Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 758579 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2775 on: January 03, 2013, 01:37:12 PM »
Quote:
“Anil, Grace is always operating, there is no possibility of grace not operating ... whether or not that question arises  LOL! Grace is ever there... plz do not think that just coz a question arose, it vanishes off. Infact that question itself shows there is abundance of Grace... when God communicates, he communicates through these questions ... and fortunate is a person who can question ! IT shows grace.

The point is, as you said : Sadhana's success depends upon you "Conscious Effort". But Whether or not one puts in effort depends upon one's Mumukshatvam or Desire for Liberation. Isnt this so ? One would put in more effort if one has more desire for liberation. If one has no desire for liberation, even if he understands Self enquiry very well [thanks to his wonderful intellect], he may not practise it really.
is this not so ?”

Dear Sri Udai,


Yes. Grace is ever there, always operating, and asking EARNEST questions is certainly due to Guru’s or God’s Grace. So, asking EARMEST questions is the manifestation of Grace but asking questions for the sake of questioning, in my view, is certainly not Its manifestation.

Grace is ever there, always operating, but even then only infinitesimal number of men and women take to practice Self-enquiry. Everybody does not and cannot. Why so?

Because, as  Sri Bhagwan said, and as I have understood, our remembrance is the forerunner of Grace. That is the response, that is the stimulus, that is the Self and that is the Grace. Grace is both the beginning and the end. INTROVERSION IS DUE TO GRACE. PERSEVERANCE IS GRACE. REALISATION IS GRACE.
 Therefore, dear friend, yes, whether or not one puts in effort depends upon one's Mumukshatvam or Desire for Liberation, but that very desire for liberation is the sign of  manifestation of abundance of Grace.

Sri Bhagwan: Grace is always there. “Dispassion cannot be acquired, nor realisation of the Truth, nor inherence in the Self, in the absence of Guru’s Grace.
However, having said this, I wish to say that I agree with you that though Grace is always there, practice is necessary, for it is like training a rougish bull confined to his stall by tempting with luscious grass and preventing him from straying. THEREFORE, CONSCIOUS EFFORT ON THE PART OF THE SADHAK IS SINE-QUA-NON. And if conscious effort is there along with Grace, EFFORT AND GRACE ACT AND REACT UPON EACH OTHER. If that happens, Sri Bhagwan has assured that Realisation is sure to happen—sooner or later. Moreover, I feel that conscious effort enables an earnest sadhak to be receptive to Grace more and more, that is, a sadhak experiences His Grace more and that spurs him on in his sadhana, and this we can say is the sure sign of the manifestation of His Grace.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil




Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2776 on: January 03, 2013, 01:55:10 PM »
S.S. Cohen's Reflections on Talks:

Chapter Two

Life and Death and Rebirth:

News of someone's death was brought to the Master. He remarked: 'Good. The dead indeed are happy. They have got rid
of the troublesome overgrowth, the body. The dead man does not grieve. The survivors grieve for him. Do men fear sleep?
On the contrary they court it and on waking up they remark that they have had a happy sleep. Yet sleep is nothing but
temporary death and death is long sleep.
 
                              - Talk No. 62.

Bhagavan points out the glaring contrast in our behavior in the twin states of death and sleep, which are the same except
in matter of duration. Of that too, we cannot be very sure. We hate death, but run with might and main after sleep, so much
so that if we remain sleepless for a few nights,  we seek medical help and start swallowing sleeping tablets, if not also resort
to drastic morphia injections.

The Master perceives the body as a troublesome overgrowth!  Because it is superimposed on him - the pure Being.
The Videha is a Mukta. sometimes called Videha Mukkta.

*****

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2777 on: January 03, 2013, 02:22:50 PM »
Dear Sri Udai,

What you say may be true. I do not wish to comment upon them.  But dear friend, in my own case, considering the nature of my job, environment in which I lived where hardly anyone was aware of Sri Bhagwan and the Self-enquiry He taught, nobody in and around me doing any sadhana, nor I myself had been inclined to tread any spiritual path, oh, simply given all these, I stood no chance! But suddenly I experienced Grace, and strong urge to know my real Self. Therefore, my coming to Sri Bhagwan, strong urge to know the Self, experiencing His Grace, taking to reading His books, starting to visit Sri Ramanasrama, etc., etc., I feel,  all happened simultaneously.  That is more than one reason why I keep chanting that Grace is everything, beginning, middle and the end! Having said this, I ask from you, where was my conscious effort before 2005? If there is no such thing as experience and manifestation of Grace, where from came to me the conscious effort and desire for liberation? I had not even thought in my dream that one day I would develop love and devotion for  a Sadguru who lived in faraway in a remote place called Tiruvannamalai. I had not even ever heard of Sri Arunachala. How would you explain away all these, dear friend Sri Udai? I myself do not know, nor do I crave to know. I only wish to remain steadfast in my sadhana, always loving Him and praying for His Grace, and remaining content with what I have become now. 

