Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756033 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1650 on: May 02, 2012, 09:45:07 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan says that all spiritual practices including concentration are meant only for non-existence of ignorance. We cannot deny our being. I cannot say that I am not. Being is Knowledge or Awareness. Awareness of our being implies absence of ignorance. We are already admitting non-existence of ignorance.

YET, WE ARE SUFFERING. WHY?

Because ‘I’-thought rises in our being and we begin to think, “I am this or that, I am such and such and so on.”, whereas ‘I am’ alone is.

WHEN EXISTENCE IS ABSOLUTE, IT IS TRUE OR RIGHT, BUT WHEN IT IS PARTICULARISED OR OBJECTIFIED, IT IS WRONG.     

Dear devotees, one admits of one’s being, that he is, even without looking and confirming in the mirror that he is, without objectifying himself. Do we look in the mirror and say, “I am’ ? We are aware of our eyes even though we do not see them. Are we not ?

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan says that we cannot say that we do not know the Self. Though I cannot see my eyes and even if not provided with a mirror, I know that there are two eyes. We cannot deny that since I am not seeing them they are not.

SIMILARLY, WE ARE AWARE OF THE SELF EVEN THOUGH THE SELF IS NOT OBJECTIFIED.

I ask of you, can we deny our Self simply because our Self cannot be objectified ?


Therefore, dear devotees, when we say that we do not know the Self, it only means absence in terms of relative knowledge. Because we are so deeply accustomed to objective and relative knowledge that we identify ourselves with them.

Says Sri Bhagwan :

Such wrong identity has forged the difficulty of not knowing the OBVIOUS SELF because it cannot be objectified.; and you ask, “How is one to know the Self?” Your difficulty is centred in “How?” Who is to know the Self? Can the body know It ?

Therefore, Sri Bhagwan indicates the truth of our being thus :
“KNOWING THE SELF MEANS BEING THE SELF.”

Thank you,
   Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1651 on: May 03, 2012, 07:31:53 AM »
                                         CALL THE TREE A STANDING MAN; AND CALL THE MAN A MOVING TREE.
                                                                                        Talk—591



Dear Devotees,

Truly there is no division in the Self except from a VIEW-POINT, VIEW-POINT OF UPADHIS. Upadhis are the limiting adjuncts which are false and limiting identifications that are superimposed on the Consciousness. Identification with any form, i.e. a body, a mind and even an idea, is an upadhi, a limiting adjunct.

Sri Muruganar sings that none of the defects arising through upadhis inhere in the lofty purity of that consciousness which is the Self.

Dear devotees, light, that is, the insentient light, is necessary for discovering the presence or absence of an insentient object. However, consciousness is necessary for discovering whether something is conscious or not. For instance, if a man remains in a dark room, one need not take a lamp to find him. For, if called, he answers. He does not require a lamp to announce his presence. Consciousness is thus self-shining.

Sri Bhagwan says that neither the unconsciousness of the sleep nor the self-consciousness of the waking state is the Reality. BUT OUR EXISTENCE IS ALL THROUGH, CONTINUOUS AND ETERNAL.


Now, Sri Bhagwan says that the Pure being, the One Reality, the Self, cannot be otherwise than consciousness. OTHERWISE HOW CAN I SAY THAT I EXIST? Therefore, Consciousness is the Reality. Only when this Pure Consciousness is associated with upadhis, i.e. the limiting adjuncts, we speak of self-consciousness, unconsciousness, sub-consciousness, human consciousness, super-consciousness, dog-consciousness, tree-consciousness and so on. THE UNALTERING COMMON FACTOR IN ALL OF THEM IS CONSCIOUSNESS.

We may say that a tree or a stone do not move whereas I move and act. Sri Bhagwan says:

A stone is as much unconscious as you are in sleep. Is that totally devoid of consciousness. Call the tree a standing man; and the man a moving tree.

