Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755731 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1665 on: May 05, 2012, 03:57:02 PM »
Dear Anil,

Yes. Ego is non existent. It is non existent like ghost. But we are afraid of ghosts. Is it not? Sri Bhagavan also uses the words
Ahandhai pei - the ego ghost. When this ghost will go away? Only when some dheera (courageous) one goes with a torch light
and see after going near that so called ghost. Then he will find that there is no ghost at all there, but only a post or a pillar.


Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1666 on: May 05, 2012, 04:55:23 PM »
all I can suggest at this stage is this that one needs to take one final plunge fearlessly, apparently into ‘Nothingness’ or ‘Abyss’, but truly into ONESELF -- ATMA-SWARUPA, which is Bliss Itself , and remain anchored there foe once and all. Then only we understand that there is no merging or death, these are only the fears of the truly non-existent, rising and falling ego-‘I’.     

Sri Bhagwan says in Talk—28 that it is our pleasure that helps our growth—food, exercise, rest, and gregarious qualities. He says that our nature is primarily one, entire, blissful, but ego’s perfection is suddenly broken at a point and a want is felt, giving rise to get something or do something. When that want is satisfied the ego is happy and the original perfection is restored for the time being till its original perfection is broken again. This is the relative progress by satisfaction of want. Yes, we, the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana, by His Grace, have become aware that this cannot, at any cost, continue, at least for long and therefore it is high time to stop rising and returning back to rise again and return back and so on. It is high time to stop and rest in the Cool Shade of the Swarupa for ever.   

we need to stop this relative progress by satisfaction of want and merge into the Self of the nature of Bliss and perfect Peace.

Yes. Ego is non existent. It is non existent like ghost. But we are afraid of ghosts. Is it not? Sri Bhagavan also uses the words
Ahandhai pei - the ego ghost. When this ghost will go away? Only when some dheera (courageous) one goes with a torch light
and see after going near that so called ghost. Then he will find that there is no ghost at all there, but only a post or a pillar.

Dear i,

yes, it is hitting the bulls eye - "Yes, we, the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana, by His Grace, have become aware that this cannot, at any cost, continue, at least for long and therefore it is high time to stop rising and returning back to rise again and return back and so on. It is high time to stop and rest in the Cool Shade of the Swarupa for ever. "

yes, "it is only when some dheera (courageous) one goes with a torch light and see after going near that so called ghost. Then he will find that there is no ghost at all there, but only a post or a pillar."

Sri Krishna has said in his song, Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

we should endeavor to be THAT ONE among the thousands, who knows Him as that truth.

The ball is now thrown back to our court itself! We have to strive for that perfection, yes, it is in our hands, as you rightly observed in the other topic - "Self-surrender and its meaning as revealed by Maha Guru Bhagwan Sri Ramana" -

"There is no doubt whatever that the Divine Grace is essential for God-Realisation. But Sri Bhagwan says that such Grace is vouchsafed only to him who is a true devotee or a yogin, who has striven hard and ceaselessly on the path towards freedom. However, on another occasion, He says that we are making effort, in the first place, because of the Guru’s or God’s Grace.

THEREFORE, IT CAN BE SAID THAT GRACE IS THE CAUSE OF THE EFFORT AND EFFORT IS THE CAUSE OF THE GRACE. I should say that Grace is obtained through effort and effort is prompted by the Grace."


So, what i take from here, is, to pacify (or take it closer to the truth - Upanishat) the primordial 'i' with knowledge, till, it realises that there is no death to it, and, to constantly remind the emerged 'i' the blissful nature of its source, compared to the momentary happiness, it enjoys after its emergence, when it thus realises its own blissful nature, that it does not need to look for bliss elsewhere, that itself, which is blissful by nature.

Thank you.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Skandha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1667 on: May 05, 2012, 10:03:35 PM »
Hi All,

I had a question. I can sense an energy inside me continuosly moving around my brain area while starting somewhere in chest. This energy turns,circles and keep making movements. I can sense the energy all the times while I am awake. When I make the "who am I" question, I can also sense that the energy slowly comes down - but it is hard to bring it down. I am aware of the energy coming down and with further effort I can sense the sucking of the energy inside the chest. I can see a small light, but if I try to focus on that light - it is gone (stays for like 1sec).

