Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756215 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #780 on: April 23, 2011, 03:56:54 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

You have written :
1.   Muruganar says that in the absence of mind, it is the power of the Self within, which does all these.
2.   It is this pure mind, faultless and blemishless, which does not harbour any other thoughts but thoughts of the Self, does all the work of attending to daily chores, speaking , and writing poems and teaching.

Dear sir, the above two statements may be viewed as two different statements but, in my view as I understand them, both statements are reconciled and mean one and the same thing. How ? Because the Pure mind, or the Sattva mind, or the Sudha mind is the same as the power of the Self.

Satvic mind is surmised of the jivanmukta and of Iswara. “ Otherwise,” they argue, “ how does the jivanmukta live and act ?” The satvic mind has to be admitted as a concession to argument. The satvic mind is in fact the Absolute Consciousness. ( Talk—68)

Thank you so much.

Regards,
   Anil                                                                                                                     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #781 on: April 23, 2011, 06:58:08 PM »


Dear Anil,

Very true.  Sri Bhagavan says in Sri Arunachala Astakam, Verse 5:
If the mind is rubbed against the mind, the mind becomes Ruby and
shines.  This is an advaitic paradox.  The mind is Jiva or Sukshma
Sarira.  There is no Jivatma and Paramatma, according to Sri Bhagavan. This mind when becomes Pure, it merges with the Self. Or the mind itself is the Self.



Arunachala Siva.



 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #782 on: April 24, 2011, 11:52:37 AM »
Past and future are dependent on the present. The past was present in its time and the future will be present too. Ever-present is the present. To seek to know the future and the past, without knowing the truth of time today, is to try to count without the number ‘One’.
                                                                                                                     Verse—15, Reality in Forty Verses

Without us there is no time and space. If we are only bodies, we are caught up in time and space. But are we bodies ? Now, then and always—here, now and everywhere—we are the same. We exist, timeless and spaceless we.
                                                                                                                        Verse—16, Reality in Forty Verses

Dear Devotees,

Each and every utterance of Sri Bhagwan (even that which He made casually), each and every Verse that He composed, His every Look as well as His Silence, contain contents of far reaching significance for us, His devotees. Well, simply there is no room for doubt whatever about that. I have cited the above two Verses from ULLadu Narpadu to discuss and assimilate only this truth. The meaning of the these Verses as delineated by the great devotee Sri Sadhu Om contain insights hither to not seen by me anywhere and, if properly understood, may open door to Eternity Itself.

What is time ? Our conception of time exists with reference to only the present moment, i.e. ‘now’. Similarly, our conception of place exists only with reference to the first person ‘I’, whom we ever feel to be wherever we are, i.e. ‘here’. These twin conceptions of ‘here’ and ‘now’ pertain to our all the sense in the world in respect of place and time respectively. We understand and conceptualise place and time with reference to only ‘here’ and ‘now’. Therefore, we try to scrutinise the truth of ‘here’ and ‘now’ as closely as we can as follows :
While occurring both future and past are only the present. So, in truth there are not three times, but only one time and that is the present which is innate in our sense of ‘now’. Now, we try to investigate the exact present moment. If we try to attend to the exact present moment, even infinitesimally one billionth of a moment, it is either the past or the future. If we even  attend to the interval between these infinitesimal past and future, then we sense that there is no present moment as such. Therefore, if there is no present moment, what about the past and the future which can occur only in the present moment ? When the foundation of the past as well as the future, i.e. the present, itself is fictitious. There is no time. Then what about our sense of ‘now’ ?

Sri Sadhu Om comes to our rescue with his more than cent-percent truthful insight. He says that just as the ego has two aspects—the real aspect ‘I am’ and the unreal aspect I am Anil or so and so—so also the present has both a real as well as unreal aspect. He says that if the present is experienced as one’s mere being, “ I am”, devoid of all thoughts, it is real; but if this same present is experienced as one of the so called three times chewing thoughts of either past or the future only, it is unreal.
Sri Bhagwan says that trying to seek to know the past and the future without knowing the truth of the present time is like trying to count the number without ascertaining the truth of the sense of ‘one’. So, ever-present is the present. How ? On scrutiny, present was found to be truly non-existent. What is it that is ever-present with us in the sense that is ‘now’ ? “ I AM” ONLY EVER IS, NOW, THEN AND ALWAYS. ( To continue ) 

