Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756485 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2700 on: December 21, 2012, 09:14:28 AM »
Udai,
If we have to discuss,it has to be an earnest discussion.It should not get down to a juvenile quarrel.I have clearly found a difference in the text of the Tamizh original of Sri Bhagavan(in his own handwriting-so no one has doctored it).I immediately doubted whether Sri Bhagavan has composed the sanskrit version.I understand that it is by Sri Ganapathi muni.With all due respects to him,his translation does not do justice to the original,as he has a traditional background!He has watered it in some measure.
If you are comfortable,we may discuss;otherwise,I will leave you with your belief in sastraic knowledge.
Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2701 on: December 21, 2012, 01:30:11 PM »
udai,
I may have to key in the tamizh words using Google transliteration;will do it when I am relatively free.Meantime,I suggest that you may check with Bhagavan's telungu version of ulladu narpadu,if available.I understand that he wrote a prose version called unnadi nalubadi in telungu.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2702 on: December 21, 2012, 05:47:06 PM »
Quote from Sri Tushnim:
“Whether its Bhagavan or you ... if you say its "angam", it means a limb or a "Part" .
Please dont get angry with me ... I think you should scold Vasishta Ganapati muni ji for such a blatant misinterpretation. "blatant", "clamorous", "vociferous" ... what ever you want ... leave me out of it.
angam means "part or organ or limb" ... what can i do if he says so ?

As for me : Sri Vasishta Ganapati muni ki jai!”

“Why are you calling angam limbs ?
he says its "gross and a blatant " ... to interpret angam as limbs.

“It should be instead interpreted as "Ideas such help forward the quest"
or some such thing.’’




Dear Sri Tushnim,


Why only great Sri Muni? All mahan devotees of Sri Bhagwan ki indeed jai Ho!
Yes, I have great reverence in my hearts for all great devotees of Sri Bhagwan.

Who is misinterpreting Verse 31 of the Sat Darshanam composed by Sri Muni? You have given following translation for the same.

“Diving in Silence by the mind, inquiring about one's root alone is true Self inquiry.
This i am,”
This is not my nature.
These thoughts are the limbs of True inquiry.”

With whatever little knowledge I have, I understand that it is a very unfair and misleading translation. Leave aside original ULLadu Narpadu composed by Sri Bhawan in Tamil. PLEASE TELL ME WHERE WHAT IN THE VERSE 31 OF THE SAT DARSHANAM CAN BE TRANSLEATED AS “THIS I AM, THIS I  AM NOT ARE THOUGHTS WHICH ARE THE TRUE LIMBS OF ENQUIRY”?  THE FIRST TWO LINES OF THE VERSE ITSELF DEFINES WHAT THE REAL QUEST FOR THE SELF IS—“MIND TRROUGH SILENCE IN DEEP PLUNGE ENQUIRES, THAT ALONE IS REAL QUEST FOR THE SELF.’’

Moreover, Sri Kapali Sastri, a very close disciple of Sri Muni, himself translated in his famous book,  ‘Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi’, written during Sri Bhagwan’s Life Time in 1931, as following:

“The mind through calm in deep-plunge-
That alone is real quest for the Self.
‘This I am’, ‘mine is not this’,
Ideas such help forward the quest.”

But I am again cent percent sure that you would not accept this and say that who is Sri Sastri to translate as such because Sri Muni has written ‘SATYAVICHARANGAM’ which according to you should be translated as ‘true limbs of Enquiry’.

I do not wish to say anything now, for you are again sure coming out with another novel argument in which I do not have even least inclination to get drawn.

I am aware what traditional SAT-VICHARANAM  is and I have nothing to say against it and its adherents. But when someone is bent upon proving that it is part and parcel of true enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan, I feel that it is time to call a spade a spade.

Thanks very much.
 Pranam,
  Anil   

   


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2703 on: December 21, 2012, 06:01:36 PM »
Dear anil,

Verse 31 has been translated by Kapali Sastri and later by Prof. K. Swaminthan correctly:

Swaminathan says:

Cease all talk of 'I' and search with inward diving mind whence the thought of 'I' springs up. This is the way of wisdom.
To think instead I am not this but That I am - is helpful in the search but it is not the search itself.

What Muni has translated is: To think insetad, I am not this but That I am - is helpful in the search. This helpful aspect
mentioned by Sri Bhagavan has been rendered as 'limbs of inquriy'. To be helpful search is not limbs of inquiry. Limbs
means 'a part of inquiry,' - angam. Wheres these thoughts I not this but That I am - is only helpful that is they are OUTSIDE
THE INQUIRY AND NOT PARTS OF IT.

