Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759149 times)

Vinod

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2205 on: September 05, 2012, 08:52:11 PM »
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The atma vichara as Bhagavan says will lead us to the end where there is no God...

I don't agree on that point. There is God now. There is God after Realization too. Actually Realization means realization that God is your Inner Consciousness and only He is real.

Dear Hari,

I know that you have great respect and love for our master and I also know that you are not among those who judge people. So request you to please dont judge on preachings of our master coz they are great souls and we can never reach to the heights they have reached. We must feel lucky to be a dust particle under their feet and should always try to understand and just accept their preachings instead of disagreeing.

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2206 on: September 05, 2012, 08:57:19 PM »
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The atma vichara as Bhagavan says will lead us to the end where there is no God, no creation, no asuras and no devas

Amazing to see that same thought is expressed in Yoga Vasista too. Yes. So true. Anything with a NAME and a FORM is Maya and they will all cease to exist. A world without names and forms is all our true inner self.

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2207 on: September 05, 2012, 09:14:03 PM »
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I know that you have great respect and love for our master and I also know that you are not among those who judge people. So request you to please dont judge on preachings of our master coz they are great souls and we can never reach to the heights they have reached. We must feel lucky to be a dust particle under their feet and should always try to understand and just accept their preachings instead of disagreeing!

Quote
"Have you seen God?" I asked. "And if you have, can you enable me to see him? I am willing to pay any price, even my life, but your part of the bargain is that you must show me God."

"No," He (Ramana Maharshi) answered. "I cannot show you God or enable you to see God because God is not an object that can be seen. God is the subject. He is the seer. Don't concern yourself with objects that can be seen. Find out who the seer is." He also added, "You alone are God," as if to rebuke me for looking for a God who was outside and apart from me.

I don't know why you have the impression that I try to 'judge' Master's preachings. I have just given another perspective of His teaching. He has said:

Quote
• Questioner. What is Guru-kripa ? How does it lead to Self-realization?

• Maharshi. Guru is the Self.... Sometimes in his life a man becomes dissatisfied with it, and, not content with what he has, he seeks the satisfaction of his desires, through prayer to God etc. His mind is gradually purified until he longs to know God, more to obtain His Grace than to satisfy his worldly desires. Then, God's Grace begins to manifest. God takes the form of a Guru and appears to the devotee, teaches him the Truth and, moreover, purifies his mind by association. The devotee's mind gains strength and is then able to turn inward. By meditation it is further purified and it remains still without the least ripple. That calm Expanse is the Self. The Guru is both 'external' and 'internal'. From the 'exterior' He gives a push to the mind to turn inward; from the 'interior' He pulls the mind towards the Self and helps in the quieting of the mind. That is Guru-kripa. There is no difference between God, Guru and the Self.

God first is seen as Someone outside you, then He has manifested Himself as Guru in some form and finally the devotee realizes the God only exists as his inner consciousness. I don't really understand your position, dear Vinod.

Best wishes, Hari
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Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2208 on: September 05, 2012, 09:27:11 PM »
Quote
The atma vichara as Bhagavan says will lead us to the end where there is no God, no creation, no asuras and no devas

Amazing to see that same thought is expressed in Yoga Vasista too. Yes. So true. Anything with a NAME and a FORM is Maya and they will all cease to exist. A world without names and forms is all our true inner self.

Sanjay

It is said in Ashtavakra Gita, by Buddha and so on but let's not forget that They are realized souls. As Lord Ramana says Ishvara exists for the unrealized souls and He 'disappears' last, just before the Realization.
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eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2209 on: September 06, 2012, 09:21:59 AM »
Sri Bhagwan: God is necessary, for most people. They can go on with one, till they find that they and God are not different.
A Swami: In actual practice, sadhakas, even sincere ones, sometimes become dejected and lose faith in God. How to restore their faith? What should we do for them?
Sri Bhagwan: If one cannot believe in God, it does not matter, I suppose he believes in himself, in his own existence. LET HIM FIND OUT THE SOURCE FROM WHICH HE CAME.
                                  Day by Day With Bhagwan
 Dear Devotees,

This is the familiar refrain of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching. IS IT NOT?
Leave God alone. We are aware of our own existence, or do we deny it, can we deny it? No. So, let us find out the source from which we came, let us find out the source of our own existence. Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching thus always veers round the Beneficial Vichara:
Devotee: When I concentrate, all sorts of thoughts rise and disturb me. The more I try, the more thoughts rise up. What should I do?
Sri Bhagwan : It will be so. All that is inside will try to come out. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY EXCEPT TO PULL UP THE MIND EACH TIME IT WANTS TO GO ASTRAY AND TO FIX IT ON THE SELF. Sri Bhagwan quoted the verse in the Bhagavad Gita which says that as often as the wavering mind goes after anything, it should be drawn away and fixed in the Self. 
Dear devotees, we must not confuse practice with the goal. Distractions result from the inherited tendencies and sri Bhagwan has assured repeatedly that they can be cast off too by Vichara.
“Yes, Many have done so. Believe it! They did so because they believed they could. VASANAS CAN BE OBLITERATED. IT IS DONE BY CONCENTRATION ON THAT WHICH IS FREE FROM VASANAS AND YET IS THEIR CORE.”
Yet again:
Till success is achieved and until yoga-liberation becomes permanent. Success begets success. If one distraction is conquered the next is conquered and so on, until all are finally conquered. The process is like reducing an enemy’s fort by slaying its man-power—one by one, as each issues out.