Thank you,
  Anil             

                         

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #783 on: April 24, 2011, 01:04:51 PM »


Dear Anil,

Very nice. Time and Space are concepts of mind, thoughts.  For example, one gets a good sleeper berth in the train and goes into
deep sleep.  When he wakes up say at 4.am., he thinks he is in
Patna or Bangalore. But in real fact, he is in the train.  Say a person
goes on a touring job, covering one town every day.  When he goes into sleep, in Town B, he wakes up and thinks he is in Town A. So
place is a mental concept. 

Similarly, when a person sleeps after an exhausting day, he immediately goes into deep sleep. He had seen the clock before sleeping, it was 10 pm. When he wakes up at 6 am., he is wondering that he had gone to sleep only just then. So many hours had passed!  How. Again, in deep sleep, both time and space are not there, they are transcended. 

For a Jnani who has no mind, no ego, no thoughts, he does not know both time and space because he has gone past both. Every time is like "wakeful sleep"- Jagrat Sushupti as it is called. So he is ever aware of only NOW and no past and present, no this space and that space.  They have conquered both time and space.



Arunachala Siva.               

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #784 on: April 25, 2011, 07:58:39 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Exactly. What you have said is the essence of the Verse—15 and Verse—16 of the ULLadu Narpadu, illustrated so beautifully and figuratively too. Thank you so much, sir.

Therefore, ‘now’ only is for ever. And this ‘ever-now’ is rooted in ‘Eternal NOW’—“ I AM”. For on analysis, the present as a constituent of the triad, viz., past, present and future is found to be untenable and rather fictitious, like the snake on the substratum of the rope. As on scrutiny, snake is found to be non-existent and only rope remains, so also, on scrutiny the present is found to be untenable and imagined and only “ I AM” remains. Therefore, only “ I am” is now, then and for ever.

Similarly, our idea of place is on account of the pseudo existence of the first person pronoun ‘I’  whom we always feel to be ‘here’. On  enquiry ( Who am I ?), this false little ‘I’ is found to be non-existent and with this root of all mischief go away the idea of place as well as time. And “ I AM ” alone remains—here, there, and everywhere; and now, then , and for ever.

But so long as we keep on identifying ourselves pathologically with the body and the mind, Sri Bhagwan says that we cannot escape the tyranny of the time and place. For, up and down, inside and outside ,left and right are positions which are valid only with reference to the physical body. Likewise, past, future and even the present are mere shifting mental conceptions. But Sri Bhagwan asks,”Are we bodies or the mind ?”

Know this :  “ I AM ; TIME AND SPACE ARE NOT ; I AM—THE SAME NOW, THEN AND EVER ;THE SAME HERE, THER AND EVERYWHERE.”
                                                                                     Sri Bhagwan

Thank you so much once again, sir.

Regards,
   Anil     

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #785 on: April 25, 2011, 12:59:18 PM »


Desr Anil,

A Jnani cannot be confined by space and time, because he has transcended both.  That is why, when Sri Bhagavan was sitting in the Old Hall, He went to Tiruvottiyur, when Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni, was suffering with unbearable pain due to breath trying steal out of his crown, sahasrara.  Sri Bhagavan went their and held His palm on his skull and the pain left.  When Kavyakanta came and told the devotees asked Sri Bhagavan, how could He go to Tiruvottiyur [near Chennai] when He was sitting in the Asramam?  Sri Bhagavan smiled and said: Yes. I also 'felt' that my body suddenly hovered to the sky and descended at a place, which I came to know as Tiruvottiyur later!



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #786 on: April 25, 2011, 04:38:50 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Time and space are only concepts of the mind. They arise after ego arises. One is the Self beyond time and space. Therefore, one exists even in the absence of time and space.

“ The professor asked Sri Bhagwan to extend His Grace to himalthough he soon would be a thousand miles off. Sri Bhagwan said that time and space are only concepts of the mind. But swarupa ( the Real Self )lies beyond mind, time and space. Distance does not count in the Self.” ( Talk—68)

Sri Bhagwan  is the SWARUPA—THE  REAL SELF. Distance does not count in the Self. He, if He so wishes,  can play havoc with our notion of time and space. For, He is beyond mind, time and space. However, He did not wish. How could He ? Perhaps, it all happened involuntarily in the case of Sri Gana Pati Muni. Isn’t it ?

