Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 1151120 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5940 on: May 15, 2019, 09:19:48 AM »
This afternoon, a visitor asked Bhagavan, "No doubt the method taught by Bhagavan is direct. But it is so difficult. We do not know how to begin it. If we go on asking, 'Who am I?', 'Who am I?' like a japa (a chant), with 'Who am I?' for mantra (sacred syllable), it becomes dull. In other methods, there is something preliminary and positive with which one can begin and then go step by step. But in Bhagavan's method, there is no such thing, and to seek the Self at once, though direct, is difficult."

Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi:  You yourself concede, it is the direct method. It is the direct and easy method. When going after other things, alien to us, is so easy, how can it be difficult for one to go to one's own Self? You talk of 'Where to begin'. There is no beginning and no end. You are yourself the beginning and the end. If you are here and the Self somewhere else, and you have to reach that Self, you may be told how to start, how to travel
and then how to reach. Suppose you who are now in Ramana Asramam ask, "I want to go to Ramana Asramam. How shall I start and how to reach it?", what is one to say? A man's search for the Self is like that. He is always the Self and nothing else. You say 'Who am I?' becomes a japa (a chant). It is not meant that you should go on asking 'Who am I?' In that case, thought will not so easily die. All japas (chants) are intended, by the use of one thought, the mantra (sacred syllable), to exclude all other thoughts. This, japa (chanting) eventually does for a man. All other thoughts, except the thought of the mantra (sacred syllable), gradually die and then even that one thought dies. Our Self is of the nature of japa. Japa (chanting) is always going on there. If we give up all thoughts, we shall find japa is always there without any effort on our part. In the direct method, as you call it, by saying ask yourself 'Who am I?' you are told to concentrate within yourself where the I-thought (the root of all other thoughts) arises. As the Self is not outside but inside you, you are asked to dive within, instead of going without, and what can be more easy than going to yourself? But the fact remains that to some this method will seem difficult and will not appeal. That is why so many different methods have been taught. Each of them will appeal to some as the best and easiest. That is according to their pakva or fitness. But to some, nothing except the vichara marga (Self-enquiry) will appeal. They will ask, "You want me to know or to see this or that. But who is the knower, the seer?" Whatever other method may be chosen, there will be always a doer. That cannot be escaped. Who is that doer must be found out. Till that, the sadhana (spiritual practice) cannot be ended. So eventually, all must come to find out 'Who am I?'. You complain that there is nothing preliminary or positive to start with. You have the 'I' to start with. You know you exist always, whereas the body does not exist always, e.g., in sleep. Sleep reveals that you exist even without a body. We identify the ?I? with a body, we regard the Self as having a body, and as having limits, and hence all our trouble. All that we have to do is to give up identifying our Self with the body, with forms and limits, and then we shall know ourselves as the Self that we always are.

The visitor further asked, "May I believe that there is nothing more to be known now, so far as the technique of sadhana (practice) is concerned, than that which has been written in your books from time to time? This question arises from the fact that, in all other systems of sadhana, the sadguru (Master) unfolds some secret technique of meditation to his disciple at the time of initiation or diksha, as it is called."

Bhagavan Sri Ramana: There is nothing more to be known than what you find in books. No secret technique. It is all an open secret, in this system.

Visitor: If, even after God-realisation, one has to pay attention to his bodily needs such as hunger, sleep, rest, heat and cold, of what use is Self-realisation? This state is something, which cannot be called completeness.

Bhagavan Sri Ramana: What will be the state after Self-realisation? Why should you bother about it now? Attain Self-realisation, and then see for yourself. But why go to the state of Self-realisation? Even now, are you without Self? And are all these things, eating, sleeping, etc., without or apart from the Self?
Source: Day By Day With Bhagavan
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 09:25:17 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

srkudai

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5941 on: May 15, 2019, 09:50:15 AM »
Dear Anil ji,
        I have a feeling that many books or writeups on what Ramana said are "colored" by the note taker's own notions and ideas.
probably because they took notes for themselves ?