E.G., My hand is part of my body, My shirt is helpful to wearing         
 for going to office.

Muni is therefore incorrect,

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2704 on: December 21, 2012, 06:29:14 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

I understand that you alone have true wisdom in this forum. I know I am a fool. I cannot say for others. But please leave me alone with my poor understanding. If I have continued this thread for so long, then that is because it has been a great means for me to keep myself to His Feet and if possible, to get some of my doubts cleared by interacting with someone here like Sri Subramanian Sir or Sri Ravi. There has not been any other purpose. I never intended to educate other members, for I never felt I am competent to do so. That holds good even now.

Therefore, kindly do me a favour, for I am your friend. Am I not? KINDLY LEAVE ME THAT SPACE FOR ME. You can write what you feel in other threads and  in yours. I promise I would never object to anything you write there. You may teach enquiry in whatever way you like. But kindly leave me alone, for I am a fool doing enquiry as exactly thought by my Guru and God, Bhagwan Sri Ramana. I am not a teacher. I think if you do not want me to leave this forum, you would be kind enough to oblige me.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2705 on: December 21, 2012, 06:32:05 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

It supports the inquiry - uru thuNai - in Tamizh. uruthuNai is only helpful. But it is not angam, a step or part of inquiry.     

This I am not this, That I am bhavana is NOT HELPFUL FOR INQUIRY. So I supported anil.

uruthuNai is helpful. e.g. I go to HYD. srkudai is helpful to go around  HYD. But srkudai is not part of me.   

ANGAM - Sri Bhagavan DID NOT MENTION this IN TAMIZH ORIGINAL.  It is Muni's in Sanskrit version.

There is also one such variation in Verse 28 (excluding invocatory verse,) in Sanskrit translation.

Sri Bhagavn  said 'One should dive as if a thing has fallen into water.' He never said 'well'.

Muni says as if the thing has fallen into well - koobam - he says in Sanskrit.


Arunachala Siva.
     

atmavichar100

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2706 on: December 21, 2012, 06:48:46 PM »
Quote
I am leaving this thread here as Anil ji does not want me to write here !

Please let me know if you want me to delete my messages from here as well.

Tushnim

I suggest that you open a separate thread "Self Enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan - My Interpretations / My Musings " and share  what you feel like sharing  quoting Bhagwan's Works ( Upadesa Saram , Ulladhu Naarpadu etc ) and supplementing it with  Annamalai Swamy Teachings  , Adi Shankara , Upanishads , Ribhu Gita , Bhagwad Gita etc  and let those who are interested in getting their doubts cleared / clarified pose questions on the same and have the doubts cleared .  This way you give space to others to be what they want and yet your have your own space in this forum .
By the way no need to delete any of your already posted messages .Let it be as they are . But create your own thread and start writing what you feel is the correct interpretation of Bhagwan's Teachings and where are people making mistakes in understanding him . This will help a lot of people currently in the forum as well as those who join new .
Om Peace .

« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 06:51:31 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2707 on: December 21, 2012, 06:53:48 PM »
udai/Friends,

Here is the ulladu narpadhu verse 29.I have just split the sandhis to make it easier to read and transliterate and translate:

நான் என்று வாயால் நவிலாது உள்ளாழ் மனத்தால்

நான் என்று எங்கு உந்தும் என நாடுதலே ஞான நெறியாம்

அன்றி அன்று இது நான் ஆம் அது என்று உன்னல்

துணையாம் அது விசாரம் ஆமா ?

naan enru vaayaal navilaadhu ullaazh manaththaal
naan enru engu undum ena naaduthaley jnaana neriyaam
anri anru idhu naan aam adhu enru unnal
thunaiyam,adhu vicharam aamaa?

without uttering 'I' by mouth with an inward plunged mind
to enquire whence arise this 'I' alone is jnaana marga
instead to meditate 'not this', 'I am That'
is an aid,Is that Vichara?

Namaskar.

atmavichar100

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2708 on: December 21, 2012, 07:06:34 PM »
I have opened a separate thread for sat-darshanm differences, pls post there.
ill remove some of my posts from here and request you all to repost there if there is anything to discuss.
nagaraj and raviji i have answered in that thread.

Thanks everyone.

Good . Will join there .
Om Peace .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2709 on: December 21, 2012, 07:25:27 PM »
anil,
Your single pointed devotion to the life and teachings of Sri Bhagavan is exemplary.It is always an inspiration to read your posts here in this thread and I look forward to it every morning and again in the evening.
Namaskar.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2710 on: December 21, 2012, 07:27:32 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

Yes, if you can delete all those post which contain ‘limbs of true enquiry’, that would indeed be a great favour on your part to me, for that is something that is not at all acceptable to me. For, in my view, that is something that undermines Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching of Atma-Vichara.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2711 on: December 22, 2012, 10:09:42 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Ravi,

Thanks very much, sir. Your mature understanding and inspired insights help me to continue to utilise the space here to keep my little self at His Feet.

