Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 757310 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #990 on: June 12, 2011, 05:49:51 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Puja is outside with hands. Japa is within lips. Dhyana is within oneself. Dhyana  therefore is the highest, says Sri Bhagavan in
Upadesa Undiyar.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #991 on: June 13, 2011, 07:10:22 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan says in Verse-6 of the Upadesa Saram that Silent meditation , in the mind, is higher than the best devotional praise, or the uttering of the sacred names, loudly or softly.

Dear sir, that is the scale of excellence pertaining to various spiritual practices. Sri Bhagwan never denied any path.  His Path is inclusive of all paths. However, what Sri Bahgwan says in the cited verse is the plain truth.

An internalised mind is essential for Vichara. Vichara is the Practice as well as the Goal. Sri Bhagwan says that ‘I Am’ is the Realisation and the Goal and pursue the clue till Realisation is Vichara. And Vichara must go on wherever I am.

Thank you so much, sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #992 on: June 13, 2011, 07:16:49 AM »
Dear Devotees,

It is settled for once and all that ‘I’, the individual, the person, is nothing but a mere thought. It is like a picture, an image, which appears and disappears in the Consciousness just like a wave in a body of water or in the ocean. What happens is this : I am the Consciousness. A wave comes. I am now a mere wave. The wave is gone. I am again Consciousness so long as yet another wave does not arise in me and I am a mere wave again. Therefore, what we know about ourselves, about others, about the world, everything that we know are mere thoughts. Are they not ? Thoughts, emotions, feelings, and perceptions come and go away as fast as they come. True ’I’ can never be an object of knowledge or perception. That which remains over when nothing is perceived is the Illumination, the Presence. That we are, the Presence, the Illumination in which all perceptions arise and subside. 

Dear Devotees, now we try to understand Sri Bhagwan’s oft-repeated Statement : “The Self is always realised”. A devotee says, “ I am ignorant. I am still a worldly person. I am not realised, etc.”  The most vital point to understand, in my view, is the question itself: “How do we know that we are not realised?” Dear devotees, I am stressing because I feel that understanding of this vital question may act like dynamite. WHO SAYS SO INDDED THAT I AM NOT REALISED ? Can an insentient thought ever know “I AM” ? It is a mere thought in US (‘I’) Itself which says I am not realised. “I AM NOT REALISED" IS A MERE THOUGHT IN ME, OR ‘I’.  Even when the thought comes that ‘I am not realised’, I am the Self. Who am I to say that the Self, or ‘I’ is not realised ?

Dear devotees, strenuous spiritual sadhana is performed to only realise that there are not two selves but there is One Self and that is the Existence- consciousness Itself. The answer to the question ‘Who am I ?’ is US OURSELVES WHICH IS ONE. However, Sri Bahgwan says that no suggestive reply should be given, for any reply suggested will only be mental. When the ego-I and its thoughts disappear by Enquiry, one who launched the Enquiry is nowhere to be found. One is no more. One is the Self. One is the Stillness Itself. One is pure Silence—everywhere, at all times, in all states. It does not admit of a thought. It does not admit of a word.

Therefore, I am Pure Stillness. Everything is occurring in this Stillness. I, you, we, he , she, they, it, this and that are happening or occurring in the Stillness only. These things come and go. Stillness remains, ever, as IT IS. THAT STILLNESS I AM. The one who saw a nightmare in a dream is gone on waking. The one who is dreaming this world and its myriad phenomena will one day similarly be gone on Realisation and he will know that I am ever  as ‘I am’.  Nothing ever became of ‘I am’. Stillness. Silence. Or Presence. Or Illumination. I am the Centre, the Heart. Therefore, it is ‘I’ who is the meaning and substance of all things. WHEN ALL THINGS DISAPPEAR BY ‘WHO AM I ?’ ENQUIRY, THE SELF KNOWS THE SELF. 