I think Self Inquiry as explained by Ramana is extremely simple : manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat.

look for "I" and you find no "I" ... and in its place is found the Self, the I of the I. and there ends everything.
not a continuous search
not a long process.
and so he said "ati sulabham", its easy.

people , color it with lot of notions, ideas and start making it complex. i think japa is very complex when compared to seeing there is no I and thus no one to do japa ! unfortunately somewhere we have this tendency to complicate things and look at things from our own stand point ... what Bhagavan said is so simple that our complex mind's seem to miss it altogether.

Love!
Silence

atmavichar100

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5942 on: May 16, 2019, 06:17:41 AM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5943 on: May 16, 2019, 09:00:38 AM »
The 'I' which rises will also subside. That is the individual 'I' or the 'I'-concept. That which does not rise will not subside. It is and will be for ever. That is the universal 'I', the perfect 'I', or realisation of the Self.

At 5-30 p.m. the Swiss lady complains to Sri Bhagavan that she gets a headache if meditation be prolonged for some time.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi: If the meditator and meditation be understood to be the same there will be no headache or similar complaints.

Devotee: But they are different. How shall we consider them to be the same?

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: That is due to your outlook. There is only one and there are no differences. On meditation the relative consciousness will vanish. That is not annihilation; for Absolute Consciousness arises. The Bible itself says, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" . . . If you consider yourself to be the body there is some difficulty in understanding the statement. On the other hand if you know who you really are, the Kingdom of Heaven and all are included in your true Self. They are concepts arising after the ego has arisen. Drishtim jnanamayeem krtva pasyet Brahmamayam jagat (Direct your look within and make it absolute). With that absolute awareness realised, look without and you will realise the universe to be not apart from the realised Absolute. Because your outlook is externally directed you speak of a without. In that state you are advised to look within. This within is relative to the without you are seeking. In fact, the Self is neither without nor within. Speaking of Heaven one thinks of it as above or below, within or without, since one is accustomed to relative knowledge. One seeks only objective knowledge and hence these ideas. Really speaking there is neither up nor down, neither in nor out. If they were real they must be present in dreamless sleep also. For what is real must be continuous and permanent. Did you feel 'in' or 'out' in sleep? Of course not.

Devotee: I do not remember.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: If there was anything there that could be remembered. But you admit your existence then. The same Self is now speaking. The Self who was undifferentiated in sleep is differentiated in the present state, and sees the diversity. The Real Existence is the only One devoid of objective knowledge. That is absolute consciousness. That is the state of happiness, as admitted by all of us. That state must be brought about even in this waking state. It is called jagrat sushupti (waking sleep). That is Mukti (Liberation).

Talk--311
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:02:53 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5944 on: May 16, 2019, 03:12:46 PM »
Quote:
"I have a feeling that many books or writeups on what Ramana said are "colored" by the note taker's own notions and ideas.
probably because they took notes for themselves "


Dear Sri Udai, yes, 'many books or write-ups', on what Sri Bhagwan said, may be coloured, but the Works in which His Direct Teaching is depicted and contained, such as books 'Who Am I?', 'Upadesa Saram', Forty Verses On That Which Is (Ulladu Narpadu) which is considered to be the scripture of the Atma-vichara by many of His devotees, Self-enquiry, Spiritual Instruction, Talks, etc., are not, for their proofs were scrutinised and corrected by Sri Bhagwan Himself before they were sent for printing. Although His earnest devotees, in my view, may read many books and reminiscences, authored particularly by His old and new devotees, their sadhnana is possibly always based on what Sri Bhagwan has taught in the small booklet 'Who Am I?' which cannot be faulted on account of getting coloured by note takers.     


Quote:
"I think Self Inquiry as explained by Ramana is extremely simple : manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat."



Dear Sri Udai, yes, certainly, the Self-inquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan, is extremely simple as you said though it takes deliberate effort to turn around by 180 degrees, from the transient, ephemeral and unreal to That which alone is real. 


Quote:
"look for "I" and you find no "I" ... and in its place is found the Self, the I of the I. and there ends everything. not a continuous search not a long process. and so he said "ati sulabham", its easy.
people , color it with lot of notions, ideas and start making it complex. i think japa is very complex when compared to seeing there is no I and thus no one to do japa ! unfortunately somewhere we have this tendency to complicate things and look at things from our own stand point ... what Bhagavan said is so simple that our complex mind's seem to miss it altogether."