Thank you,
   Anil       

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1652 on: May 04, 2012, 12:46:21 PM »

Mr. Ekanatha Rao: What is sphurana (a kind of indescribable but palpable sensation in the heart centre)?

M.: Sphurana is felt on several occasions, such as in fear, excitement, etc. Although it is always and all over, yet it is felt at a particular centre and on particular occasions. It is also associated with antecedent causes and confounded with the body. Whereas, it is all alone and pure; it is the Self. If the mind be fixed on the sphurana and one senses it continuously and automatically it is realisation. Again sphurana is the foretaste of Realisation. It is pure. The subject and object proceed from it. If the man mistakes himself for the subject, objects must necessarily appear different from him. They are periodically withdrawn and projected, creating the world and the subject’s enjoyment of the same. If, on the other hand, the man feels himself to be the screen on which the subject and object are projected
there can be no confusion, and he can remain watching their appearance and disappearance without any perturbation to the Self.



Bhagavan says (talks 40) -

Unless intellectually known, how to practice it? Learn it intellectually first, then do not stop with that. Practise it.



A sannyasi asked: It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation is with the mind. Mano na manute, Manasa na matam,
and Manasaivedamaptavyam (The mind cannot think it. It cannot be thought of by the mind and the mind alone can realise it). How are
these contradictions to be reconciled?

M.: Atman is realised with mruta manas (dead mind), i.e., mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind sees its own  source and becomes That. It is not as the subject perceiving an object. When the room is dark a lamp is necessary to illumine and eyes to  cognise objects. But when the sun is risen there is no need of a lamp, and the objects are seen; and to see the sun no lamp is necessary, it is enough that you turn your eyes towards the selfluminous sun.

Similarly with the mind. To see the objects the reflected light of the mind is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it. Then the mind loses itself and the Heart shines forth.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1653 on: May 04, 2012, 02:50:03 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Muruganar says in his commentary on his verse 189 of GVK:

Dualistic pairs of opposing thoughts are thoughts that invariably rise together and which never separate from each other,
such as virtue and sin, joy and misery, good and bad, and so on. You should know that tranquility is not experienced except
by inner harmony, and an inner harmony will only exist for those who have a dead mind. The reason for this is that these
aforementioned thoughts always rise in opposing pairs.

Again Muruganar says in Verse 924:

I declare that even when the mind, in the form of thoughts, ceases to function, something remains. That something is the Reality.
Manifesting as time, it operates in a hidden way, abiding always as the temple of consciousness bliss.

Arunachala Siva.     

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1654 on: May 04, 2012, 02:52:07 PM »
Dear i,

with the above post, which illustrates, the importance of knowing the truth intellectually, without which, one cannot practice being the truth. With this, i have narrowed down to this discernment -

Jnana is directly revealed at the annihilation of Vasanas. there is no finding the truth, just, it is camouflaged by vasanas. Now, unless we intellectually discern that the truth is the ultimate bliss compared to the temporal bliss experienced through vasanas, is nothing, we will be unable to win over Vasanas. Moreover, suppressing vasanas is really not advised because Bhagavan always advised to go to the root of vasanas and enquire the source, so that it never comes up again. Just suppressing our vasanas blindly is not real solution as it is bound to raise again, because the vasanas are not pressed down by knowledge, but they are pressed down by force of aversion to it, or simply because, we have read in scriptures that Vasanas ought to be avoided, blindly. So, when the force reduces because of fatigue, our tiredness, it will capitalise once again.

So Dear i, i have narrowed down to these fundamental question, discernment, which each one of us has to question oneself.

The questions that we have to ask are as follows:

Is the Atmic Bliss superior to the Bliss experience of basar things such as food, luxury, plasures etc...

yes, we will say, Atmic bliss is superior, but is it our experience?, or are we merely parroting what Bhagavan and other sages have said? If we are troubled by our Vasanas, then it is a fact that at least for now, the Vasanas give us better bliss than the Atma. Lets us look into these one by one. Dear i, kindly contemplate and share here, your discernment.

