Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 755811 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #855 on: May 11, 2011, 04:21:18 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan says in ULLadu Narpadu, Anubandham, Verse 10:

Deham, naham, koham, soham:

Deham - the body
naham - na aham - is not 'I'
koham - ka aham - where is this 'I'
soham -  sa aham - it is in Heart, aham, for those who question,
where is this 'I'?



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #856 on: May 12, 2011, 08:26:54 AM »
“ The body is like an earthen pot, inert . Because it has no consciousness of ‘I’, and because daily in bodiless sleep we touch our real nature, the body is not ‘I’. Then who is this ‘I’ ? Where is this ? In the Heart-cave of those that question thus, there shines forth as ‘I’, Himself, Lord Siva of Arunachala.”
                                                                                  Verse—10, Forty On What Is : Supplement

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Verse—10, ULLadu Narpadu : Supplement, is, in my view, an extraordinary versification of the ancient Vedantic Reavelation.
Deham naham. ( I am not the body.)
Koham ? (Who am I ?)
Soham. ( He is I. )

I, the Self, cannot be the body. Why ? Sri Bhagwan establishes this truth by giving two reasons in the Verse.
1.   The body is insentient like the earthen pot and therefore this earthen pot cannot have the sense of ‘I’. The body, as it is, cannot have any consciousness of its own existence. ( Naham deham)
2.   All of us daily experience the truth of our existence as ‘I am’ even in deep sleep when the body is absent. Next, Sri Bhagwan teaches that by direct path of the Self-enquiry “ Who am I ?” ( Koham ?)  one can realise the truth of his own existence and abide as the very Self that he in truth is. Result of the enquiry is ‘He is I’ ( Soham ). 
 
 Therefore, in the above Verse, Sri Bhagwan teaches that first of all one must discriminate and reach the conclusion with conviction that this inert body is not ‘I’. Initiating ‘Who am I ?’  enquiry with this conviction, ‘He is I’ (Soham) is the true and final experience. So, Sri Bhagwan teaches a great truth through this Verse;  ‘He is I’ is the actual experience and not the one for practicing meditation.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil

     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #857 on: May 12, 2011, 08:32:09 AM »
Dear Devotees,

Ego-mind is the root of all mischiefs. What is the ego ? The insentient part of the ego consists of the latent tendencies. In association with the Light of the Consciousness, the ego rises as the seer and expands into the subject, object , i.e. seer and the seen. But question is how can the Pure Radiant Being rise as the ego ? Sri Bhagwan says that a rope cannot be mistaken for as a snake either in pitch darkness or the broad day-light. Only in dim light, the mistake occurs of a rope appearing to be a snake. So also, for the Pure Radiant Being to rise as the ego is possible in the Light of the Consciousness which has got diffused after passing through ignorance or the darkness.  This darkness or the ignorance is termed as the Original Ignorance, or the Original Sin.

Light of the Consciousness passing through the Original Ignorance is the Reflected Light. This Reflected Light is the Pure Mind. And this Pure Mind is none other than God Himself. Sri Bhagwan says that God is well-known to be unified with Maya.  Therefore, the Reflected Light is God.

This much for the Pure Mind. What is the impure mind ? For, Pure Mind implies impure mind also. Pure Mind is the Satvic Mind. Rajasic and and the tamasic mind are the impure mind which are projected from the Satvic or the Pure Mind. It is the Rajasic mind or the active mind that rises as the ego and  which is projected from the Satvic Mind through another reflection. Therefore, the ego is the product of the second reflection. First reflection through the Original Ignorance and the second reflection through darkness consisting of the latent tendencies. Tamasic mind is the dull mind which appears as the world. Sri Bhagwan says that a unique power regulates all activities of the individuals and of the universe. However, all these are only phenomena passing through the Reflected Consciousness on the substratum of the Self or “I am“.

But Sri Bhagwan says, “ What is the meaning of this talk of truth and falsehood in the world which is itself false ?” ( Talk---286)
We exist even without the mind. Do we not ?
We are, I am, in sleep, even without the association of the body and the mind. In the waking and the dream states we know ourselves to be the body and the mind only. We cannot separate ourselves from what is innate. We can separate ourselves only from what is external to our being. Therefore, if we are merely the body and the mind, how can we exist without the very body and the mind in deep sleep ? So, Sri Bhagwan says in Talk—286 that ego is not one with the body. 

So, In this false and unreal world, who am I ? Am I false and unreal too ? My knowing that I am Anil is false and unreal and is of the category of the mind. My knowing that “I am I” is Swarupa of the category of only EXPERIENCE.