Dear Sri Udai, the import of the above quote alone has always been realm of contention between two of us. In my view, the essence of Sri Bhagwan's Teaching regarding the above is that it is so very good if we can at once be in the State of effortless and choiceless awareness, which is our Real Nature. But as Sri Bhagwan has mentioned, we can ourselves see and observe from our own and other practisers' account that one cannot reach it without effort, the effort of deliberate meditation or Enquiry. Hence the necessity of requisite sadhana as enjoined by one's Guru. 

Sri Bhagwan says that all the age-long vasanas carry the mind outward and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inward. For that, effort is necessary for most people.

"Of course everybody, every book says, 'Be quiet or still'. But it is not easy. That is why all this effort is necessary. Even if we find one who has at once achieved the mauna or Supreme state, you may take it that the effort necessary has already been finished in a previous life. So that, effortless and choiceless awareness is reached only after deliberate meditation."

 To drive the point home, Sri Bhagwan has quoted even from Sri Thaumanavar thus:
The gist is as follows. "Bliss will follow if you are still. But however much you may tell your mind about this truth, the mind will not keep quiet. It is the mind that won't keep quiet. It is the mind which tells the mind, 'Be quiet and you will attain bliss'."

Therefore, though all the scriptures have said it, though we hear about it every day from the great ones, and though even our Guru says it, we never are quiet, but stray into the world of maya and sense objects. That is why conscious, deliberate effort or meditation is required to attain that mauna state or the state of being quiet.

Dear friend, Sri Udai, in this connection I would like to reveal that I wished to convey to you exactly what our dear friend Sri Atmavichara posted in this thread today.

The only and the only course for us to follow today is to always remain aware consciously of 'I Am' all times and in all circumstances . No matter what we are doing, no matter where we are: to remain aware of the 'I Am' in the heart is the most effective sadhana to destroy the vasanas and attain the Real State of Effortless and Choiceless Awarness known as the Self-realization.

Thanks very much, dear Sri Udai.
Pranam, Anil

« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 04:24:08 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5945 on: May 16, 2019, 03:19:16 PM »
Dear Sri Atmavichara,

Thank You!

Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5946 on: May 17, 2019, 09:08:34 AM »
Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi: The fact is that you have no limitations in sleep and no question arises. Whereas now you put on limitations, identify yourself with the body and questions of this kind arise.

Devotee: I understand it, but do not realise it (i.e. unity in variety).

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Because you are in variety, you say you understand unity - that you have flashes, etc., remember things, etc.; you consider this variety to be real. On the other hand Unity is the reality, and the variety is false. The variety must go before unity reveals itself - its reality. It is always real. It does not send flashes of its being in this false variety. On the contrary, this variety obstructs the truth.

Then some others pursued the conversation.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Removal of ignorance is the aim of practice, and not acquisition of Realisation. Realisation is ever present, here and now. Were it to be acquired anew, Realisation must be understood to be absent at one time and present at another time. In that case, it is not permanent, and therefore not worth the attempt. But Realisation is permanent and eternal and is here and now.

Devotee: Grace is necessary for the removal of ignorance.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Certainly. But Grace is all along there. Grace is the Self. It is not something to be acquired. All that is necessary is to know its existence. For example, the sun is brightness only. He does not see darkness. Whereas others speak of darkness fleeing away on the sun approaching. Similarly, ignorance also is a phantom and not real. Because of its unreality, its unreal nature being found, it is said to be removed.

Again, the sun is there and also bright. You are surrounded by sunlight. Still if you would know the sun you must turn your eyes in his direction and look at him. So also Grace is found by practice alone although it is here and now.

Talk--354


srkudai

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5947 on: May 17, 2019, 09:58:08 AM »
Dear Anil ji,
         I agree this is one point of contention between the two of us :

1. self inquiry is to see that there is no "I" and thus just be --- this is my view.
2. you do not disagree with (1) but only add that it is not easy to simply remain thus... for support we need to constantly be aware of the sense of "I AM" within.

lets have a sane discussion around this ... a matured discussion that can be very useful for both of us as well as anyone reading / watching this.

note that (1) is also effort. Every time i find myself using effort, i use the same effort to letgo the one who is putting in effort and just be.