Let us first look from the base, food, everybody cannot live without food. so eating itself is not an issue, but the taste buds, are the different taste that we relish gives us more relishment than the Atma?

Let us begin from food and go further one by one.

Can we all blossom? Thank you.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1655 on: May 04, 2012, 04:54:41 PM »
Let us look into it a little more subtly

                  Atma
  • Scripture declare that Atma is Sat-Chit-Ananda, it is continues, conscious, bliss - basically it declares that Atma alone is that, knowing which, there is absolutely no Dukha, no ending, no beginning, no ending, and it is constant experience, without break.
  • They say, there is no need to work for this experience, it is Swayam Siddha, Swayam Sukha, there is no question of more or less as this is continues, they declare.
  • They say, this bliss is not yet experienced so as to over power the experience of a vasana.
  • They say, there is no fatigue here, there is no tiredness, there is no effort required, yet the happiness is immeasurable compared to that of some vasana.
  • What is this happiness?
  • there is no union required, it is Self, by itself complete, there is no such distinctions as found in the corresponding point, on the other side  --->
                  Some Vasana
  • We can enjoy this experience, when ever we want, it is ending, temporary, but, we have the power to repeat it again
  • We need to work for this experience, the more we need the more we need to put effort for this.
  • This experience is readily available.
  • Fatigues one out, tiredness, mental work, all these are the costs involved to experience this joy, additionally, we need somebody to cook that particular taste for us to enjoy or we need money so as to be able to buy from somewhere to relish this joy.
  • The happiness is the union of tongue and the food.
  • This happiness is only experienced with duality, and the union of that duality, happiness is understood in relation to sadness, union is understood in relation to separation, and so on, Unity is understood in relation to difference

Inspite of the disadvantages of the experience of bliss of Vasanas, from the extant of our own direct experience, the experience of Taste is more directly available simply because, we don't yet know the bliss of Atma, yet.

What we know of Atma is only limited to "They say or Scriptures say" and not yet, our own direct experience, unless we see the bliss in Atma Nishta, we will never be able to over come the experience of taste.

Bhagavan says "Summa Irukkum Sukham" "The bliss of just being" But, do we see the same bliss in just being? we get bored and we look for more transient things which give us bliss.

There is clear lack in discernment of the Atma.

What is that Gap? What is Atma, what Bliss is this Atmic bliss? We need to look deeply at these questions because unless we intellectually grasp the bliss of Atma, we will not be able to let go of our Vasanas. Unless we have direct experience of Atma, we can never know it.

We have read that such bliss were experienced by direct devotees in the Presence of Guru, such as Ramanar, Ramakrishnar, and so on.

i have noticed myself, when i go to Arunachala, i do not remember or even desire any particular food, what ever is available i am content, just to fulfill the hunger. When we come out of that Presence, we no longer have that grasp. But we all have to come back to our places where we are. Bhagavan says in Talks 68

The lady with him was most reluctant to leave the Master and return home. The Master said, “Think that you are always in my presence. That will make you feel right.”

But, the fact is, we are unable to feel that presence right here, why? because, to think about that presence here, seems a very tough! It (seems) tougher than relishing the taste (any vasana) here which is quickly available.

Another factor, on why we are unable to think that we are always near His presence, is because, we don't yet know really what His presence really is. The bliss than we experience at His Sannidhi is unconscious bliss, we are just so troubled by our life that when we go there, we are so tired and mentally fatigued that we simply are, like as though sleep on the Mother's lap. What we may do next time is consciously see for ourselves what that presence really is, so that it stays with us, strongly.

i conclude here as of now!