Thank you,
    Anil       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #858 on: May 12, 2011, 10:44:33 AM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. In deep sleep, we exist without body and mind.  So the "I" is different from body and mind. But Sri Bhagavan has said that one
should have a body to do self enquiry and attain self realization.

Once Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni was telling Sri Bhagavan: If we have a stead flow of Rs 2 or 3 per month [those years!], for our food, one can always live happily and do self inquiry.  Sri Bhagavan said: Nayana! Why Rs 2 or 3. The body alone is necessary to do self inquiry and attain self realization.   



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #859 on: May 12, 2011, 06:26:43 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes.  In my view, that is the main reason for the appearance and disappearance of the body. Appearance of the body on waking and disappearance in sleep. To drive the point home that the body is not ‘I’ that we have got a body. ‘I am ‘ is ever present whether body appears or disappears. Therefore, the purpose of our having a body is to cease identification with the body, practice Self-enquiry and attain Realisation of the Self.

We exist without the body and the mind in sleep. We perceive the body and the world on waking up from the sleep. We conclude continuity in our existence from the knowledge in the waking state. So, Sri Bhagwan says that jiva must be concluded to be in Pure State in sleep in which the body and the world are not perceived. But He says that the state of sushupti must be entered consciously only in the waking state. Sushupti is ever-present whether in all states of sleeping, dreaming as well as in waking, whether we are aware of It or not.

Thank you so much sir for a very nice post.

Regards,
  Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #860 on: May 12, 2011, 07:37:07 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. Body is necessary to realize that the body is not necessary.
The mind is necessary to rub it and make it a pure Ruby.  This is what Sri Bhagavan has said in Verse 5, of Sri Arunachala Ashtakam. This verse 5 is a tricky verse. One has to read it and read the commentaries and understand it slowly/



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #861 on: May 13, 2011, 07:53:52 AM »

As the string in (a necklet of) gems, it is thou in Thy unity who penetratest all the diversity  of beings and religions. If, like a gem when it is cut and polished, the impure mind is worked against the wheel of the pure mind to free it of its flaws, it will take on the light of Thy grace and shine like a ruby, whose fire is unaffected by any outward object. When a sensitive plate has been exposed to the sun, can it receive impressions afterwards ? Oh benign and dazzling Aruna Hill ! Is there anything apart from Thee ?
                                          Verse—5,  Eight Stanzas to Sri Arunachala

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I have not read any commentary so far on ‘Five Hymns To Sri Arunachala’, except a few on ‘Sri Arunachala Pancharatna. But what I intuitively understand, the meaning and implication, of the Verse—5 of the ‘Sri Arunachala Ashtakam’ is as follows :
The meaning of the first line in the present Stanza is what has been declared by Lord Sri Krishna In Verse—4, Ch—3, of the Srimad Bhagvad Gita.
“ The whole of this universe is permeated by Me as unmanifest Divinity, and all beings rest on the idea within Me. Therefore, really speaking, I am not present in them.”
The second line of the Verse, in my opinion, means that the impure mind should be checked and destroyed by the Pure Mind as a gem is cut and polished against a wheel. Sri Bhagwan has said elsewhere that Tamasic mind should be subdued by the Rajas and the Rajas by the Satva.  Satvic ( Pure Mind ) mind shines in the Light of the Self like the ruby, free of all flaws.

If a sensitive plate is exposed to the sun-light, it can no more take on any further images.The mind, once exposed to the Light of the Self cannot reflect the body and the  world any more. The Sun is the Self only. Therefore, if the rays of the sun are so powerful that they prevent images from being formed, how much more so should be the  Power of the Light of the Self ? Therefore, O Lord ! there is nothing apart from you—not even the ego and the ignorance.

Thank you so much for a very nice post sir.

Regards,
   Anil




eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #862 on: May 13, 2011, 07:56:33 AM »

PURE BEING>SUPREME BEING (THIS SHINES FORTH)
                                               |
                  PURE MIND-SATVA MIND-ISVARA
                                               |
                RAJAS                                            TAMAS 
                 EGO                                              WORLD
              (AHAM)                                          (IDAM)
                                                              Talk—577
Therefore, rajasic and tamasic mind are projected from the Satvic Mind. ( This is what Sri Bhagwan refers to as the second reflection giving rise to ego, the first reflection being the rise of the Pure Mind Itself who is none other than Isvara. Rajas, the active mind is the ego and all its activities. Tamsic, or the dull mind gives rise to veiling and projects the world (idam) of what is the Vastu of the  Supreme Consciousness and on the screen of the Consciousness.