Pranam,
  Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2778 on: January 03, 2013, 02:55:54 PM »
Dear Sri Udai,

May be. I do not know who I was in my previous birth.

But why did I not take to any conscious effort before coming to Sri Bhagwan? I took to it with strong urge after coming to Him. This I know with certainty. May be reading His books helped in my  enquiry. Even this I cannot say with certainty, whether it was reading or His Grace.
That is why I say Grace and effort act and react upon each other.

I never said that one should not read the sacred Scripture if one feels so. I only said what Sri Bhagwan said. That it is not essential to read the Scripture for the Self-realisation. I sometimes also said that I did not myself feel any need to do so now that I have come to Sri Bhagwan.  I also said that the Gita was the only Scripture I read before. The purpose of Scripture is to indicate to the Reality. If one becomes aware of that Reality intellectually, and is convinced, purpose of the Scripture is thus served. Nothing more I ever said, nothing more I will ever say with regard to the Scripture.   

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2779 on: January 03, 2013, 03:25:24 PM »
Dear Sri Udai,

Yes, Bhagwan’s Works and Utterances are Scriptures. There is no doubt whatever about that.  But you have missed one important point that Sri Bhagwan is also my Sadguru, a living Guru—Inner as well as Outer at the same time. There is also no doubt that whatever.

I said that the purpose of the Scripture is to indicate to the Reality and NOT to understand the Reality, FOR THAT IS BEYOND INTELLECTUAL UNDERSTANDING. If that is achieved, the purpose of the Scripture is served. This is exactly what Sri Bhagwan Himself said on many occasions.
Pranam,
 Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2780 on: January 03, 2013, 04:03:50 PM »
D. One of the stanzas says that the Scriptures so scrupulously studied in the earlier stages are ultimately of no use. At what stage do they become useless?
Sri Bhagwan:
“When their essence is realised. The scriptures are useful to INDICATE  the existence of the Higher Power (the Self) and the way to  gain it. Their essence is that much only. When that is assimilated the rest is useless. BUT THEY ARE VOULUMINOUS, ADAPTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SEEKER.”

“A disciple can never revert to the world after he has once fallen into the field of the Guru’s gracious look as surely as the prey in the tiger’s jaws cannot escape.”

Anil

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2781 on: January 03, 2013, 05:04:13 PM »

Dear Anil

"There is only the Self. Thoughts can function only if there are objects. But there are no objects.
The habit makes us believe that it is difficult to cease thinking. If the error is found out, one would not be fool enough to exert oneself unnecessarily by way of thinking "  Talks 398.

This has really got through to me. No objects. Just that.

And we know when our minds are (unnecessarily/foolishly/harmfully) trying to create them.

We may be able to  "step back" and help those  creating them perhaps more obviously than ourselves - but only when we are  secure in that Reality, when we continue to know there are still no objects.

Thank you.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2782 on: January 03, 2013, 05:29:19 PM »
One who is so obviously attached should not teach lesson of non-attachment to others.  Everybody is doing what he feels is the most appropriate thing to do and where the Grace is taking him to. As for me, I am not attached with anything other than the Guru and His Teaching. Nothing whatever other than this attachment matters for me.

Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2783 on: January 03, 2013, 05:32:17 PM »
Dear Devotees,

You must be aware of The Famous Sage, Sri Kabir’s famous Verse:

"पोथी पढ़ पढ़ जग मुआ पंडित भया न कोय।
ढाई आखर प्रेम का पढ़े सो पंडित होय।।"

"Pothi Padh Padh Kar Jag Mua, Pandit Bhayo Na Koye
Dhai Aakhar Prem Ke, Jo Padhe so Pandit Hoye."

Translation

"Reading Books and Scriptures everyone died, no one became Pandit.
Two and Half Words of Love, who ever reads, Pandit he becomes."



Dear devotees, if love and devotion in the heart are missing, what is the use of becoming a Potha-pundit? If Love and devotion are surging in the heart, why he should die reading pothas?  This is the meaning of the above Verse as I understand it.

If one thinks that love and devotion will be born by reading pothas, I do not have anything to say to such a one.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2784 on: January 03, 2013, 05:51:40 PM »
YES, YOU HAVE GOT IT!  YOU ALONE HAVE GOT IT !
YOU ARE A JNANI, BUT YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR JNANA. IF OTHERS ARE INTERESTED IN YOU JNANA , PLEASE SHARE WITH THEM AND BESTOW YOUR JNANA ON THEM, BY ALL MEANS. I DO NOT HAVE LEAST PROBLEM WITH THAT. BUT SURELY YOU SPARE ME MUST!
THANKS IN ADVANCE TO SPARE THIS FOOL!
Pranam,
Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2785 on: January 03, 2013, 06:17:14 PM »
Quote:
“I did not claim this. As I said whetehr or not you want to clarify is your choice. I will never again write in this thread. May you have your own will. ITs your thread ... have a nice time.”

