a possibility that once even we may have a glimpse and so on but on accord of our vasanas or tendencies, we may lose that recognition, hence until there is absolute recognition without an iota of any doubts, there would end all efforts. There will be no more need to do anything. There is no need even to cling on to this consciousness. Upon the realisation of That, there is no possibility of losing it, forgetting it.

Once the Sun is known, there is no need further for another light to know (see) the Sun. The Sun can never be hidden thereafter, even if we may want to try.

The Lakshya or the goal ought not to be forgotten, for we can carry on the enquiry for ever and ever, and even remain untouched untroubled by the world and so on, yet, the realisation of True Self may not have arisen sheerly due to the reason of the sadhaka's forgetfulness of the Lakshya.

The goal is realisation of Self, not even the persistence of the Sadhana.

--
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 04:30:13 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3286 on: August 09, 2013, 05:28:21 PM »
Dear Sri Anil ji,

Here is a quote from Bhagavan from Who am I, 17, what i wished to convey in my post previously:

If one resorts to contemplation of the Self unintermittently, until the Self is gained, that alone would do.

--

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3287 on: August 09, 2013, 06:32:34 PM »
Dear Anil,

Here is an excerpt from Spiritual Instructions - Ch. II

Q: What is the method of practice?

Maharshi: As the Self of a person who tries to attain Self Realization is not different from him, and as there is nothing
other than or superior to him to be attained by him, Self Realization being only the realization of one's own nature,
the seeker of Liberation realizes, without doubts or misconceptions, his real nature, by distinguishing the eternal from
the transient, and never swerves from his natural  state.  This is known as the practice of Knowledge. This is the enquiry
leading to Self Realization.


Arunachala Siva.       
 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3288 on: August 10, 2013, 05:26:21 PM »
Quote from my previous post:
“It is adequate if we cling to the consciousness or the feeling ‘I’ uninterruptedly till the very end."
Quote from Sri Nagaraj:
“If one resorts to contemplation of the Self unintermittently, until the Self is gained, that alone would do.”


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Yes. There is neither beginning  nor end nor the middle from the standpoint of the Absolute Reality. I said that it was adequate if we clung to the consciousness or the feeling ‘I’ uninterruptedly till the very end from the standpoint of the sadhaka. I meant to convey the same as Sri Bhagwan has taught. I have always endeavoured and made a conscious effort to remain true to Sri Bahgwan’s Teaching.

What therefore I meant to convey is as follows:
If one resorts uninterruptedly to Self-remembrance or attention to the mere feeling ‘I’ until one attains Self, that alone will be sufficient. Sri Bhagwan has also used the word ‘chintanai’ or thought in ‘Who am I?’. ‘Remaining firmly in Self-abidance (Atma-nishtha), without giving even the room to the rising of any thought other than the thought of Self (Atma-chintanai) is surrendering oneself to God.’ Sri Sadhu Om, in his comment, on the above nectarine Words of Grace, says that the thought of Self (Atma-chintanai) means only Self-attention. Sri Om says that though Sri Bhagwan uses the word thought (chintanai) to denote Self-attention, it is to be understood that the Self-attention is not a mental activity.  ATTENDING   TO   SELF  IS  NOTHING  BUT  ABIDING  AS  THE  SELF.  IT  IS  NOT  A  MENTAL  ACTIVITY  BUT  OUR  NATURAL  STATE  OF  MERE  EXISTENCE.   

Dear Sri Nagaraj, do you know why I used to word ‘end’ to convey what I wanted to convey?
To convey that if through the aforesaid Self-attention, one is more and more established firmly in Existence-Consciousness, the tendencies or vasanas or predispositions will be destroyed because then there will be no one to attend them.

Therefore, yes, effort is necessary up to the State of Realisation only. Sri Bhagwan has taught that the Self should become SPONTANEOUSLY evident, otherwise happiness will not be complete.  UP  TO  THAT  STATE  OF  SPONTANEITY   THERE  MUST  BE  EFFORT  IN  SOME  FORM  OR  THE  OTHER. This much effort is sine-qua-non to reach the State of effortlessness. 