....some running musings... more later

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 05:00:12 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1656 on: May 04, 2012, 05:08:44 PM »
The non-dual experience will only be attained by those who have completely given up desires. For those with desires, it is extremely far away. Hence it is proper for those with desires to direct their desires towards God, who is desireless, so that through desire for God their deluding desires become extinct.
                                                                V. 149, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman

Establish yourself in the Self so that the vasanas, the impurities, are rooted out and destroyed. That is the true course of action.
                                                                V.93, Advice on Sadhana, Padamalai

Like cotton in afire, all vasanas in the hearts of those in whom the divine grace, the fire of jnana, has been kindled will be completely and simultaneously destroyed.
                                                                 V. 94, Advice on Sadhana, Padamalai


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri Nagaraj,

I am not able to keep myself abreast of the on-going discussion on the Forum on account of myriad worldly problems that have come my way. However, I shall try my best to remain in contact with the members as far as possible. Thank you. Anil


Dear sirs, Sri Bhagwan says that vasanas themselves are the mind, for the nature of thoughts arising in the mind is certainly in accordance with the old vasanas. So, Sri Bhagwan says in the essay version of ‘Who Am I ?’ that tendencies to indulge in sense perceptions, which have been recurring down the ages, rise in countless numbers like the wave of ocean, they will all perish as meditation on one’s real nature becomes more and more intense. Without giving room even to the doubting thought ‘Is it possible to destroy all these vasanas and remain as the Self alone ?’ one should persistently and tightly hold onto meditation on one’s real nature.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, yes, passions cannot be checked. If we check the passions, or control the vasanas, they may get suppressed for the time being, only to reappear again. If we satisfy them, they will again be satisfied for the time being, only to crave for satisfaction again. Sri Bhagwan has said that satisfying desires and thereby trying to root them out is like trying to quench fire by pouring kerosene.

The only way, therefore, says Sri Bhagwan, is to find the root of desire and thus remove it.

YES, THE RIGHT AND MOST APPROPRIATE WAY THEREFORE IS TO FIND THE ROOT OF ALL PASSIONS, THE SOUIRCE WHENCE THEY PROCEED, AND GET RID OF THAT.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

 

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1657 on: May 04, 2012, 05:41:24 PM »
Dear i,

Thank you for your response, i consciously opened this topic here so that i would get to read your response, as i did not want to miss your views as you generally you limit yourself to posting only to this topic - Self enquiry as taught by Bhagavan is enough, and, very rightfully so.

i absolutely understand how difficult it must be to keep yourself abreast with Atma vichara here, with several worldly problems. I WANT TO SAY, IT IS A SOURCE OF GREAT INSPIRATION FOR ONE AND ALL. Thank you.

yes, absolutely, completely giving up desires is sine qua non.

It is our direct understanding, that, we are toiling madly inorder to refuel the ever exhausting experience of Vasanas inorder to experience the happiness, but, there is no guarantee that we can keep doing this for ever! We may not have money, we cannot trust our limbs and body, they all may fail us, no matter how much investments and savings we may plan for, what is the point if we would be unable to eat some food to relish the bliss because of some disease? what is the point in saving the money to buy a nice car, what if we would be unable to drive it eventually?

So, therefore, it is not as though we are absolutely blind to these realities, just that we don't know the truth yet, in its pristine purity. That is why we are forced to depend on the following -

relationships
money
activities
keep ourselves occupied with something, etc....

Instead, now, having known this basic discernment that all these cannot last, if we strive even more to discern the truth, how much blessed we must be, how much blessed we must be?

It is forgetfulness that is to blame. when the vasanas come to attack us with excellent marketing and advertising trying to sell itself to us, instead of giving ourselves to that, instead of succumbing to it, we need to contemplate. This is the attempt.

Let us try to discern, the declaration of Sages, that what is That, that is above the experience of vasanas? what is That, what is That? that is not here? We would be unable to establish in the Self, unless we first intellectually understand that Ananda, which would instantaneously annihilate our dependence of vasanas, ie. (Like cotton in afire, all vasanas in the hearts of those in whom the divine grace, the fire of jnana, has been kindled will be completely and simultaneously destroyed.) and which would be a direct cause for a natural repose in Self. No effort, pure knowledge ie (Establish yourself in the Self so that the vasanas, the impurities, are rooted out and destroyed. That is the true course of action.)