Thank you,
   Anil

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #863 on: May 13, 2011, 09:26:32 AM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. The meaning posted by you is  correct.

The translation given in English version of the Collected Works is:

As a string in [a necklet of ] gems, it is Thou in Thy unity who penetratest all the diversity of beings, and religions.  If like a gem,
when it is cut and polished, the [impure] mind is worked agains the wheel of [pure] mind to free it of its flaws, it will take on the light of
Thy grace [and shine] like ruby, whose fire is unaffected by any outward object.  When a sensitive plate has been exposed to the sun, can it receive impressions afterwards? Oh, benign and dazzling  Aruna Hill!
Is there anything apart from Thee?

Sri Bhagavan does not specify as impure and pure mind. He says in
Tamizh original - mind is only rubbed on mind -.  But we have to take
the meaning as above.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #864 on: May 13, 2011, 04:51:05 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for a very nice post sir.
From the translation of the Verse—5 of the Eight Stanzas on Sri Arunachala, taken in the ‘Collected Works’, in which ‘pure mind’ and ‘impure mind’ has been mentioned in brackets,  I understood that perhaps Sri Bhagwan has used only the term mind in the original Tamil version of the Verse.
‘If , like a gem when it is cut and polished, the (impure) mind is worked against the wheel of the (pure) mind to free it of its flaws, it will take on the light of Thy grace (and shine) like a ruby,, whose fire is unaffected by any outward object.”

Sri Bhagwan : Atman is realised with mruta manas (dead mind), i.e., mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind sees its own source and become That. (Talk—99)

Sri Bhagwan says that to see the objects, reflected light of the mind is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it.
Elsewhere, Sri Bhagwan says that ‘I-thought’ and ‘this’-thought  are both emanations from the same light. ‘I-thought’ is related to the rajoguna and ‘this’-thought to tamoguna. In order to have the have the Reflected Light ( Pure Satva), free from ) rajas and tamas it must shine forth as ‘I-I’, unbroken by ‘this’-thought.

Dear sir, from the above Statements of Sri Bhagwan, one is left with no doubt that by ‘the mind is worked against the wheel of the mind to free it of its flaws, it will take on the light of Thy grace’, sri Bhagwan means that when the impure mind is destroyed by the Pure mind, mind sees its own source and become That.  Self is realised with the mind turned inward devoid of thoughts. Devoid of thoughts means the Satva Mind (Pure mind) free from rajas and tamas.
Therefore, what the Verse implies, in my view, is as follows :
Lower mind should be vanquished by the Higher Mind. Tamas by rajas and rajas by Pure Satva. And then Pure Satva merges with the Source, i.e., the Self. Only the Self, the Swarupa remains.

Reagards,
   Anil       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #865 on: May 13, 2011, 05:24:26 PM »


Dear Anil,

Muruganar says about Pure mind or Suddha manas, in a few places
in Guru Vachaka Kovai. One such verse is 1106:

The pure mind of the Jnani, which exists and shines as the Witness, is a mirror, that reflects even the impure thoughts that arise in His Presence, in those, whose minds are completely warped. Thus, he mystifies the minds of others in His presence by giving the impression that he is a deluded person.

Muruganar describes the mruta manas or dead mind, in a slightly different fashion.  In his verse 1117 of GVK he says:

The Swarupa alone exists in the Swarupa, the non dual fullness
as pure consciousness and supreme grace. Within it the differences of 'I' [the seer] and 'this' [the seen] do not exist. Therefore, those whose mind have dived deep and died in that fullness, will not suffer and lament in the false life of duality that is an imaginary appearance within it.



Arunachala Siva.
       

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #866 on: May 13, 2011, 10:43:17 PM »
About reflecting ones own impurities.
Some years ago, I recall an incident. I have this book .

I got home from work and somehow some feelings of anger, frustration were arising because of something, I looked at that book, and in that photo I saw angry and frustrated Bhagavan, I thought, wait a minute, Bhagavan is always smiling on that book and now He is not. Then i forgot it. After some time, again something happened and some feelings of anxiousness mixed with panic or so have risen, unconsciously i looked at that book again, and to my amazement I saw Bhagavan looking anxiously and frustrated at me. This blew my mind very much, since it was like a mirror which was even better than a natural mirror of a body. Of course it is my mind projecting, but only with this photo on that book it was so clearly seen like never nowhere in my life. It is hard to explain...