Pranam,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2712 on: December 22, 2012, 10:13:30 AM »
Dear Devotees,

What follows has been copied from Sri Jewell’s thread ‘Divine poetry and thoughts’.  I have done this without seeking permission, for love does not seek and need permission.


SRI RAMANA SATGURU


12. His glorious feet are praised by the gods
Who stand around him in humble devotion.
He is the Way, the Door and the King of Pure Knowledge
This Ramana Sat-Guru!

13. The Lord of the Vedas, the Jewel of the Vedas,
He is the Vedas Incarnate.
The delighter in life eternal gained by the power of his love,
Is Ramana Sat-Guru!

14. He is the turiya state, the pure expanse,
The stage for world-play, the Witness pervading the seven worlds
And the whole universe, himself remaining unstained.
Transcendental is Ramana Sat-Guru!

15. He is the juice of the sweet fruit ripened on the tree of Awareness.
At one with That, he remains all by himself
As Being-Knowledge-Bliss,
Ramana Sat-Guru!

16. He is the dear Lord, dweller in the cavity of my heart,
In union with me like salt in water.
He is both father and mother to me. He is Reality Itself —
Ramana Sat-Guru!

17. Free from the troublesome waking,
dream and deep sleep states,
Perfect, beyond the reach of speech,
The meaning of the mahavakya
Is Ramana Sat-Guru!
18. The ever-existent Reality is this Brahmin,
Who is beyond caste and creed, beginningless,
The untainted Lord of Knowledge,
The Light revealed in Love — Ramana Sat-Guru!

Ramana Sat-Guru, Ramana Sat-Guru,
Ramana Sat-Guru, my Lord!
Ramana Sat-Guru, Ramana Sat-Guru,
Ramana Sat-Guru, my Lord!


 
   
Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2713 on: December 22, 2012, 10:15:01 AM »
The body is like an earthen pot, inert. Because it has no consciousness of ‘I’, and because daily in bodiless sleep we touch our real nature, the body is not ‘I’. Then who is this ‘I’? Where is this ‘I’? In the Heart-cave of those that questions thus, there shines forth as ‘I’, HIMSELF, THE LORD SIVA OF ARUNACHALA.
V. 10, Reality in Forty Verses : Supplement

Dear Devotees,

When a devotee named Dr. Srinivasa Rao asked Sri Bhagwan whether in Verse 10 of the ‘Supplement to Reality in Forty Verses ‘ Sri Bhagwan does not teach us TO AFFIRM ‘SOHAM’.  Sri Bhagwan explained it as follows:

“It is said the whole Vedanta can be compressed into the four words, DEHAM, NAHAM, KOHAM, SOHAM. This stanza (as quoted above) says the same. In the first two lines, it is explained why deham is naham, i.e., why the body is not ‘I’ or na ham. The next two lines say, ‘IF ONE ENQUIRES KO HAM, I.E., WHO AM I, I.E. IF ONE ENQUIRES WHENCE THIS ‘I’SPRINGS AND REALISES IT, THEN IN THE HEART OF SUCH A ONE THE OMNIPRESENT GOD ARUNACHALA WILL SHINE AS ‘I’, as sa aham or soham: i.e., HE WILL KNOW  ‘THAT I AM’, I.E. ‘THAT IS ‘I’.”

Dear devotees, if one enquires, “Who am I?” and allows the mind to take deeper and deeper plunge within, he will know ‘THAT I AM’, THAT IS ‘I’. This is ATMA-VICHARA. And not ‘I am not this, I am that’, etc., although this practice may be an aid for some, as Sri Bhagwan has also taught that ‘pranayama’ may be an aid, and that if one achieves concentration by these practices, one should not stop at that, but press further and ask ‘Who am I?’ with one-pointed mind thus achieved. One may even take japa to achieve one-pointedness. But one should know that these are only aids, if one cannot take to Vichara directly.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil
             

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2714 on: December 22, 2012, 10:40:20 AM »
Dear anil,

Sri Bhagavan told the girl child of G.V. Subbaramiah, Indra to chant Deham, Naham, Koham, Soham. The young girl remembered
this and was often repeating, even after taking leave of Sri Bhagavan to go home. In two months, she fell sick and the fever
became serious and she died. But the young child was repeating Sri Bhagavan's mantra upadesa till her passing away.

Arunachala Siva.