Moreover, dear Sri Nagaraj, Sri Bahgwan has taught that Final Realisation is brought about automatically by Guru’s Grace which is nothing but the Power of the Self. When all out going tendencies of the mind is dissolved in the repeated experiences of ‘being’, the Self destroys the vestigial or remaining ‘I’-thought so completely that it never rises again. This is the culmination of Enquiry in Realisation.
Tendencies towards the sense objects have been recurring down the ages. Therefore one should not forget the Teaching that   AS  LONG  AS  THERE  ARE  TENDENCIES  TOWARDS  THE  SENS-OBJECTS  IN  THE  MIND,  THE  ENQUIRY  ‘WHO AM I?’  IS  NECESSARY.

However, having said as above, I wish to add that only in the early stages of the Enquiry effort in the form of transferring the thoughts to the thinker is essential. But once the awareness of the ‘I’-consciousness or feeling is firmly established, it is more a process of ‘being’ than doing, of an effortless being rather than an effort to be.

Thanks very much, dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, for your kind response.
Pranam,
  Anil       
   
 




eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3289 on: August 10, 2013, 05:44:28 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. These are the Nectarine Words of Grace. Thanks very much, sir.
I have understood Natural State as the State of egolessness, in which one knows and abides as the Real Self instead of rising as an individual to do or achieve anything. Therefore, to abide as Self eternally as Self instead of rising AGAIN as an individual is truly to remain in one’s Natural State. Sri Bahgwan taught that if one knows what one’s Natural State is, what will remain and shine is only the beginningless, endless and unbroken EXISTENCE-CONSCIOUSNESS-BLISS.

Thanks very much, once again, for responding to my post after a long, long time.
Pranam,
  Anil 

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3290 on: August 10, 2013, 06:13:38 PM »
Dear Sri Anil ji,

thanks for your wonderful response. i am just at a loss to say anything more.

yours in bhagavan,
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3291 on: August 10, 2013, 08:15:20 PM »
Dear Sri Anil ji,

some reflections crossed over as expressed bellow. This is not directly connected or a continuation of previous post but may be in the same connection.

Superior to holding on to the 'I' thought or the 'I' consciousness, is looking at the source of this holding on/clinging on to the 'I' thought or the 'I' consciousness, as Bhagavan says unintermittently.

just expressions!

--
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 08:16:56 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3292 on: August 11, 2013, 03:07:16 PM »
Although this body is lying as a speechless and breathless corpse, undoubtedly I am existing, untouched by this death! My existence is shining clearly and unobstructed! So this perishable body is not ‘I’ I am verily the immortal ‘I’ (Self))!! Of all things, I alone am the Reality! This body is subject to death; but I who transcend the body am eternally living!
An Excerpt from the Death-Experience


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Quote from your previous post :”Superior to holding on to the 'I' thought or the 'I' consciousness, is looking at the source of this holding on/clinging on to the 'I' thought or the 'I' consciousness, as Bhagavan says unintermittently.”

Who will look at what? We are the Self and the Self is that which is self-shining in the form ‘I AM THAT I AM’. Therefore, it is not appropriate to imagine our Source something other than ‘I’ or outside of ourselves, such as this Light or that Sound. Imagining and thinking thus is itself bondage. Self is the Self- Consciousness that transcends light and darkness and therefore cannot be imagined in any form or light of any kind whatever. We are the Existence-Consciousness and therefore there is nothing but ‘We’.  We verily are the Source.
Even ‘diving deep within one’s Source’ , in fact, means nothing but clinging to the ‘I’-consciousness and thereby acquiring greater and more steadfast concentration upon the ‘I’-consciousness only.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, Sri Bhagwan has taught that the Heart is the Centre or the Source from which everything springs. But when a devotee asked whether he could meditate on the right chest in order to meditate on Heart, Sri Bhagwan replied thus:
“The Heart is not physical. Meditation should not be on the right or the left. MEDITATION SHOULD BE ON THE SELF.  Everyone knows  ‘I am’.  Who is this ‘I’? It will be neither within nor without, neither on the right nor on the left. ‘I-am’—that is all. “
Therefore, dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, what I mean to convey is that attention to any such imagined source is nothing but attention to transient, insentient and alien second or third person objects which is certainly other than ‘I’. This introduces the element of duality in a sadhana which fundamentally is subjective and therefore non-dual. So, the practice to be still with the ‘thought of the Self’ or with the remembrance of the feeling or consciousness ‘I’ or in short the ‘Self-attention’, and thereby acquiring greater and greater concentration upon ‘I’ or Existence-Consciousness, will alone take us rapidly to the Source, that is, the Self the Swarupa.