When I eat something or drink water, I see that this energy increases further and thus the rotations/movements become more faster - as if the energy is wrapping off the brain and makes me still as I dont have any choice but observe the energy. So, I observe the energy but at the same time I am doing outside activities.The increased energy on the brain gives me such a good/pure feeling.

This is going on in me for the past 2 years continuosly. I was initially afraid of the phenomenon but later began reading some books by Ramana for solace. But I am not sure what is happening. Can anyone of you guide me ? Anyone with the similar experiences ?

Skandha
(THis is my first post in this forum.Please guide me if I am posting in the wrong topic)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1668 on: May 06, 2012, 07:47:59 AM »
Dear Sri Skandha,

Welcome !

I wish to know whether you have been engaged, of late, in some sort of yogic practices, such as, pranayama, or other breathing exercises, etc. ? I wish to know, if you do not mind, how are you meditating now-a-days ?

Thank you,
  Anil   

Skandha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1669 on: May 06, 2012, 08:31:11 AM »
Dear Anil,

I had practiced Yoga and Pranayama long time back(around 8 years back)
But I started off with this experience once when I was meditating 2 years back.
To be honest, I don't do any meditation now.. but watching this energy inside keeps me more pre-occupied.
I feel better watching(when I tell watching, its more of a sensation of its movement inside than seeing it) the energy than meditating ...

Skandha

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1670 on: May 06, 2012, 11:12:53 AM »
Quote from Sri Skandha:
“When I make the "who am I" question, I can also sense that the energy slowly comes down - but it is hard to bring it down. I am aware of the energy coming down and with further effort I can sense the sucking of the energy inside the chest. I can see a small light, but if I try to focus on that light - it is gone (stays for like 1sec).



Dear Anil,

I had practiced Yoga and Pranayama long time back(around 8 years back)
But I started off with this experience once when I was meditating 2 years back.
To be honest, I don't do any meditation now.. but watching this energy inside keeps me more pre-occupied.
I feel better watching(when I tell watching, its more of a sensation of its movement inside than seeing it) the energy than meditating ...

Skandha”

Dear Sri Skandha,

The proper way of doing Self-enquiry, as taught by Sri Bhagwan, is not to watch energy moving or seeing or experiencing light etc., but to seek and merge in the Source of the one who is experiencing all these phenomena. If you have been engaged in some yogic practices, such as, pranayama etc., and obtained some sort of concentration or control of the mind, you should not rest content with any experience whatever that may accrue therefrom, but should harness the controlled mind to the question “Who am I?” till the Source is found and the mind is merged in the Self. INWARD, INWARD, IS THE WAY.

Dear Sri Skandha, light, energy, trances, etc. are mere appearances, and not the Self. One should, in my view, aim for the highest goal, that is, Self-Awareness and should not be distracted by minor phenomena, such as experiencing energy moving or seeing light and experiencing pleasure etc. There must be one who is experiencing all these things. Who is he? Yes, I shall say that the Self-enquiry or the Atma-Vichara, as taught by Sri Bhagwan, is the one infallible method to find who in truth am I.

Thank you,
  Anil       



Skandha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1671 on: May 06, 2012, 11:27:17 AM »
Thanks a lot Anil. I shall continue the "who am I" enquiry.
But can you confirm on this rise of I-I and what Bhagavan calls as "Aham Sphurana" before the ultimate realization.
I am confused about what I am experiencing.. Is it just prana or is it mind  or is it I-I ?
I ask this because, this phenomenon I experience is not temporary.. It is always with me and I dont have any choice on the way it works when I watch. It is light and it has energy and is inside my body and I feel it is a part of me. When I keep watching and try to bring it down after a while I get the feeling that I operate from the chest and feel that my head is actually way far high.
I know its a lot of questions and I should just focus on "who am I" enquiry than these mere phenomenon.. but wanted to share ...

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1672 on: May 06, 2012, 01:56:47 PM »
Dear Skandha,

Welcome to the forum. If you want to practice self inquiry go strictly by the way Sri  Bhagavan had said and what members
here explain.

Arunachala Siva, 

Skandha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1673 on: May 06, 2012, 02:49:06 PM »
Dear Shri Subramaniam,

Thanks. Will follow the path.