So, this is the practice.

Dear devotees, as I have understood, Atman is the Aim. Is It not?
Sri Bhagwan: WHAT ELSE CAN THERE BE?
Yes, what other Aim can there be? SRI BHAGWAN SAYS THAT OTHER AIMS ARE FOR THOSE WHO ARE INCAPABLE OF ATMALAKSHYA, OR HAVING THE SELF AS THE AIM.  IF ONE HAS IDENTIFIED THE AIM, IT IS CERTAIN TO ULTIMATELY LEAD TO ATMA-VICHARA.  Sri Bhawan has taught that one-pointedness is the fruit of all kinds of practice. One may get it quickly; another may take longer time, depending on the sincerity and steadfastness in the practice.

Besides:
D: How Grace is to be obtained?
Sri Bhagwan: Similar to obtaining the Self
Thus, Sri Bhagwan teaches that Grace is constant. OUT JUDGMENT IS VARIABLE.

Grace is vouchsafed for one who has striven hard on the Path to obtain the Self, FOR THE SELF IS THE GRACE AND GRACE IS THE SELF.

Dear devotees, the obstacles are thoughts. Progress is measured by the degree of removal of the obstacles to understanding that the Self is always realised. And thoughts can be checked by seeking to whom they arise.

Therefore, I also feel like so many other devotees of Sri Bhagwan that if one has some interest in the Path of Self-enquiry, one should follow it even if not very good at it. For, THE BEST PREPARATION FOR SELF-ENQUIRY IS SELF-ENQUIRY ITSELF.

Sri Bhagwan assures that as the meditation on the Self rises higher and higher, the thoughts, or predispositions are sure to get destroyed.

I feel that the only restriction that we should earnestly observe is the food-restriction, as has been taught by Sri Bhagwan thus:

“Of all the restrictive rules, that relating to the taking of sattvic food in moderate quantities is the best; by observing this rule, the sattvic quality of mind will increase, and that will be helpful to Self-enquiry.” (Who Am I?)

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil





Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2210 on: September 06, 2012, 02:08:13 PM »
Dear Anil,

Grace is proportionate to one's own faith and surrender to guru or God.  Grace is ever there. But one should be able to carry
it in large measure only when one has great faith in Guru or God.  River is perennial and is flowing to the brim. But unless one
can take a large pot, he cannot carry back  large quantity of water. If one carries only a spoon, one can carry back only a
spoonful of water!

Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2211 on: September 06, 2012, 03:18:02 PM »
Quote:
“Grace is proportionate to one's own faith and surrender to guru or God.  Grace is ever there. But one should be able to carry
it in large measure only when one has great faith in Guru or God.  River is perennial and is flowing to the brim. But unless one
can take a large pot, he cannot carry back  large quantity of water. If one carries only a spoon, one can carry back only a
spoonful of water!’

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Grace is ever flowing, like the ocean, ever full. Everyone draws according to his capacity. One who has brought only a tumbler should not complain that he is not able to take as much water as another who has brought a jar.

Dear sir, in this analogy, water is Grace. But what is meant by a tumbler and a jar and what is meant by their capacity? And whose is the pot—tumbler or jar?

Ji. Yes. Grace is always there. If not, how are we all making effort at all? We should also not forget that it is Guru’s Grace which attracts one to a particular path. It is the Grace that we remember Him, worship Him. It is the Grace which sustains interest and makes for the success of our effort to become Self-realised. Grace is therefore, truly, the beginning, middle and the end.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2212 on: September 06, 2012, 04:18:15 PM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. In a sense, taking  the tumbler or jar or spoon is also due to Guru's Grace. But what Sri Bhagavan meant  in this particular
conversation is the level of sadhaka's own effort by means of surrender to Guru or God.

Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2213 on: September 07, 2012, 10:39:30 AM »
Quote”
“In a sense, taking  the tumbler or jar or spoon is also due to Guru's Grace. But what Sri Bhagavan meant  in this particular
conversation is the level of sadhaka's own effort by means of surrender to Guru or God.”