Thank you,
   Anil     


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #993 on: June 13, 2011, 07:12:18 PM »
‘I do not know myself’, ‘I have known myself’—to say thus is to invite ridicule. Why ? Are there two selves in order to make one’s self the object ? The experience of all is that it is one.
                                                                                                 V. 33, ULLadu Narpadu

 Dear Devotees,

That which Is does not say ‘I’. The One who has realised His Self does not say I am realised. An ‘I’ does not rise in Him to say I have not realised. Self is One even from the stand-point of the Ignorant. Therefore, to say either that I know myself, or I do not know myself, is to invite ridicule and is cause for laughter. It is contradictory to say ‘I know myself’ or ‘I’ do not know myself. There are not two selves; one a subject and the other an object so that the subject ‘I’ know or do not know the object myself. One Self knows and the other one is either known, or unknown. 

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan says that experience of all is that it is one. Can I admit I am two ? How do we experience ourselves even while we are ignorant ? Sri Bhagwan says in the cited Verse that everyone experiences as ‘I am one’.

Thank you,
     Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #994 on: June 13, 2011, 07:25:42 PM »


Dear Anil,

Nice. What you have quoted is Verse 33 of ULLadu Narpadu.

"To say 'I do not know myself' or 'I have known myself' is a cause
for  laughter. What? Are there two selves - one to be known by
the other? There is but One, the Truth of the experience of all."

A similar idea, but connecting the world - has been given by Sri Bhagavan, in Verse 18 of the same work.

"To those who do not know and to those who who do, the world is real. But to those who do not know, Reality is bounded by the world. While to those who know, Reality shines formless - as te ground of the world. Such is the difference between them.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #995 on: June 14, 2011, 05:38:58 AM »
The body is within the Self. And yet
One thinks one is inside the inert body,
Like some spectator who supposes
That the screen on which the picture is thrown
Is within the picture.
                                           Verse—3, Five Verses On the Self
While the body is [in fact] in Self, one who thinks that Self [or Heart] is within the insentient body is like one who thinks that the screen—which is the substratum of that cinema picture—is contained within the picture.
                                                       V. 262, GVK, Tr. by Sri Sadhu Om

Dear Devotees,

Similar is our case. Picture is projected on the screen. Will it not be a case of extraordinary foolishness if a spectator thinks that the screen is contained within the picture which is what appears to the eyes of the spectators ? Screen is real. Picture is unreal.  HOW CAN BE THE REAL CONTAINED IN THE UNREAL ? Can the unreal picture contain the real screen ?

The All-pervading Self or Brahman alone exists. The Self contains all that are or are appearing or not appearing. All these appearances are mental and therefore unreal. Body is also a mental creation and is therefore unreal. We say that we are rational. Do we not ? But, nevertheless, we think that the Self is within the insentient body. THE REAL IS CONTAINED WITHIN THE UNREAL !

Sri Sadhu Om , while commenting on the Verse-262, GVK, says that when a pot made of ice is immersed in the sea, can we say that the water is contained only within the pot ? Water is everywhere, inside and outside of the pot as well as within the pot. Similarly, a Realised One knows that only Self exists. Nothing other than the Self has any existence whatever. Therefore, there is no question of the Self existing inside or outside the body. ‘Inside’ and ‘outside’  have any meaning with respect to the body only. When the body itself is unreal, there cannot be assigned any reality to inside and outside. So limitation of inside and outside is not valid from the perspective or stand point of Truth. However, Even when we are not realised, ‘I’, the Self, alone exists as Existence-Consciousness Whose very Nature is Bliss. STILLNESS OR THE SILENCE IS THE GATEWAY TO THE OCEAN OF NECTAR AND BLISS WHICH IS OUR SWARUPA.

Thank you,
    Anil     
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #996 on: June 14, 2011, 05:10:42 PM »
Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bahgwan says, “To those who do not know and to those who do, the world is real.”