Thanks to all :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 05:49:00 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1658 on: May 04, 2012, 06:29:38 PM »
Quote:
“Let us try to discern, the declaration of Sages, that what is That, that is above the experience of vasanas? what is That, what is That? that is not here? We would be unable to establish in the Self, unless we first intellectually understand that Ananda, which would instantaneously annihilate our dependence of vasanas, ie. (Like cotton in afire, all vasanas in the hearts of those in whom the divine grace, the fire of jnana, has been kindled will be completely and simultaneously destroyed.) and which would be a direct cause for a natural repose in Self. No effort, pure knowledge ie (Establish yourself in the Self so that the vasanas, the impurities, are rooted out and destroyed. That is the true course of action.”

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. Intellectual or intuitional, knowledge that one is not the mind, helps. So, by knowledge, desires or vasanas, in my view, can be rendered weaker. Desires and vasanas are in the mind. Therefore, knowledge that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts, knowledge that it is insentient and shines in the Light of the Self, helps one to control the mind.
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Sri Bhagwan says that every time one attempts satisfaction of a desire, the knowledge comes that it is better to desist. Repeated reminders of this kind weaken the desires in due course.

The more the desires are fulfilled, the deeper grows the samsakara. Therefore, they must become weaker and THAT WEAKNESS CAN BE BROUGHT ABOUT BY RESTRAINING ONESELF AND NOT BY LOSING ONESELF IN DESIRES.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil   

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1659 on: May 04, 2012, 07:03:45 PM »
Intellectual or intuitional, knowledge that one is not the mind, helps. So, by knowledge, desires or vasanas, in my view, can be rendered weaker. Desires and vasanas are in the mind. Therefore, knowledge that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts, knowledge that it is insentient and shines in the Light of the Self, helps one to control the mind.
Sri Bhagwan says that every time one attempts satisfaction of a desire, the knowledge comes that it is better to desist. Repeated reminders of this kind weaken the desires in due course.

The more the desires are fulfilled, the deeper grows the samsakara. Therefore, they must become weaker and THAT WEAKNESS CAN BE BROUGHT ABOUT BY RESTRAINING ONESELF AND NOT BY LOSING ONESELF IN DESIRES.

Yes, this is the way. Perhaps the only way! Constant remembrance of the 'knowledge' assimilated and holding on to it, without swerving for a slightest temptation. It is a razors journey, initially, until it becomes our nature!

The only way to win over vasanas is to engulf it knowledge, like how the sun is, the sun has never seen the darkness, it cannot even if it wills, and, even if it asks the darkness to stay a little while longer so that he can have a peak into what darkness really is. Brahmasri Nochur says, a person who wanted to find the darkness deep inside a cave, went with the quest with a lantern lamp, inside the dark cave, but where ever he went, there was no darkness!

Thank you. in Zen, this is what is called, mindfulness!

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 07:05:49 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1660 on: May 04, 2012, 08:11:12 PM »
Dear i,

with this peace, i was absolutely content. i was free for some time, so i came home, then due to the natural pre disposition, i switched on the television, then, i restrained myself, and switched off the television, then, not knowing what to do, i naturally went towards the books, that too, i felt is due to my pre disposition, and i restrained, and i just sat down for some time, remaining just as i am. There is a demand to keep myself occupied with something. there is a struggle from within to pass this moment, but, there is no passing this moment. And, here i am back to forum, letting out my energies in these very words!

The peace remains, but, what to do? with this moment, remains! Kindly share your thoughts.

Also, i want to add that i am not religiously trying to restrain myself, but, watching television, even reading books constantly is strain, no matter spiritual books. i am just going in to subtler details. It may not be required, but, just letting out these energies here.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:13:22 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1661 on: May 05, 2012, 08:50:04 AM »
Quote from Sri Nagaraj:
“The peace remains, but, what to do? with this moment, remains! Kindly share your thoughts.