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. What I meant to say is this that it is true that Grace is always available, always present, but for it to be effective, one must be in a state to receive it and make full use of it. If one has to take a full bucket of water from a lake, one has to ensure that the bucket is empty and not filled with intoxicating drinks. So, first one has to empty it and then immerse it fully into the lake. SO ALSO, IF WE WANT TO FILL OUR MIND WITH GRACE, WE MUST FIRST DIVEST IT, EMPTY IT, OF THE PERNICIOUS PREDISPOSITIONS, AND THEN WE MUST SUBMERGE THE MIND FULLY IN THE SELF. IN THAT PLACE GRACE WILL MANIFEST FULLY IN US AS PEACE AND HAPPINESS.
So, in this analogy, mind is the bucket or the jar. Degree of absence of thoughts and predisposition in the mind is its capacity to take in the Grace. And ‘whose is the bucket?’ is akin to ‘whose is the mind?’ Of course, it is the ego. Therefore, it follows that if mind, divested of predisposition, is fully submerged in the Self, or if one has entirely surrendered oneself, is there anyone left to ask for Grace? No. he is swallowed up by Grace. He realises the Self. AND MANIFESTATION OF THE SELF IS THE MANIFESTATION OF THE GRACE AND VICE VERSA. Where else will Grace come from? SELF IS THE GRACE AND THE GRACE IS THE SELF.

Dear sir, as you have mentioned in your post, it is true that realisation of Grace is directly proportional to one’s advancement on the Path. AS THE PRACTICE OF THE SELF-ENQUIRY PURIFIES ONE’S MIND AND MAKES IT MORE AND MORE PEACFUL AND EQUIPOSED, ONE CERTAINLY BECOMES MORE AND MORE AWARE OF THE GURU’S GRACE.

Therefore, from the above discussion, it follows that the practice of the Self-enquiry helps awareness of Grace and Grace paves way for the inward bent of the mind. In other words, Grace and Vichara acts and reacts on each other and make the seemingly impossible possible.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil       


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2214 on: September 07, 2012, 02:48:51 PM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. That is why Sri Bhagavan said: Many do come here. But only few have been called (by me). Still fewer attain the goal.
Thus, He had indicated the maturity levels of Sadhakas indirectly.

Arunachala Siva. 

Vinod

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2215 on: September 07, 2012, 07:04:07 PM »

The atma vichara as Bhagavan says will lead us to the end where there is no God...


I don't agree on that point. There is God now. There is God after Realization too. Actually Realization means realization that God is your Inner Consciousness and only He is real.

I don't really understand your position, dear Vinod.

Dear Hari,

With due respect i have no intentions to offend you and I am also not questioning your perception as well. I just feel that the term "disagree" for our master's preachings was little bit harsh and  nothing else. For the same thing you have already explained, so there are no issues.

Never mind!

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!


Hari

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2216 on: September 07, 2012, 07:27:25 PM »
That was not Master's opinion. I disagreed with ramanduli's opinion. Sri Ramana has never taught that there is no God! That was my objection and that's why I have shared my opinion.

Best wishes, Hari
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Vinod

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2217 on: September 07, 2012, 07:37:03 PM »
I am doing this self enquiry when I am on bed or when I take a nap.
As mentioned above, we can also practice this process at any stage of our daily life. I will try this and see how it works.
OM ARUNACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

Dear All,

As mentioned in my prev post, I started doing self enquiry and also just concentrating on the self with keeping the mind less active(with unnecessary thoughts) and found its not so easy to put in practice as mentioned. Saying so I dont mean that I will quit doing it or to scare any one to do it and I also understand that, these are the challenges we need to overcome.

Below are the challenges I have faced from people due to change in attitude.

Mom - She wanted me to approach a baba and get tabeez(thread with powers to tie on our body), so that I can be like before.
Sister - She called my child hood friend to home, to know why I am in depression (since I am silent)
Friend - "have you become old why have you stopped flirting with girls"
Training Manager (office) - "Are you sick/not keeping well, I dont see any expression on your face from the beginning of the day"

I understand that the road ahead of me is very bumpy and since I am young and unmarried, its gonna be very challenging.

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2218 on: September 07, 2012, 07:54:16 PM »
Dear Vinod,


There is nothing wrong in your state. Outsiders cannot understand what is happening in one's mind. Sri Sankara speaks
about realized persons that they would move like madmen, like child, like an eccentric etc., This is true in the case of sadhakas
also. Their inner struggle is not known to outsiders.

One more thing. Such sadhakas do not spend time in watching TVs or listening to cinema songs, or just chit-chatting etc.,
It is something peculiar for onlookers. They think: O this man is going to become a Sannyasi!  That is all, they can say.

When I was 20, I first started reading Tiruvachakam. Many elders said: why all this now? you can do it after retirement!
Now read your college lessons and be happy with friends.

After retirement! As if all sadhana has to be taken only after retirement, when your eyes have developed cataract,
when you are hard to listen anything, when your eyesight is weak, when your concentration is at low ebb and when
you get diabetics and blood pressure.  Who knows? Some people even die before 60. How can one postpone and keep
a particular period of life for spiritual pursuits?

One Azhwar sang: I am telling your names now itself. Because at 'that time' I may not even be able to move my tongue!

Life is full of uncertainties. Death is the only certainty. It is unwise to post pone things.

Arunachala Siva.     

Vinod

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #2219 on: September 07, 2012, 08:01:53 PM »
Subramanian ji,

I cant tell you, how much relaxed I felt after reading your post. Trust me I've been facing many challenges esp from people whom I considered to be very close to me and I feel very alone some times when they dont understand me.

Thank you so much for your kind words.

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!