Thank you so much.

Regards,
   Anil 


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #787 on: April 25, 2011, 05:47:44 PM »


Dear Anil,

Perhaps this is one of the few incidents that proved that Sri Bhagavan is the Self and He is everywhere.

In another case, a young boy, his name is also Ramana, stepped into
the waters of Ayyankulam Tank.  The tank is within Arunachaleswara
Temple or just outside.  This boy did not know swimming. He slipped on the green algae on the steps and fell into the tank.  He wanted to come out but he did not know swimming.  With in a minute, an old man came, jumped into the tank and pulled the boy out.  Shivering with cold and fear, the boy thanked calling him "thatha" [grandpa], thank you, and ran away.

Next morning, the young boy Ramana came to Asramam and was standing before Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan asked him: "What?
Ayyankulam water - was it so chill?" He smiled at him. The boy immediately prostrated and then started weeping!  How does Sri Bhagavan know the incident?  Was  He who came as old man and saved the boy?  Who knows all these but only Sri Bhagavan?



Arunachala Siva.           

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #788 on: April 26, 2011, 07:54:01 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

His Appearance as Sri Aruna Maha Giri is the Supreme Act of Grace. His Appearance as Sri Raman Maha Guru, as the Human Embodiment of Grace in the illussory and mental world of time and space, as the Saviour of the ailing mankind, is the Greatest Miracle of Truth to date.

Thank you sir.

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #789 on: April 26, 2011, 07:56:34 AM »
That doctrine is not true which says, ‘There is duality in practice and non-duality in attainment’. Who else is he but the tenth man, both while anxiously searching for himself and after attaining himself ?
                                                                                               Verse—37, Reality In Forty Verses

In my view, the verse—37 of the Ulladu  Narpadu is a very important verse for a sadhak to ponder over and assimilate the meaning and implication of the tenth man in the verse. Who is the tenth man ? Ten fools crossed a river or a stream and wanted to make certain that all ten men crossed safely. All of them started counting. During counting each one left himself out and counted only nine instead of ten. They started weeping over the loss of the tenth man. A passer-by understood their predicament and made them count ten blows including the counter. Exactly similar is the case with us. We are counting everything in the universe whatever may catch our fancy. But our attention  never turns to our B-E-I-N-G without whom no counting is possible. Our mere being  (asi in ‘tat tvam asi’) is the lost tenth man whom we are searching so frantically, exactly as the ten men each searching for the tenth man. Sri Bhagwan says that when you become Self-aware, you would laugh at yourself that day. Will not the ten fools in the above story laugh at themselves that what great fools they are ! That none of them counted himself and counted only nine excluding himself. Sri Bhagwan says the day you would laugh is here and now.

Sri Bhagwan says in the above verse that non-duality is sole Truth –ever. Duality is unreal—ever. It is incorrect to say that duality is true during sadhana or ignorance and non-duality is true only after attainment. Non-dual Supreme Self is alone real even when in the ignorant outlook of the pseudo ego, the very Self appears as the world of duality and diversity, subject and object and names and forms. Ten fools were always ten fools; both during the seeming loss of the tenth man and after their finding the missing tenth man. So also, when we become Self-aware, we will realize that non-duality is always the Sole Truth, both during the period of our apparent ignorance when the non-duality appears to be lost and duality appears to rein supreme, and after attaining the Non-dual Supreme Self. WHO ELSE ARE WE BUT THE TENTH MAN, BOTH WHILE ANXIOUSLY SEARCHING FOR OURSELVES AND AFTER ATTAINING OURSELVES ? Who else are we but the Non-dual sole reality, Being, I am, the Existence itself, both while we are doing sadhana to attain ourselves and after we finally attain ourselves ?

“ To know that there never was ignorance is the goal of all the spiritual teachings. Ignorance must be of one who is aware. Awareness is jnana. Jnana is eternal and natural. Ajnana is unnatural and unreal.”
                                                                   Sri Bhagwan ( Talk—289 )

However, the above does not mean to imply at all that although non-duality is ever the Truth, even during the seeming ignorance, spiritual sadhana is not necessary. Sri Bhagwan says ( Talk—28) that our effort is a sine qua non. It is we who should see the sun. Can spectacles and the sun see for us ? We ourselves have to see our true nature. Not much is required for doing it ! 