Since we now understand that in either of these two kinds of Enquiry, that is, Who am I? or Whence am I?, the attention of the seeker is focussed on ‘himself’, NOTHING OTHER THAN THE SELF WHICH IS THE TRUE IMPORT OF THE WORD ‘I’ WILL FINALLY BE EXPEREINCED. Therefore, by the Enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan, we drown effortlessly in our own Natural Being, that is the Self, that is, the Source which ever shines as ‘I am that I am’.
Moreover, as I have understood Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching, it is not even necessary to name before-hand the feeling ‘I’ either as ego or as Self. There are no two persons in us, the ego and the Self. This is why Sri Bhagwan has taught that we should not give room to an imaginary dual feeling that one ‘I’ is seeking another ‘I’ by differentiating ego and Self as ‘lower self’ and ‘higher Self’.
“Are there two selves, one to be an object known by the other? For, the true experience of all is ‘I am one!”

Besides, we will do well to remember Sri Bhagwan’s Words of Grace that if the Enquiry ‘Who am I?’ were a mere mental questioning, it would not be of much value.  THE  VERY  PURPOSE  OF  SELF-ENQUIRY  IS  TO  FOCUS  THE  ENTIRE  MIND  AT  ITS  SOURCE.  It is not therefore at all a case of one ‘I’ searching for another ‘I’. 

Hence, the Source of everything is the Self and merging our minds in the Self through Self-enquiry,  AND  KEEP  IT  STEADILY  POISED  IN  PURE  SELF-AWARENESS  is the only thing Sri Bhagwan asks us to do.

 
Thanks very much, dear Sri Nagaraj Ji.
Pranam,
  Anil     

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 04:31:13 PM by Ravi.N »

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3294 on: August 11, 2013, 04:52:32 PM »
Dear Sri Anil Ji,

Thanks for your response. I would like to share my observations below:

Although this body is lying as a speechless and breathless corpse, undoubtedly I am existing, untouched by this death! My existence is shining clearly and unobstructed! So this perishable body is not ‘I’ I am verily the immortal ‘I’ (Self))!! Of all things, I alone am the Reality! This body is subject to death; but I who transcend the body am eternally living!
An Excerpt from the Death-Experience

Who will look at what? We are the Self and the Self is that which is self-shining in the form ‘I AM THAT I AM’. Therefore, it is not appropriate to imagine our Source something other than ‘I’ or outside of ourselves, such as this Light or that Sound. Imagining and thinking thus is itself bondage. Self is the Self- Consciousness that transcends light and darkness and therefore cannot be imagined in any form or light of any kind whatever. We are the Existence-Consciousness and therefore there is nothing but ‘We’.  We verily are the Source.

Dear Sri Anil ji,

I would like to bring to our contemplation and observation, as to where was this Self Attention, holding on to 'I' in deep sleep. As we know deep sleep is absolutely devoid of anything.

Therefore, Dear Sri Anil, what is just present in the waking state is not the end in all. Therefore, This feeling of 'I' consciousness that we hold on to during the waking state is nothing but the arisen mind, it is therefore of our best interest to not conclude that that this feeling of 'I' consciousness shines in the form of 'I AM THE I AM'

As Bhagavan has said that waking state is merely a longer dream state, therefore, the 'I' that is felt here ought not to be concluded as the end all. Therefore the source of this ought to be looked at at all times, and not holding at this feeling of 'I' conscioousness, but its source.