Also, i want to add that i am not religiously trying to restrain myself, but, watching television, even reading books constantly is strain, no matter spiritual books. i am just going in to subtler details. It may not be required, but, just letting out these energies here.”

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

This moment! What moment? THERE IS NO MOMENT!
The event which happened one moment before is now considered by us to be past, and that which will happen one moment from now is considered to be future. Therefore, if we pay attention to the present moment that exists now, ignoring the past and the future moment, THEN EVEN ONE BILLIONTH OF THE SO-CALLED PRESENT MOMENT WILL BE FOUND TO BE EITHER PAST OR THE FUTURE. If even such subtlest (one billionth of the so called present moment) past and future moments are not attended to, and if we try to ascertain what is in between these two imaginable subtlest moments,  we will find that nothing can be found as an exact present moment. THUS THE CONCEPT OF THE PRESENT TIME ITSELF DISAPPEARS, BEING NON-EXISTENT, AND THE BEING, OR THE SELF-EXISTENCE—SATCHDANANDA—ALONE WILL SURVIVE.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, present out of the three times—past, future and present, and the first person out of the three persons—first, second and third person, are the root conceptions and Sri Bhagwan has taught that if they (first person or the present moment) are sought, these two basic conceptions will disappear, losing their existence. Only the Swarupa, or the Being, or the Screen, or the ever existing, one whole and infinite Self alone remains and shines.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, time is only an idea. There is only the Reality. Sri Bhagwan says that whatever one thinks it is, it looks like that. If we call it a moment, it is a moment, if we call it existence, it is existence, and so on. So, after calling it time, we divide it in years, months, days, hours, minutes and moments. HOWEVER, EACH SUCH CAALING OF THE REALITY IS PROMPTED BY A THOUGHTONLY.
Time posits a state, i.e. interval between two states, and one’s recognition of it as well as the changes that affect it. And a state can come into being only when it is called into existence by the mind. Time and space are therefore merely mental concepts but our Being lies beyond the mind.
Sri Bhagwan :
“There is no time for the Self. Time arises as an idea after the ego arises. But you are the Self beyond time and space; you exist even in the absence of time and space”   
                                                                          Talk—625

Dear Sri Nagaraj, coming to your question, I should say that our present moment disappears and Peace remains. The Self is the Swarupa, Self is the Peace. SRI BHAGWAN HAS TAUGHT THAT HOLDING ON TO THAT PEACE AND NEVER FORGETTING IT AND DOING AS THE DESTINY HAS ORDAINED FOR ONE IS THE RIGHT COURSE OF ACTION.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil




Nagaraj

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1662 on: May 05, 2012, 11:20:15 AM »
Dear i,

yes, it is so,

"If even such subtlest (one billionth of the so called present moment) past and future moments are not attended to, and if we try to ascertain what is in between these two imaginable subtlest moments,  we will find that nothing can be found as an exact present moment. THUS THE CONCEPT OF THE PRESENT TIME ITSELF DISAPPEARS, BEING NON-EXISTENT, AND THE BEING, OR THE SELF-EXISTENCE—SATCHDANANDA—ALONE WILL SURVIVE.

present out of the three times—past, future and present, and the first person out of the three persons—first, second and third person, are the root conceptions and Sri Bhagwan has taught that if they (first person or the present moment) are sought, these two basic conceptions will disappear, losing their existence. Only the Swarupa, or the Being, or the Screen, or the ever existing, one whole and infinite Self alone remains and shines."


yes, i do discern that time is merely an idea and there is really no time, no moment, though, i am able to see this, i wonder, and ask myself, what is this 'urge to do' anything for really?