Skandha

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1674 on: May 06, 2012, 05:07:33 PM »
Quote from Sri Skandha:
“But can you confirm on this rise of I-I and what Bhagavan calls as "Aham Sphurana" before the ultimate realization.
I am confused about what I am experiencing.. Is it just prana or is it mind or is it I-I ?
I ask this because, this phenomenon I experience is not temporary.. It is always with me and I dont have any choice on the way it works when I watch. It is light and it has energy and is inside my body and I feel it is a part of me. When I keep watching and try to bring it down after a while I get the feeling that I operate from the chest and feel that my head is actually way far high.
I know its a lot of questions and I should just focus on "who am I" enquiry than these mere phenomenon.. but wanted to share.”


Dear Sri Skandha,

Sphurana means shining. Brahman is unmanifest and the first sign of its manifestation is the Aham Sphurana or the Light of ‘I’. When ‘I’ or ‘Aham’ represents the Self only, it is called Aham Sphurana. The ego, or ‘I’-thought, or aham vritti, is broken, whereas ‘Aham Sphurana’ or the Light of ‘I-I’ is unbroken and continuous. When thoughts and relative consciousness subside, it asserts itself.

Dear Skandha, Aham Sphurana is the incessant flash of Self or ‘I-I’ Consciousness. One can be aware of it, hear it, feel it and sense it, with a calm mind. Sri Bhagwan says that it is pure, unbroken awareness of our Self, rather of Being, AND THERE IS NO MISTAKING IT WHEN PURE.

Thank you,
  Anil 


Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1675 on: May 06, 2012, 10:48:22 PM »
I had a question. I can sense an energy inside me continuosly moving around my brain area while starting somewhere in chest. This energy turns,circles and keep making movements. I can sense the energy all the times while I am awake. When I make the "who am I" question, I can also sense that the energy slowly comes down - but it is hard to bring it down. I am aware of the energy coming down and with further effort I can sense the sucking of the energy inside the chest. I can see a small light, but if I try to focus on that light - it is gone (stays for like 1sec).

When I eat something or drink water, I see that this energy increases further and thus the rotations/movements become more faster - as if the energy is wrapping off the brain and makes me still as I dont have any choice but observe the energy. So, I observe the energy but at the same time I am doing outside activities.The increased energy on the brain gives me such a good/pure feeling.

This is going on in me for the past 2 years continuosly. I was initially afraid of the phenomenon but later began reading some books by Ramana for solace. But I am not sure what is happening. Can anyone of you guide me ? Anyone with the similar experiences ?

Dear i,

Experiences are certainly common at some stage. What i want to tell you is this, you say you can "sense sense that the energy slowly comes down - but it is hard to bring it down. I am aware of the energy coming down and with further effort I can sense the sucking of the energy inside the chest. I can see a small light, but if I try to focus on that light - it is gone (stays for like 1sec)."

You also are able to observe sense that the energy slowly comes down - but it is hard to bring it down. I am aware of the energy coming down and with further effort I can sense the sucking of the energy inside the chest. I can see a small light, but if I try to focus on that light - it is gone (stays for like 1sec).

You are also able to observe that the increased energy on the brain givees you good feeling.

By my own experience, by my grasp of Bhagavan's teaching, pay attention to not what happens, ie. your experiences, but pay attention to yourself, ie. experiencer, observer. If you note carefully, it is simple, you were able to observe clearly, what all experiences you were having, the locations such as brain, heart, movements up and down and so on, so, is it not very clear, that you, yourself, who are a witness to these experiences, absolutely untouched by those? Experiences are only distractions, do not pay any atention to it, many things may occur, colours, lights, flashes, movements, what ever it is, do not take give it much value. Always pay attention to yourself, who is witnessing all these, the Seer alone is important, and all that is seen is not important.

Do not for any cost, be satisfied with the pure feeling or good feeling that you experience as the end. you may enjoy those good feelers, but do not stay put with such feelers as they are nothing but laya, temporary, if you are experienceing the good feeling, who is it that is having good feeling? who is that is discerning it as pure feeling? That you should pay attention to, not this.

Do not give much importance to experiences, at all times, give attention only to yourself, in whose presence all these even occur!