This is how i understand self inquiry. it is a practice... but the practice is again and again resolving the "I" in big "I" , and remaining effortless. To put it in the language of ashtavakra gita :

यदि देहं पृथक् कृत्य चिति विश्राम्य तिष्ठसि।
अधुनैव सुखी शान्तो बन्धमुक्तो भविष्यसि॥१-४॥

[if you detach yourself from body (that includes the sense of i) and remain relaxed in Awareness(this is the essence).
 immediately you shall experience sukham, extreme satisfaction, and peace , shantam ... and be free of all bondage]
body includes the subtle body , ie, mind or sense of i.
again and again doing this ... is my self inquiry understanding.

concentration on "I AM" , is still effort, so i even dissolve that.
yes, everything i see myself getting into some effort or else, i immediately first withdraw to "I AM" and only then it is possible to dissolve that "I" ... now my stay is relaxed awareness... no me state ... where i do not concentrate anymore. for me "I AM" is a step towards that relaxed awareness ... stay is in awareness , not at "I AM".

What do you think about this.
Thanks
Udai

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5948 on: May 18, 2019, 08:55:08 AM »
"Where are others apart from one's own Self?" asked the Master (Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi).

Mr. Raghaviah: How shall we correlate the higher experience with the lower experience (meaning spiritual experience with mundane affairs)?

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: There is only one experience. What are the worldly experiences but those built up on the false 'I'? Ask the most successful man of the world if he knows his Self. He will say 'No'. What can anyone know without knowing the Self? All worldly knowledge is built upon such a flimsy foundation.

Mr. Ramamurthi: How to know the 'Real I' as distinct from the 'false I'.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Is there anyone who is not aware of himself? Each one knows, but yet does not know, the Self. A strange paradox.

The Master added later, "If the enquiry is made whether mind exists, it will be found that mind does not exist. That is control of mind. Otherwise, if the mind is taken to exist and one seeks to control it, it amounts to mind controlling the mind, just like a thief turning out to be a policeman to catch the thief, i.e., himself. Mind persists in that way alone, but eludes itself."
T-43
...
A visitor asked: The path of realisation is difficult. Worldly matters are easy of understanding, whereas this is not.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Yes. The mind always seeks external knowledge, leaving aside its own inner knowledge.
Talk 45.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 08:57:32 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5949 on: May 18, 2019, 02:20:55 PM »
Quote from Sri Udai:
"1. self inquiry is to see that there is no "I" and thus just be --- this is my view.
2. you do not disagree with (1) but only add that it is not easy to simply remain thus... for support we need to constantly be aware of the sense of "I AM" within."


Dear Sri Udai, Self-enquiry, to me, is asking 'Who Am I?', going deeper, reaching the Source, to be the Source-aware and remaining Source (Self)-aware for as long as possible. As soon as we reach the Source, 'I'-thought or the ego disappears and what remains is the Self. Why remain Self-aware, that is, to remain as we are?

What are the obstacles which hinder the Realization of the Self? They are the habits of the mind, entrenched as predispositions (vasanas or samskaras) in the heart.  Distractions are the result of these inherited tendencies. Sri Bhagwan has taught clearly that the thoughts are only vasanas (predispositions), accumulated in innumerable births before. Their annihilation is the goal, for the state free from vasanas is alone the Primal and Eternal State of Purity. 

Sri Bhagwan says, "So long as predispositions remain latent in the mind, realisation cannot be achieved. Sastra learning is itself a vasana. Realisation is only in Samadhi".


Dear Sri Udai, only intellectual understanding is not enough.  Even if we become Source-aware, it simply cannot remain unshaken so long as there are latent tendencies entrenched in the heart, for unless they cease to exist, there will always be doubt and confusion. There is no doubt about this.  Sri Bhagwan says that all efforts are only directed at destroying doubt and confusion. Therefore, their root, which are samskaras , must be cut. These can be rendered ineffective by maintaining Self-attention or the Source-awareness or holding or concentrating on 'I AM', that is, remaining as we are.  Vasanas or the predispositions can be obliterated by concentration on that which is free from vasanas, and yet is their core.  Hence the necessity to concentrate on 'I AM' for as long as possible. Duration is bound to increase as the mind is strengthened and its ability to concentrate accordingly goes on increasing.