yes, what Bhagavan has said strikes a chord from within -

“There is no time for the Self. Time arises as an idea after the ego arises. But you are the Self beyond time and space; you exist even in the absence of time and space”  Talk—625

i realise, that what we call our natural karmas, duties is really, factually very very little, once after fulfiling the karmic duty, when i remain, i observe that it is my predispositions which try to push me out, like i mentioned to you, in my previous post, i wanted to know what happened to Abdul Kalam, whether he has any chance to become the president, switched on the television, then i restrained, trying to assimilate the 'Jnana Bodham' mass of knowledge, then, i remain for some time, and then, i proceeded towards my books, where as well, i restrained, as what more is there to read? than this? and i remained, and, i remained for some moments, and it followed, that, knowledge is not something, that is to be practiced, like Japa, but, there was this urge to do, to act, but, there is no end, there is no desire to act, meaning, the urge to act doesn't seek fruit at all, but yet, i wonder, why this urge remains? which is why, i logged on to forum and wrote here, my previous post.

Bhagavan has said somewhere, தண்ணில் இருக்கும் சுகம் (Tannil irukkum sukham) the bliss of being as self within, as it is. That is to see subtly, it means, there is no urge here.  So to say, this is the primordial i the first i thought is originating here as some form of urge.

Even after realising that there is nothing to 'get' out of any act of this 'i' this first 'i' that is emerging, as some form of urge, itself is arising only out of predisposition alone, and, not out of ignorance, there is a burning sensation here, because, it knows, very clearly, there is no end to meet, no fruits to obtain by emerging, as 'i', it knows, when it says, 'urge' or the desire for emerging out is zeroed out, for it is never going to meet its end again, the urge is never ever again going to be fulfilled.

Slowly and steadily, it is being stripped naked, robbed off, all its possessions, power, will, everything, which is why, perhaps, there is this burning sensation, the first 'i' that is emerging is seeing its own insignificance anymore, it is no longer having the clout, which previous it was sporting about, with a sense of pride, its own possession. But, it is no longer relevant.

my question here, is, basically, to put it in a nutshell, it is பிடிவாதம் (Adamant) of the first primordial 'i' in giving up, completely. It itself knows very well, that it cannot last anymore, the darkness cannot touch the sun, but, like a small child, from whom we take away the chocolates, it remains so, with some kind of adamant, being unable to let go, even though IT VERY MUCH KNOWS.  Because, slowly, it realises that even the ground on which it is standing is no longer facilitating, it is hot, very hot, it can't even stand here, so, it is like, it has emerged, is unable to remain, as well, yet, it still remains, emerged, goes within, emerges, goes within, emerges, again and again and again. The emerged 'i' as well does not proceed further than from the position of emergence, for it knows very well, it is not going to meet its end, it will no longer get to fulfill its desires, yet, it is emerging, and dancing in hot plan, as the pan is so hot!

It is asking here, as follows -

How can 'i' or 'you' facilitate me a smooth death, ie merging to source. --> by this, i am not even literally asking for a solution, perhaps it is just a way of putting it, something like a metaphor or like an analogy. Just in some way, the expression is finding itself out! It is well aware, that there is really no death or merging, these are only the fears of the emerged 'i' which is truly non existent, Bhagavan goes further saying, enquire further where from this 'i' has emerged, and it will merge in the source. This cycle keeps happening again and again.

i am not sure, if i have written neatly, i hope, you would be able to get a grasp of what i am trying to convey :) thank you

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 11:40:20 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1663 on: May 05, 2012, 01:37:22 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Sri Bhagavan has explained this absence of second and third persons, once the first person's reality is discerned, in Verse
14 of Ulladu Narpadu.

The time concept that all the three times - present, past and future are only the present as it had
happened or as it would happen and one should only investigate the present without bothering about past or future.
This Sri Bhagavan has explained in Verse 15 of Ulladu Narpadu.

About the space aspect, He has said in Verse 16 that without we there is no time nor space. (He uses the words nAL and
nAdu for time and space). If we are body conscious, then both time and space would imprison us. If we transcend the body
consciousness, we would realize that only we are the Truth and all time and all space are one only.

These three verses form a group to highlight the interrelated subject of the three types of persons, the three times of time
and the space.

Arunachala Siva.           