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 07:23:00 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1676 on: May 07, 2012, 08:28:48 AM »
Let your whole thought in meditation be not on the act of seeing, nor on what you see, but immovably on THAT who sees.
                                                                                    Sri Bhagwan

There the sun shines not, nor the moon, nor the stars, nor fire; all these shine forth by Its Light.
                                                                                            Upanishad

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. That is a very nice post. Thank you so much.

The Self is beyond light and darkness and is That who illumines both knowledge and ignorance. That it is not darkness is certain. Yet, it is not wrong to say that Realisation of the Self requires a Light. HOWEVER, SRI BHAGWAN SAYS THAT THAT LIGHT IS THE CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH REVEALS AS THE SELF ONLY.

On the path of yoga, Yogis are said to see light and colours etc. In this context, Sri Bhagwan once narrated a story which is as follows :

It is well known that once before the Mother Parvati practiced austerities for realising the Supreme. During meditation, She saw some kinds of light. She rejected them because She knew that they emanated from the Self and determined that they were not the Supreme. She continued Her austerities and experienced an infinite expanse of light, limitless light. She again determined that  this also was a phenomenon and not the Supreme Reality. So, still She continued Her austerities until She gained Transcendental Peace. Then She realised that It was Supreme, and that the Self was the sole Reality.

Regards,
  Anil 

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1677 on: May 07, 2012, 08:45:28 AM »
Let your whole thought in meditation be not on the act of seeing, nor on what you see, but immovably on THAT who sees.
                                                                                    Sri Bhagwan

There the sun shines not, nor the moon, nor the stars, nor fire; all these shine forth by Its Light.
                                                                                            Upanishad

Dear i,

wonderful and very appropriate recollection of Bhagavan's words. These words are verily the Vedanta Saram, the ultimate aim of any Sadhana. Every other act of Sadhana is only aimed at arriving at this very discernment alone! Once, one arrives at this discernment, then this alone should be important and this alone should super-cede all other acts, be it spiritual or otherwise.

Bhagavan clearly has also said - "Seeing is Being"

the 'i' that emerges again and again, ought to be engulfed with this 'seeing-being'

but, there is a burning sensation prevailing, as i have observed, i must therefore ignore this sensation and stay put as the master witness, which is itself untouched by these sensations, i see the dance of this emerged 'i' - hopefully to submerge or merge itself into source.

Perhaps this is the essence of Nandishwara looking at Shiva in temples.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 08:47:31 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1678 on: May 07, 2012, 01:19:07 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Sri Bhagavan to Greenlees:

Talks No. 310:

"Meditation is your true nature. You call it meditation because there are other thoughts distracting you. When these
thoughts are dispelled you remain alone i.e in the state of meditation free from thoughts. And that is your real nature
which you are now attempting to gain by keeping away from thoughts......."

Arunachala Siva.
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1679 on: May 07, 2012, 02:26:32 PM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj:
“Perhaps this is the essence of Nandishwara looking at Shiva in temples.”


Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. This is indeed a very beautiful discernment. Sri Bhagwan says that there is only one Truth. When we are looking at the movement, we call it the Shakti, the Power. But when we settle down in the support of the movement, we call it Achala. If the former is activity, the latter is the ‘Ashraya’, the Substance. Sri Bhagwan says that without the activity of the Shakti, the Power, the Real Substance, cannot be discerned. However, the Shakti is coeval with the Eternal Ishwara. It has no existence apart from Him. It is the Eternal Activity of Ishwara, creating and destroying myriads of worlds. 

Sri Bhagwan again says that this whole movement, the creation, called a play of Shakti, is a formulation or imagination or ‘kalpana’ of the Lord. If this is kalpana of the Lord is transcended, what remains is the Swarupa.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, ji, yes. Sri Bhagwan says that when objective distinctions of seer and seen comes to an end and one knows oneself to be the mere substratum on which the world scene appears and disappears, rather than being witness of it, seeing and being become one and the same.

In my view, the Mother looking at lord Shiva in Shiva Temples depicts the State of Realisation—Shakti, the Activity settling down in the Support of the Movement.

And then ?
Sri Muruganar sings :
In Sivam, the eye that is fully open as pure consciousness, a second kind of eyesight cannot exist.
For, Sri Bhagwan says that there is only one Truth.

Regards,
  Anil