Thank you,
    Anil   



Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #790 on: April 26, 2011, 12:22:52 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes. The ego creates the world and the world causes bondage through karmas. Unless the ego is annihilated the duality cannot go.  But the ego is non existent.  With this non existent ego, we see duality. Only with Guru one should have duality and that too till we realize that the Guru and we are the one and the same Being.
[Verse 39 of ULLadu Narpadu, Supplement.]



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #791 on: April 27, 2011, 08:06:43 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan says ( Talk—35 ) that identification with the body is dvaita. Non-identification is advaita. “I am the body” idea arises only after the rise of the ego. Notion of the reality of the world and differentiation( dehatma budhi ) arise from the ‘I am the body’ idea only. This differentiation gives rise to the ’I’-conceit which is the cause for desire, anger, pain, sorrow, lust etc. Therefore, rise of the ego is ignorance. Sri Bhagwan says that the ego not rising, the whole chain of mishaps disappear. And for the prevention of the rise of the ego, Self-enquiry, or Atma-Vichara, as taught by Sri Bhagwan, is the only infallible and adequate means.

Dear sir, as I understand, Verse—37 of the ULLadu Narpadu does not say that a sadhak should practice advaita so long as he retains the ‘I am body’ idea. It is simply, in my view, stated in the Verse that non-duality is the Truth, both during the seeming ignorance as well as after the attainment. But one should first make all-out efforts to remove the lingering ignorance in the form of ‘I am the body’ idea and then, as Sri Bhagwan has revealed things would take the natural course of their own accord and such question of dvaita and advaita would not arise at all. 

Ji. Yes. The Verse—39, Reality in Forty Verses: Supplement, says that Advaita is not to be applied to the Guru even if it is applied to the whole world.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #792 on: April 27, 2011, 08:09:38 AM »
When a devotee expressed that the world in the waking state appears interesting , sleep and dream are not as interesting as the waking state. Sri Bhagwan replied that this interest in the waking state is the cause for the cycle of birth and death.  ( I do not remember exactly the no. of Talk in which this conversation has been recorded.) This interest in the life of phenomena in the illusory world is a vasana and is therefore cause for the bondage, cause for the rebirth.

It is like this as follows :
A sleeper dreams a dream. He sees different events and things in his dream world and experiences joys ans sorrows, pleasures and pain etc. He takes all these things for real, at least till the dream lasts. But when he wakes from the dream, he loses all interest in the dream world, dream objects and the dream itself. Why on waking do we lose all interest in dream. Dream world and dream objects ? Because we at once perceive on waking that the dream world and dream objects are only a part of ourselves and not apart or different from us. This dawn of knowledge, knowledge that it was ourselves who were responsible for the creation of the dream world and dream objects, immediately causes loss of all interest in them. And we are at peace with ourselves, whatever happened in the dream. Sri Bhagwan says that this waking state is also a dream, a waking dream, samsara. When we awake from this waking dream, we realize that it (waking state) is a part of our own Self and not at all apart from It and also that this waking life and the samsara is not an objective reality. Then only this waking life and the samsara would cease to interest us. Because only we think that we are apart from the objects around us, we desire this and that. But as soon as we understand that all these are only the thought-forms, we can no longer desire them. Sri Bhagwan says that all things are like bubbles or froth on water. We are the water and the objects are like bubbles or froth on the water. These bubbles cannot exist apart from the water , but they are not quite the same as water.

Thank you,
     Anil
       

       


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #793 on: April 27, 2011, 02:00:21 PM »


Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan says that while practicing and also on attaining,
one should practice advaita [Verse 37 of ULLadu Narpadu]. Because the tenth man is the same person, while searching and also on finding out the truth. This is the simile given in Verse 37.



Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #794 on: April 27, 2011, 02:19:14 PM »


Dear Anil,

I did not say that duality is in practice. This is permitted only with the
Guru.  What I said was that as long as ego is there, there will be duality and multiplicity.



Arunachala Siva.