YES. That will be the greatest favour, you can do to me.  And kindly remember your promise. I am afraid you are soon going to forget it.

Pranam,
 Anil


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2786 on: January 05, 2013, 04:38:25 PM »
Quote:
“So unless one is 24 7 in Self inquiry,
scriptures and vedanta are like exceptional aids.
if i think Scriptures are not useful and do not study ,,, it means i have not tried everything.
may be grace flows via yoga vasishtam for someone ... atleast for me it did.
so keep studying, keep doing inquiry ... dont have a lower opinion abt anything.
when one is in self inquiry 24 7, study of scriptures drops off of itself.”


:Unless you discover that unattachment within, you cannot recognize an unattached person even if you meet one.
Its not that one is allowed to be attached to Guru and his teachings and nothing else ... One simply sees through all attachments.”

“I do not judge people as "attached person" --- "unattached person" ... I have no attachments and yet I like to write, I like to explain and praise the saints ! He who has got it, has GOT IT. He who didnt will soon get it.”



“”पोथी पढ़ पढ़ जग मुआ पंडित भया न कोय।
ढाई आखर प्रेम का पढ़े सो पंडित होय।।"

From Which book have you got this Anil ?  ...
LOL!

and plz dont tell me its from the internet and not a book!!”

“and just few mins back you said you read Bhagavan's teachings !!??
but that is not pothi ? and you are padh padh it ... you keep reading it again and again too!!
why dont you simply read "Prem" ... dhaii akshar ?and remain satisfied ?
what purpose does Ramana's teaching serve?”

“Now plz dont tell me that Reading Ramana's work is an exception.”

you said you read "Ramana's works"
and then again you write "One cannot become pandit by reading "
and then again you picked this line "One cannot become pundit..." from a book!!

you say "one who is So Obviously attached ... etc" ... and then agian you come back and say "You Alone have got it".

“If you wish to clarify on this, you may sir.
If you do not wish to clarify this ... has your Self inquiry helped you here sir?
Please ..”





Dear Devotees,

I never hold anything personal against anybody not even against Sri Udai. Nurturing grievance has never been my nature. If I am upset over something, it lasts only as long as I remain forgetful of my true nature. As soon as I remember ‘who I am’, as Sri Bhagwan taught, such temporary superimpositions go away of all their own accord.

Having said as above, I wish to say that time and again I have been saying that I never, never, at any cost, want to get drawn into the vortex of endless argument and counter argument in spiritual matter. If someone says something, and if I have some doubt, I may ask a few questions but do not start arguing with him against his views.

Now somebody enters in discussion with me on seemingly some innocent topic under discussion, and soon these seemingly innocuous discussions invariably are forcibly dragged into endless discussion on scriptures, and the necessity of study of them till Self-realisation. Even Guru’s Teaching in this regard is not heeded and is often distorted.

This has been the norm rather than accident or coincidence.
Yes, Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching is scriptural and His Words and Utterances are the Scripture. But besides, this, He is Also the Sadguru for at least most of us here. Is He not? That is why most of us have joined this Forum.  Therefore, if someone, remains oblivious of this simple fact, despite reminding again and again says, ‘Now plz don’t tell me that reading Raman’s work is an exception!”

 YES, I WISH TO SAY, AND NOT IN ANY AMBIGUOUS TERMS, THAT READING BHAGWAN SRI RAMANA’S
 WORKS IS NOT ONLY AN EXCEPTION, AT LEAST FOR ME, AND I DEEPLY UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO NEED FOR ME TO READ ANYTHING OTHER. And certainly that does not mean that I have low opinion of our other sacred scriptures, for that is not true at all. But invariably this is what is exactly said when one is reluctant to discuss in detail sacred lore all this causes anguish.

Dear devotees,   the famous cryptic verse of Sri Kabir Das, ”पोथी पढ़ पढ़ जग मुआ पंडित भया न कोय।ढाई आखर प्रेम का पढ़े सो पंडित होय।।" is a often repeated and quoted as a proverb in this part of the country and I know and understand it from my childhood itself. Therefore, to keep coming to this verse and trying to show that I say, on the one hand that by reading books and scriptures one does not become a pundit, and on the other I am quoting the same verse from a book, is too much of an argument for me to digest. Here is what has been said, besides the above quotes:
“Now when Anil ji says by reading books one does not become wise and gets that statement out of a book, what else do you expect as a reaction ? Was that a personal statement ? It was just saying that even this statement you picked is from a book ... Now that was about saying "no need to read a book" by quoting a book!! “


Dear devotes, LASTLY BUT NOT LIGHTLY, I wish to say, what kind of an exchange of ideas is all this in which others’ ideas are invariably laughed and jeered at and one’s own views are held correct despite clear loop holes, claim of them being logical notwithstanding?