Quote:
"concentration on "I AM" , is still effort, so i even dissolve that.
yes, everything i see myself getting into some effort or else, i immediately first withdraw to "I AM" and only then it is possible to dissolve that "I" ... now my stay is relaxed awareness... no me state ... where i do not concentrate anymore. for me "I AM" is a step towards that relaxed awareness ... stay is in awareness , not at "I AM"."



Dear Sri Udai, I wonder as to who dissolves what in whom. Sri Bhagwan says that 'I AM' is God, 'I AM' is the Realization. To pursue the Clue till Realization is Vichara. Vichara is the process as well as the Goal also. So, 'I AM' is the Goal and the final Reality, to hold it with effort is Vichara, and when spontaneous and natural it is Realization.  And Lo! Here you are who dissolve even 'I AM' and remain as the Unmanifest Reality!! Remember, pure 'I AM' is on a different pedestal, the very Flagship of the Reality as Sri Nisaragadatta Maharaj said.
So, it seems to me that your process is only intellectual, for this 'I' (ego or the 'I'-conceit) can eliminate everything but not itself, for this 'i' is not independent of the Self. Therefore, to eliminate the false, impermanent  and appearing and disappearing little self,  That (Source or the Self) which alone is eternal and permanent must be reached and held.  Then only this little 'i' will dissolve or disappear, and then only the Self shines forth of its own accord, unobstructed.

Thanks very much.
Pranam
 Anil

« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 04:21:19 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5950 on: May 19, 2019, 08:41:46 AM »
Mrs. Dhar: I form part of the creation and so remain dependent. I cannot solve the riddle until I become independent. Yet I ask Sri Bhagavan, should He not answer the question for me?

Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Yes. It is Bhagavan that says, "Become independent and solve the riddle yourself. It is for you to do it." Again: where are you now that you ask this question? Are you in the world, or is the world within you? You must admit that the world is not perceived in your sleep although you cannot deny your existence then. The world appears when you wake up. So where is it? Clearly the world is your thought. Thoughts are your projections. The 'I' is first created and then the world. The world is created by the 'I' which in its turn rises up from the Self. The riddle of the creation of the world is thus solved if you solve the creation of the 'I'. So I say, find your Self.

Again, does the world come and ask you "Why do 'I' exist? How was 'I' created?" It is you who ask the question. The questioner must establish the relationship between the world and himself. He must admit that the world is his own imagination. Who imagines it? Let him again find the ?I? and then the Self.

Moreover, all the scientific and theological explanations do not harmonise. The diversities in such theories clearly show the uselessness of seeking such explanations. Such explanations are purely mental or intellectual and nothing more. Still, all of them are true according to the standpoint of the individual. There is no creation in the state of realisation. When one sees the world, one does not see oneself. When one sees the Self, the world is not seen. So see the Self and realise that there has been no creation.

The lady being laid up is unable to go to the hall and so feels unhappy that, though near, she cannot go into the hall. This was mentioned to Sri Bhagavan.

He (Sri Bhagwan) said, "Well, thinking like this keeps her always in the Presence. This is better than remaining in the hall and thinking of something else."

Talk--455
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 08:44:55 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5951 on: May 20, 2019, 08:52:51 AM »
Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Can you stop the wars? He who made the world will take care of it.

Devotee: God made the world and He is not responsible for the present condition of the world. It is we who are responsible for the present state.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Can you stop the wars or reform the world?

Devotee: No.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Then why do you worry yourself about what is not possible for you? Take care of yourself and the world will take care of itself.

Devotee: We are pacifists. We want to bring about Peace.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Peace is always present. Get rid of the disturbances to Peace. This Peace is the Self. The thoughts are the disturbances. When free from them, you are Infinite Intelligence, i.e., the Self. There is Perfection and Peace.

Devotee: The world must have a future.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Do you know what it is in the present? The world and all together are the same, now as well as in the future.

Devotee: The world was made by the operation of Intelligence on ether and atoms.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: All of them are reduced to Isvara and Sakti. You are not now apart from Them. They and you are one and the same Intelligence.