Looking at the source of 'I' consciousnessm  --> looking infers to put attention on the source of this 'I' feeling rather putting the attention on this 'I' feeling. This i am able to clearly conclude is not an imagination, but rather is very clear is what i have understood from the teachings of Bhagavan.

On one hand assuming holding on this 'I' feeling as observed by you, this holding on to 'I' consciousness has to continue even in deep sleep. Does it continue? If it does, then this discernment is appropriate and on line with the teachings of Bhagavan, as i humbly feel.

A devotte asked Bhagavan in Day by Day:

“They say that jivanmuktas are always having brahmakara vritti. Would they be having it during sleep? If they have it, then who is it that sleeps in their case?”

Answer: “Of course, the jivanmuktas are having brahmakara vritti always, even during sleep. The real answer to the last question and the whole set of questions is that the jnani has neither the waking, dreaming, or sleeping avasthas, but only the turiya state. It is the jnani that sleeps. But he sleeps without sleeping or is awake while sleeping.”


Therefore, This holding on to the 'I' feeling is merely holding on fast on the 'ego' it is not the pure Self and it would be incorrect to assume this feeling of 'I' consciousness as shining as 'I AM THE I AM'

These are all the modifications of mind in the waking state. It is, therefore, prudent i humbly assume to put all attention on the source of this feeling of 'I' consciousness, or we can even say the throb of 'I' - ness.

Having got this clear knowledge of 'I' feeling which we are able to hold on to, is as Bhagavan said, is Brahmakara Vritti.

The yogis call it Kundalini Sakti. It is the same as vritti 1 of the form of God (Bhagavatakara vritti) of the bhaktas and vritti of the form of Brahman (Brahmakara vritti) of the jnanis. It must be preliminary to Realisation. (Talks)

The Brahma akara vritti helps to turn the mind away from other thoughts. (Talks)

i humbly felt, this 'I' feeling is still an arisen state of self, termed as mind or ego, which by holding on to with great zeal is arresting of arising mind but is not to be confused to be the only thing to be done. But diverting our complete attention to the source of this feeling 'I' is what, i have humbly understood from the wonderful teachings on Bhagavan.

I would like to conclude here again by bringing our focus on deep sleep, this feeling of 'I' is not found in deep sleep to hold on to. Who is it that is striving to hold on to this feeling of the 'I' consciousness. That source is what we ought to put our attention on and not this feeling of 'I' consciousness.

Which as i expressed in my previous posts, would also mean that we would go on for ever merely holding on to this 'I' feeling ignoring the source of this feeling. Therefore Dear Sri Anil ji, i am still convinced to stick to the observation that

Superior to holding on to the 'I' thought or the 'I' consciousness, is looking at the source of this holding on/clinging on to the 'I'

Thanks so much for the wonderful opportunity.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3295 on: August 11, 2013, 04:55:43 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