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #867 on: May 14, 2011, 09:51:59 AM »
“To the eyes of those [ignorant people]who are deluded by by the sense of doership, the Sahaja Jnani, who lives transcending even the sattva-guna, may sometimes appear like one who has much deceptive rajo-guna. On account of that, do not doubt [their Jnana, because the rajo-guna is merely a reflection of the rajasic thoughtsof the onlooker.”
                                                                      Verse—1107, GVK, Tr.  Sri Sadhu Om

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri amiatall,

Pure mind of the Jnani exists and shines as the witness.  Sri Bhagwan says that Pure Mind is undoubtedly the true consciousness. But still it is called satvic mind because the knowledge of being witness is the function of abhasa, reflection. But importantly Sri Bhagwan says that the satvic mind is by itself inoperative. Because satvic mind is the witness of the rajasic. But there is no rajo-guna in the jivanmukta. Therefore, it follows that that His Mind, Satvica, is mere witness.

Yes. His Mind exists and shines as the witness and reflects exactly our defective thoughts and bhavas. I am certain that all of us must be having similar experiences as Sri amiatall has expressed in his post. If I am angry, He doesn’t look all that pleased. If I am experiencing love and devotion, He looks full of Grace and ocean of nectar, I f I have feeling of doing some wrong to others, He does not look so benevolent. And so and so forth. This, one can experience every time he looks at Him daily. Hence, Sri Muruganar teaches that a Sahaja Jnani’s life transcends even the sattva-guna, but to an ignorant person He may appear as One who has much deceptive rajo-guna. This is perfectly in line with Sri Bhagwan’s own Teaching.

THOUGHS AND BHAVAS, PERTAINING TO RAJO-GUNA AND WHICH GET REFLECTED IN HIS PRESENCE, ARE THE RAJASIC THOUGHTS AND BHAVAS OF THE ONLOOKES.

I thank you both for a very nice discussion.
Regards,
   Anil   
     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #868 on: May 14, 2011, 01:17:04 PM »


Dear amiatall and Anil,

Yes. Our emotions are reflected whenever we see the world or even
Sri Bhagavan's photograph.  But for a Jnani, too such reflections come when he sees something, a person or an object. But
a Jnani's reflections are not his own but only that of the person before him.  A Jnani has no emotions of him to transfer. But we,
as you said in the case of GVK photograph, transfer our emotions to the world and others. When Echammal came to Sri Bhagavan with her grandchild when her foster daughter had died after delivery of the new born baby, she placed the young babe on His lap and cried uncontrollably.  Sri Bhagavan too cried for quite some time. He did not 'teach' Echammal that the body is impermanent etc., That is not the time to teach philosophy. First, let her cry out and He also cried.

Whereas we are just opposite. When we have lost our wallet in the bus or taxi, then we see the world as full of thieves.  When we are hungry and the restaurant wallah does not give the dish quickly and if it takes time, we think that that fellow is merciless. We are
not able to enjoy the roses in the garden of our neighbour as much as we enjoy the roses in our own rose garden.

             


Arunachala Siva.     

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #869 on: May 14, 2011, 03:41:03 PM »
Yes. Since time we start to recognize it, something happens. The going inward starts by itself, because mind starts to realize that its and only its own projections that are being seen. And as it comes to rest in the heart all these drop away, then only Self itself is and nothing else. So,

"758. The best way of quelling the movements of the mind that, as the perceiver, the objects perceived and the act of perception, runs far and wide, is that of employing the mind to see itself through itself". @GVK

Therefore

"760. Having enquired and known that the nature of the abiding, supreme, true swarupa is identical to the nature of the mind in the interval between two thoughts, abide in the Heart to attain eminence. This is the state of pure being." @GVK

"Bhagavan: Know the pure state [suddha], your own real nature, by keenly observing the interval between two thoughts." @Padamalai, p. 180. v. 13

Further Bhagavan Ramana explains:

"The ego in its purity is experienced in the intervals between two states or between two thoughts. The ego is like the worm which leaves one hold only after it cathes another. Its true nature is known when it is out of contact with objects or thoughts. You should realise this interval as the abiding, unchangeable reality, your true being, through the conviction gained by the study of the three states, jagrat[waking], swapna[dreaming] and sushupti[sleeping]." @Masharshi's Gospel, 25-6

And the conclusive commentary:

"If that mind-free consciousness, which is at the meeting point of deep sleep and waking, somehow becomes continous, then the state that then dawns is declared by sages to be the state of deliverance" @Sri Ramanaparavidyopanishad, v. 32


Very profound and simple explanations.