After a few minutes one lady asked: "Do you ever intend to go to America?"

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: America is just where India is (i.e., in the plane of thought).

Talk?480

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5952 on: May 21, 2019, 08:54:45 AM »
Devotee: "Not this - not this". That is the teaching to the seeker. He is told that the Self is Supreme. How is it to be found?

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: The Self is said to be the hearer, thinker, knower, etc. But that is not all. It is also described as the ear of ear, the mind of mind, etc.; and by what means to know the knower?

Devotee: But this does not say what the Self is.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: "Not this - not this".

Devotee: It only negates.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: (Silence).

The devotee complains that the Self is not pointed out.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: A man wants to know what he is. He sees animals and objects around him. He is told: "You are not a cow, not a horse, not a tree, not this, not that, and so on". If again the man asks saying "You have not said what I am", the answer will be, "It is not said you are not a man". He must find out for himself that he is a man. So you must find out for yourself what you are. You are told, "You are not this body, nor the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor anything you can think of; find out what truly you are". Silence denotes that the questioner is himself the Self that is to be found. In a svayamvara (choosing of groom by a girl of her choice from a set of suitable candidates-anil) the maiden goes on saying ?no? to each one until she faces her choice and then she looks downwards and remains silent.
Talk--620
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 08:57:24 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5953 on: May 22, 2019, 08:46:27 AM »
Sri Annamalai Swami: I should always try to think I am That.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Why should one think "I am That"? He is That only. Does a man go on thinking that he is a man?

Mr. Anantachari: The belief "I am a man" is so deep that we cannot help thinking so.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Why should you think "I am a man?" If you are challenged you may say "I am a man". Therefore the thought - "I am a man"--is called up when another thought, say "I am an animal", protrudes itself. Similarly, the thought I am That is necessary only so long as the other thought I am a man persists.

Devotee: The thought "I am a man" is so firm that it cannot he got rid of.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Be your true Self. Why should you think "I am a man?"

Devotee: The thought "I am a man" is so natural.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Not so. On the other hand "I am" is natural. Why do you qualify it with "a man"?

Devotee: ?I am a man? is so obvious whereas "I am That" is not understood by us.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: You are neither That nor This. The truth is "I am". "I AM that I AM" according to the Bible also. Mere Being is alone natural. To limit it to "being a man" is uncalled for.

Devotee: (Humorously) If votes be taken the majority will be on my side. (Laughter)

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: I cast my vote also on your side (Laughter). I say also "I am a man": but I am not limited to the body. It is IN ME. That is the difference.

Someone: The limitation (upadhi) of being a man cannot be got rid of.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: How were you in deep sleep? There was no thought of being a man.

Another: So, the state of sleep must be brought about even when one is awake.

Bhagwan Sri Ramana: Yes. It is jagrat-sushupti (Waking Sleep).

Talk--601
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 08:50:37 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5954 on: May 23, 2019, 08:55:06 AM »
Mrs. Dhar: Sri Bhagavan advises practice of enquiry even when one is engaged in external activities. The finality of such enquiry is the realisation of the Self and consequently breath must stop. If breath should stop, how will work go on or, in other words, how will breath stop when one is working?

Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi: There is confusion between the means and the end (i.e., sadhana and sadhya). Who is the enquirer? The aspirant and not the siddha (the Realized). Enquiry signifies that the enquirer considers himself separate from enquiry.

So long as this duality lasts the enquiry must be continued, i.e., until the individuality disappears and the Self is realised to be only the eternal Be-ing (including enquiry and enquirer).
The Truth is that Self is constant and unintermittent Awareness. The object of enquiry is to find the true nature of the Self as Awareness. Let one practise enquiry so long as separateness is perceived.
If once realisation arises there is no further need for enquiry. The question will also not arise. Can awareness ever think of questioning who is aware? Awareness remains pure and simple.
The enquirer is aware of his own individuality. Enquiry does not stand in the way of his individual awareness; nor does external work interfere with such awareness. If work, seemingly external, does not obstruct the individual awareness, will the work, realised to be not separate from the Self, obstruct the uninterrupted Awareness of the Self, which is One without a second and which is not an individual separate from work?
Talk--454