But a Jnani’s Expeience of the world is infinitely different from an ajnani’s experience. But, obviously, to a Jnani as well as to an ajnani, the world is real. An ajnai’s real world comprises of names and forms, ‘this’ differentiation, where as a Jnani experiences the world to be undifferentiated Existence-Consciousness and Bliss—nameless and formless. Therefore, to both, the world is real but with an infinite difference. Ajnani knows this is the rope and there is nothing to get frightened. An ajnani is, nevertheless, frightened. Frightened because he knows that the snake is real. So, to both, the world is real. Experience and feeling of both is that the world is real. The feeling of the reality of the world is common to both of them.

Dear sir, only a Jnani who is One with the Consciousness of the Self on the one hand, and who is aware of the world on the other, can understand the meaning and implication of the statement ‘The world is real’.     

Thank you,
    Anil


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #997 on: June 14, 2011, 05:51:32 PM »


Dear Anil,

This is an important statement of Sri Bhagavan. He used to quote
Sri Sankara who had said.  Brahamn Satyam - Jagat mithya; Jagat
Brahman.  What Sri Bhagavan has said is also the same.

The ignorant considers the world as real, and he has to be constantly
told that the world is seemingly real but unreal. On attainment of Jnana, the ignorant who sees the world as Self, knows that the world
as the Self is real.

Sri Bhagavan also used to say, the world is Maya, but she becomes Suddha Maya upon realization.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #998 on: June 14, 2011, 06:44:28 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
Ji. Yes. thank you so much for a very nice posr, sir. I am aware that Sri Bhagwan used to say that people see only first two lines, i.e. 'Jagat mithyam, Brahma satyam' and criticise the Acharya. In the third line of the Verse, the Acharya says that jivas and Brahma are One.

Dear sir, in the context of the ongoing discussion, I wish to cite the Verse-4 of the ULLadu Narpadu and verse 50 and Verse 52 from GVK in my next post. I have just completed a journey and reached Patna in Bihar. So, I am not feeling like typing and posting right now. However, I wish to discuss with you the above mentioned Verses  with you tomorrow.

Regards,
   Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #999 on: June 15, 2011, 10:48:49 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bahgwan often repeated that liberation is our Real Nature, that we are all the time realised. There is no time when we are not realised. This is, in my view, an outstanding Statement made more than once by Sri Bahgwan. As Sri Subramanian sir mentioned in his post, Sri Bhagwan says that we are acting. We are imagining that we are ignorant limited creatures, that we are bound. Therefore, to be free, we do sadhana and make various strenuous efforts, perform various kinds of worship and anushthanas etc., while we are all the while free.

Sri Bhagwan says that this can be understood only when we reach that stage. He says that when we reach that stage, we will be surprised that we were franticall trying to attain only that which we have always been and are. We  will realise that we have not moved an inch, that we have not made any strenuous efforts, that we have not performed any worship etc. We are always as we are.

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan famously illustrated this very point by the simile of the dream as follows
A man goes to sleep in Sri Bahgwan’s Hall. He dreams that he has gone on a long world tour. In dream, he is roaming over hills and mountains, forest and deserts, sea and different countries, spread  far and wide across different continents. After being worn out due to vast travelling undertaken, he returns to this country after many years. Remember, all events are  happening in the dream only. So, after many years on the world tour, he returns to this countries, reaches Tiruvannamalai, enters Sri Ramanasramam and walks into Sri bahgwan’s Hall. Suppose just as he enters the August Hall, he wakes up from the dream. Lo ! He find that he has not moved an inch but was sleeping all the while where he lay in the Hall. He finds that he had not gone on a strenuous world tour. He did not make any effort at all to reach the Hall. He has always been in the Hall only. All that he saw was a mere dream.

Dear devotees, so also, Sri Bhagwan says that this waking state is an another long dream. Yes, Sri Bhagwan says that only difference between dream state and waking state is that the former is shorter than the later. But what to talk of time ! Maya can show a second as an aeon and an aeon as a second. It is only Maya’s doing that reel-like-life is taken for real.