M: "When one sees God does one see Him with these eyes?"
MASTER: "God cannot be seen with these physical eyes. In the course of spiritual discipline one gets a 'love body', endowed with 'love eyes', 'love ears', and so on. One sees God with those 'love eyes'. One hears the voice of God with those 'love ears'. One even gets a sexual organ made of love."
At these words M. burst out laughing.
The Master continued, unannoyed, "With this 'love body' the soul communes with God."
M. again became serious.
Seeing God everywhere
MASTER: "But this is not possible without intense love of God. One sees nothing but God everywhere when one loves Him with great intensity. It is like a person with jaundice, who sees everything yellow. Then one feels, 'I am verily He'.
"A drunkard, deeply intoxicated, says, 'Verily I am Kali!' The gopis, intoxicated with love, exclaimed, 'Verily I am Krishna!'
"One who thinks of God, day and night, beholds Him everywhere. It is like a man's seeing flames on all sides after he has gazed fixedly at one flame for some time."
"But that isn't the real flame", flashed through M.'s mind.
Sri Ramakrishna, who could read a man's inmost thought, said: "One doesn't lose consciousness by thinking of Him who is all Spirit, all Consciousness. Shivanath once
remarked that too much thinking about God confounds the brain. Thereupon I said to him, 'How can one become unconscious by thinking of Consciousness?' "
M: "Yes, sir, I realize that. It isn't like thinking of an unreal object. How can a man lose his intelligence if he always fixes his mind on Him whose very nature is eternal Intelligence?"
MASTER (with pleasure): "It is through God's grace that you understand that. The doubts of the mind will not disappear without His grace. Doubts do not disappear without Selfrealization.
"But one need not fear anything if one has received the grace of God. It is rather easy for a child to stumble if he holds his father's hand; but there can be no such fear if the father holds the child's hand. A man does not have to suffer any more if God, in His grace, removes his doubts and reveals Himself to him. But this grace descends upon him only after he has prayed to God with intense yearning of heart and practised spiritual discipline.The mother feels compassion for her child when she sees him running about breathlessly. She has been hiding herself; now she appears before the child."
"But why should God make us run about?" thought M
Immediately Sri Ramakrishna said: "It is His will that we should run about a little. Then it is great fun. God has created the world in play, as it were. This is called Mahamaya, the Great Illusion. Therefore one must take refuge in the Divine Mother, the Cosmic Power Itself. It is She who has bound us with the shackles of illusion. The realization of God is possible only when those shackles are severed."
Worship of the Divine Mother
The Master continued: "One must propitiate the Divine Mother, the Primal Energy, in order to obtain God's grace. God Himself is Mahamaya, who deludes the world with Her illusion and conjures up the magic of creation, preservation, and destruction. She has spread this veil of ignorance before our eyes. We can go into the inner chamber only when She lets us pass through the door. Living outside, we see only outer objects, but not that Eternal Being, Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute.

In Atma Vidya Keertanam Sri Bhagavan says exactly the same thing :
"Arulum venume; Anbu-punume; Inbu tonume”.
"Grace is invoked,Love will encompass and Bliss will manifest"

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3296 on: August 11, 2013, 05:23:49 PM »
Dear Sri Anil ji,

Thanks for the opportunity. These exchanges provide food for right and uplifting contemplation. i just would like to update you that i will not be available for few days, therefore may not be able to pursue this enlightening contemplative exchanges. i however would be able to just read via mobile, if providence permits.

Thanks so much
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3297 on: August 12, 2013, 12:01:51 PM »
D. Then when you say ‘Know thyself’ you want me to know this ego-self?
Sri Bhagwan: But the moment the ego-self tries to know itself, it changes its character; it begins to partake less and less of the jada, in which it is absorbed, and more and more of the Consciousness of the Self, the Atman.
D. Then whom do you address when you say ‘knw thyself’?
Sri Bhagwan: To whatever you are; to you is given the suggestion ‘know thyself’, The ego-self, when it feels the necessity to know its own origin or impelled to rise above itself, takes the suggestion and goes deeper and there discovers the True Source and reality of itself. So the ego-self beginning to know itself ends in perceiving its Self.
Source: Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with maharshi


Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Quote from your post:
“Therefore, This feeling of 'I' consciousness that we hold on to during the waking state is nothing but the arisen mind, it is therefore of our best interest to not conclude that that this feeling of 'I' consciousness shines in the form of 'I AM THE I AM'.”

My Goodness! No where I have said or written that ego shines in the form of ‘I AM THAT I AM’. I feel that this is a gross misinterpretation of what I wished to convey.  What I have meant to convey is what  I have done myself: The Real Self is Infinite ‘I’.  That ‘I’ is perfection.  It is eternal. It has no origin and no end. The other ‘I’ is born and also dies. It is impermanent.  See to whom the changing thoughts belong. They, of course, belong to the ‘I’-thought. Sri Bhagwan says that when one holds the ‘I’ thought, they (thoughts) subside. Track back the Source of the ‘I’-thought. The Self alone will remain. This is the Teaching. Now what I mean to say is this that if one asks ‘Who am I? or Whence am I?’, holds the ‘I’-thought and traces it back to the Source, one drowns effortlessly in one’s own NATURAL  STATE  OR BEING  OR THE SELF WHICH EVER SHINES AS ‘I AM THAT I AM’. No where I have ever said that the ego shines as the Self or ‘I am that I am’.     

Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, we will do well here if we remember that Sri Bhagwan has unambiguously taught that the Self-enquiry by following the CLUE of aham-vritti or the ego is just like the dog tracing his master by his scent. The master’s scent is an infallible clue for the animal. TO THAT SCENT THE DOG HOLDS ON UNDISTRACTEDLY WHILE SEARCHING FOR HIM, AND FINALLY SUCCEEDS IN TRACING HIM. So also, Sri Bahgwan has revealed that in our investigation into the source of the aham-vritti, we take the consciousness aspect of the ego (‘I’-consciousness or feeling) and tracing back the Source holding the scent of the Consciousness, which culminates in Realisation of Pure Consciousness of the Self.  What happens on the way?
ONE  WHO  SEEKS  ‘WHO  AM  I?  OR  WHENCE  AM  I?’,  FOLLWING  THE  EGO  THE  FORM  OF  WHICH  IS  ‘I  AM  SO  AND  SO’,  AND  WHILE  DOING  SO ,  THE  ADJUNCT  ‘SO  AND  SO’  DIES  ON  THE  WAY  HAVING  NO  REAL  EXISTENCE  OF  ITS  OWN,  ONE  THUS  DROWNS  EFFORTLESSLY  IN   HIS  OWN  NATURAL  BEING,  IS  ESTABLISHED  IN  THE  SELF  OR  THE  SWARUPA,  AND  SHINES  AS  ‘I  AM  THAT  I  AM’.

  Quote from, your post:
“On one hand assuming holding on this 'I' feeling as observed by you, this holding on to 'I' consciousness has to continue even in deep sleep. Does it continue? If it does, then this discernment is appropriate and on line with the teachings of Bhagavan, as i humbly feel.”

Yes. But Sri Bhagwan has taught that the Realisation or the final Natural State has to be obtained CONSCIOUSLY IN THE JAGRAT, THAT IS, IN THE WAKING STATE.  However, Sri Bhagwan has taught that if we slip into sleep while meditating, the meditation will go on even during and after the sleep. I have no doubt that that if I slip into sleep with the thought of the Self (Atma Chintanai, or the Self-attention), I awake with the thought of the Self, implying that meditation continued thus in sleep also. Sleep is a mere thought which must be got rid of.
Sri Bhagwan: “Waking and sleeping are mere pictures on the screen of the native, thought-free state. Let them pass unnoticed.” 
Sleep is said to be the first obstacle for the sadhakas. Once sleep overtakes, one can do nothing in that state. So, one should engage in Enquiry while one is awake and try to keep away the thoughts. Sri Bhagwan has enlightened us that SO LONG AS THERE ARE THOUGHTS OF ACTIVITY THERE WILL ALSO BE SLEEP. THOUGHTS AND SLEEP ARE COUNTERPARTS OF ONE AND THE SAME THING.

Quote from your post:
“The Brahma akara vritti helps to turn the mind away from other thoughts. (Talks)”
Yes. Thanks very much for reminding.

Quote from your post:
“Which as i expressed in my previous posts, would also mean that we would go on for ever merely holding on to this 'I' feeling ignoring the source of this feeling. Therefore Dear Sri Anil ji, i am still convinced to stick to the observation that

Superior to holding on to the 'I' thought or the 'I' consciousness, is looking at the source of this holding on/clinging on to the 'I'.”

Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, Yes. Certainly. Self alone is the Jnana Guru for everyone. Nevertheless, the implication of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching is obvious:

D. I am aware of the ‘I’. Yet my troubles are not ended.
Sri Bhagwan: This ‘I’-thought is not pure. It is contaminated with the association of body and senses. See to whom the trouble is. It is to the ‘I’-thought. Hold it. Then the other thoughts vanish.
D. Yes. How to do it? That is the whole trouble.
Sri Bhagwan: THINK  “I, “I”,” I”,  AND  HOLLD  TO  THAT  ONE  THOUGHT  TO  THE  EXCLUSION  OF  ALL  OTHERS.
Besides, dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, effort is necessary. Sri Bhagwan has taught that just as water is got by boring a well, so also one realises the Self by investigation. WE  ARE  HAZILY  AWARE  OF  THE  SELF.  AS  WE  SEE  MOISTURE  ON  THE  SURFACE,  DIG  DEEPER  AND  OBTAIN  THE  WATER,  LIKEWISE   WE  MUST  PURSUE  THE  HAZY  AWARENESS  OF  THE  SELF,  TRACE  IT  TO  SOURCE  AND  REALISE  THE  SELF.  When the effort ceases, the self shines forth.

Thanks very much, dear Sri Nagaraj Ji.
Pranam,
  Anil

Note: Dear devotees, as I informed you earlier, I have been deputed and thus engaged in the flood control activities of the Water Resources Department of the Govt. of Bihar.  This job is of emergency nature and is, full of intense and hectic activities . Therefore, I do not know when I will get time to read your posts and respond appropriately if I so wished.  However, something from within still keeps me prompting to write and respond to your understanding here in this forum, and therefore, I shall keep attending to the forum and continue to contribute in this thread as well, of course, Sri Bhagwan willing. Anil   

 






 




Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3298 on: August 12, 2013, 01:10:08 PM »
Dear Sri Anil ji,

I would like to apoligise if there has been a misrepresentation of wt you have conveyed.

I just had to convey just one point which i hv underlined below from your post -

 Sri Bhagwan: THINK  “I, “I”,” I”,  AND  HOLLD  TO  THAT  ONE  THOUGHT  TO  THE  EXCLUSION  OF  ALL  OTHERS.Besides, dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, effort is necessary. Sri Bhagwan has taught that just as water is got by boring a well, so also one realises the Self by investigation. WE  ARE  HAZILY  AWARE  OF  THE  SELF.  AS  WE  SEE  MOISTURE  ON  THE  SURFACE,  DIG  DEEPER  AND  OBTAIN  THE  WATER,  LIKEWISE   WE  MUST  PURSUE  THE  HAZY  AWARENESS  OF  THE  SELF,  TRACE  IT  TO  SOURCE  AND  REALISE  THE  SELF.  When the effort ceases, the self shines forth. 

Thanks so much dearbsri anil ji.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #3299 on: August 12, 2013, 04:03:00 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,


There is no need for you to apologise for I am not offended in the least. We all are devotees of Sri Bhagwan and we love Him WHO is now our Inner Self and Inner Guide.  We adore Him like nothing else in the three worlds. Besides, we all love the Self and therefore we all are in love with each other here too. Are we not? 

Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, I have always adored you, I adore your sincerity, knowledge and understanding and earnestness as a seeker and a devotee. Sri Bhagwan has taught us, “THAT WHICH IS, IS MOUNA. ” And Mouna is That which transcends speech and thought.  Sri Bhagwan has taught that the State in which the thought ‘I’ (the ego) does not rise in the least , alone is the Self the Swarupa which is Silence.  HENCE,  EXPEREINCE  OF  SILENCE  ALONE  IS  THE  REAL  AND  PERFECT  KNOWLEDGE.

Therefore, it follows from the above that so long as we are trying to express and communicate our understanding and experience through words and language, we will have to encounter such difficulties.  For instance, I and you may have been trying to communicate to each other and share the same intuition and understanding, but my use of words and language might have caused slight differences of opinion leading to the supposed and apparent misinterpretation.  I know that Sri Nagaraj Ji means always goodwill and love for everyone who so ever he may be. How can it be otherwise? After all, we all have gathered at the Lotus Feet of the Sadguru.


Thanks very much, dear Sri Nagaraj Ji.
Pranam,
  Anil