Sri Ravi very rightly observed:

Sri Ravi :
“I do not see any exchange of idea here but only sarcasm.This is best avoided and it is best to avoid LOL!Whether you are laughing softly or loudly do not add any value to your arguement.
I would simply advise that we continue to share our ideas and if we find that they are not appreciated by the other person,just drop it,instead of pursuing further and rubbing it in.”



AND THEN A VICIOUS AND MALACIUOS CAMPAIGN  TO  MALIGN for the acceptance of a partisan view-point! I do not understand all this!

Dear devotees, I started this thread to keep myself abiding at His Lotus Feet, and keep discussing His Teaching, Words and Utterances till they are assimilated and become natural, and not to discuss Vedanta, or for that matter any other scriptures in this thread. I have religiously tried to keep the purity of this thread intact. Discussion on genuine doubts or confusion over this great Teaching is a different matter, for that is what for this thread is all about.

Therefore, if I am not allowed to keep Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching over and above everything else in general and the purity of this thread intact in particular, IN A FORUM DEVOTED TO HIS LIFE AND TEACHING, I would not hesitate and leave this thread sooner than later. I SEEK ONLY SEEK THIS MUCH SPACE FOR MYSELF FOR PREVENTING THE MIND FROM STRAYING. I reiterate once again before I close this post that I do not nurture grievance against anybody, since I love you all.


Thanks very much,
  Pranam,
   Anil




nonduel

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2787 on: January 06, 2013, 01:28:38 AM »
Pranams

The mind is a scoundrel, it creates situations of conflict and most importantly it FEEDS on it.

Please understand that Vichara isn't a "doing" but a "Being".
I repeat...it isn't a "DOING" but a "BEING".

To BE, there is no need to acquire anything. Everyone is conscious of being without having to "do" something to be. In fact you cannot escape this beingness!

You can certainly forget about it by searching everywhere, but realize at the same time, that you are only keeping yourself away from it.

Heated discussions like this thread are a good example. But it can also be a gift if one stops and tries to learn from it. Grace flows from one to another in many differents ways, always surging from the one un-divided SELF.

My Love to all of you. I will leave again for a while...

Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2788 on: January 06, 2013, 05:17:17 AM »
Friends,
As long as there is a 'doer' there is doing-be it eating,be it sleeping,be it self-enquiry.
If there is no 'doer' ,self-enquiry becomes self-abidance.
I am sure our friend Anil understands it as well as any of us if not better;there is no doubt that he has Sri Bhagavan's grace leading him and as the saying goes-"Where there is a Goldsmith what need is there for a Blacksmith"
I appreciate the wonderful words of our friend nonduel in his post here-at the same time,the 'doing' aspect cannot be wished away-for all sadhana is a sort of doing only,although the 'doing' is of a subtlest kind.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2789 on: January 06, 2013, 06:12:31 AM »
nonduel/friends,

Quote
"The mind is a scoundrel, it creates situations of conflict and most importantly it FEEDS on it"

Very true.This is why sri Ramakrishna says:
"It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases
are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. You
may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up
tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as
you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.'
The 'I' that
feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one. Sweet things cause
acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception".


Again he says:
"It is very good to look on God as the Master
and oneself as His servant. Further, you see, people speak of the waves as belonging to the
Ganges; but no one says that the Ganges belongs to the waves. The feeling, 'I am He', is not
wholesome.
A man who entertains such an idea, while looking on his body as the Self,
causes himself great harm. He cannot go forward in spiritual life; he drags himself down.
He deceives himself as well as others. He cannot understand his own state of mind".

This is not to say that the master does not realize the importance and worthiness of the teachings of Ashtavakra samhita and yoga vasishta which are full of affirmations of the true identity of the Self as the Sole Reality.It is only those who are mature that can pursue it exclusively as a sadhana.One cannot pursue it just because it is LOGICAL and RATIONAL and ONE LIKES it.If we look around today,advaita is a buzz word everywhere and everyone wants to be the Self,as it seems to be the logical and easy thing to do-it seems to absolve oneself from having to assume any responsibility for whatever that happens in one's life or that of others in this world.Just treat everything as a Dream and realize the 'Truth'.This gives a sort of 'Freedom' which is dubious.

Life is to be Lived fully and holistically-and any sort of a premature withdrawal will only serve to prolong the ordeal.The Blossoming and the ripening has to happen in its own time.

Namaskar.