Thank you,
    Anil           

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1000 on: June 15, 2011, 05:27:37 PM »
If one’s self is a form, then it follows that the world and the Supreme will have form also. If one’s self is not a form, who is there to see their forms, and how? Is there anything that is seen whose nature is other than that of the eye [that sees]? That eye is in reality the Self, the infinite eye.
                                                                            Verse-4, GVK,
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

 The above Verse has been cited here from the GVK, edited by Sri David Godman ( page-27). The foot-note says that the Verse has been translated by Sri Robert Butler. I discerned a difference in the translation of the Verse from the translation of the Verse included in the ‘The Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi’. Both translations have four lines. The meaning and implication of the first two lines and the last lines in both translations are almost the same. However, the third line in the Collected Works says “Without the eye, can there be sight or spectacle ?” The cited translation here by Sri Robert Butler says “ Is there anything that is seen whose nature is other than that of the eyes that sees?” The translation by Sri Robert Butler, in my view, has far deeper meaning and implication.

Dear sir, In the light of the above, I request you to kindly enlighten me as to which one is closer to Sri Bhagwan’s Original Composition In Tamizh in meaning and import ?

Thank you,
  Anil     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1001 on: June 16, 2011, 09:55:39 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan says, “The Ultimate and Absolute Truth is that there is no creation and no dissolution. There is no bondage, no one doing spiritual practices, no one seeking spiritual liberation, and no one is liberated. One who is established in the Self sees this by his knowledge of reality”.

The above is what is known as the Ajata vada, or the ‘Doctrine of the Non-creation’. Sri Bhagwan, in the ‘Day by Daywith Bhagwan’, on page 174, says:
The Ajata doctrine says, ‘Nothing exists except the one reality. There is no birth or death, no projection or drawing in, no sadhaka, no mumukshu, no mukta, no bondage, no liberation. The one unity alone exists ever’.

But it is hard indeed to grasp the Ultimate Truth straight away in the beginning and that is understandable.
So, one finding it difficult to gasp this truth may ask, How can we ignore this solid world we see all around us ?’ Sri Bhagwan says that to such persons ‘Drishti-Srishti vada is addressed. According to this vada or the argument, one first creates out of his mind and then sees what his mind itself has created. So, all that one sees depends on the seer. Apart from the seer there is no seen.  Dream experience is pointed out to such persons.

Sri Bhagwan says that there will be some who cannot grasp even this truth and may further argue, “ The dream experience is so short, while the world always exists. The dream experience was limited to me. But the world is felt and seen not only by me, but by so many”.
To Such persons, ‘Srishti-Dristi  vada or the ‘Doctrine of Creation, is addressed. Yes. Sri Bhagwan says that such persons are told, yes,  God first created such and such thing out of such and such elements and then something else, and then something else and so on and so forth. God created all geography, all maps, all sciences, stars, planets, and rules governing them etc. Yes, God created all these and you see them.

Dear devotees, the Great Poet and Bhakta Sri Muruganar sings, “The deeper intention of the scriptures in describing the sequence of creation in different ways is not to proclaim the correct  theory of creation but to promote enquiry into the Supreme Reality that is the primal source of creation. This is the real purport behind the scriptures that describe the details of creation”. ( V. 102, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman)

Therefore, dear devotees, the true purpose behind the lengthy description of the sequence  of creation in the scriptures, as Sri Bhagwan has Himself affirmed on several occasions, is only to enable the ENQUIRY to arise in those who have matured and are ready to know the Absolute Truth of the Core of their Existence, their Swarupa.

Thank you,
   Anil     
       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1002 on: June 16, 2011, 03:55:16 PM »
What is grace and what reality? What is tapas and what is Sivam? What is spiritual practice, and what truth? It is the ‘I’ which shines as pure knowledge.
                                                                                               V. 444, Sri Ramana Anubuti

What is that all encompassing continuum within which all manifestation takes place, but which remains ever untouched by the objects which appear within it ? What is the authentic reality within which there is nothing in truth which is not itself ? it is the pure ‘I’ which shine as all conquering supreme Knowledge.
                                                                                                  V. 449, Sri Ramana Anubuti

Pure ‘I’ is the Supreme Authentic Reality within which everything is ‘I’ Itself.
It is Pure ‘I’ which manifests as tapas and Sivam.
It is Pure ‘I’ which manifests as day and night, waking, dream, and sleep.
It is Pure ‘I’ which manifests as time and space, cause and effect.
It is Pure ‘I’ which manifests as senses and organs of senses, and as the mind and as thought.
It is Pure ‘I’ which shines as Pure knowledge when the ego-mind is merged into the Supreme Reality.

Thank you,
   Anil 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1003 on: June 17, 2011, 08:42:25 AM »
Devotee : If the entire universe is of the form of the mind, then does it not follow that the universe is an illusion ? If that be the case, why is the creation of the universe mentioned in the Vedas ?
Sri Bhagwan : There is no doubt that the universe is the merest illusion. The principal purport of the Vedas is to make known the true Brahman, after showing the universe to be false. It is for this reason that the Vedas admit the creation of the world and not for any other reason. Moreover, for the less qualified persons creation is taught, that is the phased evolution of prakriti, mahat tattva …etc., from Brahman; while for the more qualified simultaneous creation is taught, that is, that this world arose like a dream on account of not knowing oneself as the Self.
                                                                                                            Self-enquiry, P-10&11

Dear Devotees,

Therefore, the Vedas describe the theory of creation in elaborate details only to show somehow or the other the illusory nature of the universe and at the same time indicating and showing the True Nature of the Brahman. The universe is unreal and is the merest illusion. The phased evolution of the prakriti, external as well as internal, from the Brahman, is not ultimately true. Srimad Bhagavad Gita says that the unreal has no being, no existence. Lord Sri Krishna also first taught only ‘ajata’ to Sri Arjuna in the beginning. But it was only because of Sri Arjuna’s inability to gasp the Highest Truth, that Lord Sri Krishna taught other doctrines.

Dear devotees, it follows that the ‘ajata’ i.e.’Nothing exists except the One Reality, or the Brahman, or the Self’ alone is ‘Absolute Truth’. Therefore, this alone is our Goal. Drishti-Srishti vada or the Srishti-Drishti vada ( Theory of creation) are only merest descriptions to satisfy the agitated mind in the beginning and to show that the universe and the phenomena are fictions as in dreams.

“Though Guru Ramana, who appeared as God incarnate, expounded numerous doctrines, as befitted the different states and beliefs of the various devotees who sought refuge at his feet, you should know that what we have heard him affirm to intimate devotees in private, as an act of grace, as his own true experience, is only the doctrine of ajata [non-creation].
                                                                                            V. 100, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Thank you,
   Anil     
                                                                                                                       



 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #1004 on: June 17, 2011, 12:02:28 PM »
Dear Devotees,

Our True Blissful Self is full of Existence. Our Solid Existence is the Joy of Awareness.
Awareness alone is joy!
Awareness alone Is. Rest everything is merest illusion in It.
I, minus attributes, am Awareness only.
Brahman, minus attributes, is Awareness only.
You, minus attributes, are awareness only.
Heart, Sri Bhagwan speaks of, is Awareness only.
I am verily you, you are verily I, just Awareness.
Knowledge of the Jnani is Awareness alone.
Guru is just Awareness.
Space and time are Awareness.
The sun, moon, etc., are Awareness only.
Motion is Awareness.
Meditation, enquiry, devotion, japa, etc., are Awareness only.
The Real and the unreal are Awareness only.
  Awareness is Consciousness alone.
That which Is, is, only Consciousness.
CONSCIOUSNESS ALONE IS THE MOTHER-FATHER, EVERYTHING.
WE, ALL, ARE THAT ONLY. NOTHIG ELSE WE CAN EVER BE ! BE THE SUPREME JOY OF SILENT AWARENESS, shaking off the imagined limitation, employing the twin cleanser of the Enquiry.

Thank you,
   Anil