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1664 on: May 05, 2012, 03:46:08 PM »

Quote from Sri Nagaraj:
“Even after realising that there is nothing to 'get' out of any act of this 'i' this first 'i' that is emerging, as some form of urge, itself is arising only out of predisposition alone, and, not out of ignorance, there is a burning sensation here, because, it knows, very clearly, there is no end to meet, no fruits to obtain by emerging, as 'i', it knows, when it says, 'urge' or the desire for emerging out is zeroed out, for it is never going to meet its end again, the urge is never ever again going to be fulfilled.

Slowly and steadily, it is being stripped naked, robbed off, all its possessions, power, will, everything, which is why, perhaps, there is this burning sensation, the first 'i' that is emerging is seeing its own insignificance anymore, it is no longer having the clout, which previous it was sporting about, with a sense of pride, its own possession. But, it is no longer relevant.

my question here, is, basically, to put it in a nutshell, it is பிடிவாதம் (Adamant) of the first primordial 'i' in giving up, completely. It itself knows very well, that it cannot last anymore, the darkness cannot touch the sun, but, like a small child, from whom we take away the chocolates, it remains so, with some kind of adamant, being unable to let go, even though IT VERY MUCH KNOWS. Because, slowly, it realises that even the ground on which it is standing is no longer facilitating, it is hot, very hot, it can't even stand here, so, it is like, it has emerged, is unable to remain, as well, yet, it still remains, emerged, goes within, emerges, goes within, emerges, again and again and again. The emerged 'i' as well does not proceed further than from the position of emergence, for it knows very well, it is not going to meet its end, it will no longer get to fulfill its desires, yet, it is emerging, and dancing in hot plan, as the pan is so hot!

It is asking here, as follows -

How can 'i' or 'you' facilitate me a smooth death, ie merging to source. --> by this, i am not even literally asking for a solution, perhaps it is just a way of putting it, something like a metaphor or like an analogy. Just in some way, the expression is finding itself out! It is well aware, that there is really no death or merging, these are only the fears of the emerged 'i' which is truly non existent, Bhagavan goes further saying, enquire further where from this 'i' has emerged, and it will merge in the source. This cycle keeps happening again and again.

i am not sure, if i have written neatly, i hope, you would be able to get a grasp of what i am trying to convey  thank you

Salutations to Bhagavan”

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Ji. Yes. Your above observation strikes a chord within me. This is, in my view, the predicament of a seeker who has, perforce, landed in no man’s land. For, on the one hand, as you said so beautifully that slowly, steadily, but surely, the ego is being stripped naked, it is being robbed of all its possessions, power, will, clout, everything that it held dear prior to taking the Great Suicidal Journey or the Quest, and on the other hand one is yet not able to taste the promised Bliss of the Self. Therefore, one is in anguish.

Dear Sri Nagaraj, all I can suggest at this stage is this that one needs to take one final plunge fearlessly, apparently into ‘Nothingness’ or ‘Abyss’, but truly into ONESELF -- ATMA-SWARUPA, which is Bliss Itself , and remain anchored there foe once and all. Then only we understand that there is no merging or death, these are only the fears of the truly non-existent, rising and falling ego-‘I’.     

Dear Sri Nagaraj, Sri Bhagwan says in Talk—28 that it is our pleasure that helps our growth—food, exercise, rest, and gregarious qualities. He says that our nature is primarily one, entire, blissful, but ego’s perfection is suddenly broken at a point and a want is felt, giving rise to get something or do something. When that want is satisfied the ego is happy and the original perfection is restored for the time being till its original perfection is broken again. This is the relative progress by satisfaction of want. Yes, we, the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana, by His Grace, have become aware that this cannot, at any cost, continue, at least for long and therefore it is high time to stop rising and returning back to rise again and return back and so on. It is high time to stop and rest in the Cool Shade of the Swarupa for ever.   

Dear Sri Nagaraj, we need to stop this relative progress by satisfaction of want and merge into the Self of the nature of Bliss and perfect Peace.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil