Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 756032 times)

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #750 on: March 28, 2011, 05:19:34 PM »
 'na, in 'pranayama' has somehow got omitted in my last post (re-779). So, it should be read 'pranayama' in place of 'prayanama'.

Thank you,
    Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #751 on: March 29, 2011, 10:51:48 AM »
Devotee: Is pranayama necessary ?
Sri Bhagwan : Yes. It is useful.
Devotee :  I did not practice it . Should I undertake it ?
Sri Bhagwan : Everything will be all right with sufficient strength of mind.
Devotee : How shall I get the strength of mind ?
Sri Bhagwan : By pranayama.
Devotee : Is food regulation also necessary ?
Sri Bhagwan : It is certainly useful.
                                                            Talk—528

So, that is it. When the devotee asks whether food regulation is also necessary, Sri Bhagwan replies that it is certainly useful. Food regulation is not necessary but certainly useful. It is an aid in sadhana and is therefore desirable to the extent that it takes care of the physical factors. One need not remain obsessed with food regulation. But when one is in Vichara, one may try to avoid consciously, willingly, and happily, those foods which induce irritation, drowsiness, excitement etc.  Certainly it will be useful in sadhana of the Atma-Vichara. In my view, food regulation may be viewed in this light only. Unduly, not much should be attached to it. No need is there to worry even if one cannot do it. Did Sri Muruganar not sing that Atma-Vichara or the Self-inquiry itself gives the light and the Path is lighted ?


Sri Bhagwan says that association with the sages and pranayama are two sure means to gain the strength of mind besides the other methods. He says that examination of the ephemeral and fleeting nature of the phenomena leads to dispassion. Dispassion is certain to steady the mental activities and give the necessary strength to the seekers. So, enquiry is the first and foremost step to be taken. When Vichara becomes automatic , it results in contempt for wealth, fame ,pleasure etc. and ‘I’-thought becomes clearer for investigation. However, if the aspirant is not temperamentally suited to the Vichara Marga, to the introspective analytical method, Bhakti may be developed and practiced.

Sri Bhagwan says that if, however, one can neither take up Vichara, nor can develop devotion to an Ideal—God, Guru etc., so in the absence of enquiry and devotion natural sedative pranayama  ( breath regulation ) may be tried (Talk—27).This is the Path of Yoga. “ If life is imperilled the whole interest centres round the one point, the saving of life. If the breath is held the mind cannot afford to (and does not) jump at its pets—external objects. Thus there is rest for the mind so long as the breath is held. All attention being turned on breath or its regulation, other interests are lost.”

Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-138 that breath control is not quite necessary for enquiry. However , He says in Talk—223 that if the mind is not able to sink into the Heart because of the tendencies standing as obstacles, a little breath control – mind it only a little breath control—may  be practiced.
                                                                                                                               
Thank you,
   Anil             
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #752 on: March 29, 2011, 02:54:06 PM »



Yes. Very true.  Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?  Ahara niyamam,
moorthi dhyanam, pranayama - all are only devices to control the mind.

They do not kill the mind.  However, instead of having no practice, it is better to have one or more of these.  Like an elephant which is
moving its trunk here and there, due to restlessness, if given an iron chain, it will hold the iron chain and then move its trunk.  Similarly,
instead of having multifarious thoughts, meditation on God [moorthi dhyana] will help orient the mind.  Pranayama will at least control the thoughts during practicing pranyama.  Sattvic food in moderate quantities, will also help a sadhaka, since sattvic food helps develop the sattvic mind.  The other food like meat and fish will enhance the rajo guna [aggressive nature].

But Sri Bhagavan has said categorically, that even without these one can practice meditation or self inquiry.  When one or more of these are practiced all good qualities will come on their own.  Like a king sends his people with good music and dance to receive his son coming from out station, say, after a war, the god will send these good qualities to one who does self inquiry.



Arunachala Siva.       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #753 on: March 29, 2011, 04:33:02 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for a very nice post.  Sri Bhagwan recommended breath control for only those devotees who could not control their mind and engage in enquiry straightaway. He always maintained that pranayama is only an aid for the control of the mind ( Talk—371). One should not stop with the pranayama but must also proceed further to pratyahara, dharana and finally to Samadhi, the Goal. So, mere breath control in itself should not be the goal. It should proceed to Samadhi to reap its full benefit.

Dear sir, in my view, the Verse—14 of the Upadesa Saram settles the ambiguity with regard to breath control or pranayama:

Prana-bandhanal  lina-manasam
Eka-chintanan  nasam-etyadah
                                            V. 14, Upadesa Saram

Prana, bandhanat—by control of breath
Adah  lina-manasam—the mind is temporarily lulled
Eka-chintanam—by meditation on the One ( i.e. Self)
Nasam ety— it (mind) gets annihilated.
When the mind has been temporarily lulled by breath control, it gets annihilated by single minded attention on the Self.

What will one do if he achieves breath control by pranayama but his mind’s tendencies have not been obliterated ? Such breath control is of no avail. Sri Bhagwan says that breath control by itself can never confer Realization, for inherent tendencies are intact and mere breath control cannot erase them. Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says in the Verse-14 of the Upadesa Saram that when mind is  thus lulled by the breath control, then it should be annihilated by single-minded attention on the Self.       

Regards,
   Anil

 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #754 on: March 29, 2011, 05:10:53 PM »


Dear Anil,

Yes.  Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 14 of Upadesa Undiyar that when breath is controlled, thoughts are only restrained. Then through self
attention, the mind should be turned inward so that it fades and dies.
Thus Pranayama is only an aid to control thoughts.  In fact Sri
Bhagavan elaborates in Who am I?,  "Mind will be controlled through
pranayama but once breath control is stopped, the mind will jump out and run here and there due to vasanas.  Self Attention, by turning the mind inward kills the mind.  Vasanas originate from the mind. So when mind is killed, the vasanas are also extinguished.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #755 on: March 30, 2011, 07:54:06 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
 I cited the V. 14 of the Upadesa Saram to say that the mind temporarily lulled by breath control is destroyed by single-minded (eka chintana) on the One ( Self ). The V. 13 of the Upadesa Saram also  teaches what  has been taught in “Who am I ?”, and which has been explained  nicely by you in your last post.

Laya-vinasane  ubhaya-rodhane
Laya-gatam punar bhavati no mrtam
                                                         V. 13, Upadesa saram

Laya, vinasane—temporary absorption or merger and annihilation or destruction (are)
Ubhaya-rodhane—two (kinds of mind) control
Laya-gatam, punar bhavati—(the mind) which is (temporarily) absorbed os merged emerges again
No mrtam—not that which is destroyed or annihilated.
                                                                                                                                 
Therefore, there are two kinds of mind control—temporary absorption and annihilation or destruction. When the mind is temporarily absorbed, it emerges again but not that which is destroyed or annihilated.

So, breath control by itself can achieve only for a seeker what is generally termed as ‘manolaya’. In this context, Sri Bhagwan often used to narrate the story of a yogi who went into ‘manolaya’ after asking for a glass of water. When the yogi regained consciousness after much time elapsed, same thought for water was there in his mind. So, though one may practice breath control for years together, if he has not destroyed the inherent tendencies (vasanas) by single-minded meditation ( eka-chintana) on the Self, he will not know his own Truth.

Regards,
   Anil         
   


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #756 on: March 30, 2011, 07:56:09 AM »
Dear devotees, I am devoting some time on discussion on pranayama because In the beginning, I knew only the Name—Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi. I did not know much about His Teaching except that Sri Bhagwan teaches to ask,”Who am I ?” and by mere asking in this manner enables one to know his Self. I did not know how to do Self-enquiry then as taught by Sri Bhagwan. But never the less, my attention somehow turned, by His Grace, to the consciousness. I remained overwhelmed and I did not know what to do. All my efforts then to know more about Sri Bhagwan and His Teaching proved futile for sometime. Then it ,all of a sudden, dawned on me, on its own accord, that I should practice pranayama  and without guidance whatever, I started practicing pranayama for 10 to 15 minutes. This stabilised my feelings and became aware of intuitive knowledge. From then on, I never looked back.

Dear devotees and seekers, having stated as the above, I wish to say that sri Bhagwan has said that mind and prana (breath) have the same conscious source—Consciousness of the Self. So, if one is reined in the other is automatically reined. However, Sri Bhagwan has said that breath control may only do as an aid and can never lead to the goal itself. So, while doing it mechanically, care should be taken to remain alert in mind, remember the ‘I’-thought and seek its source. Then only we shall find that where breath sinks, there the ‘I’-thought arises. They sink and rise together. The ‘I’-thought will also sink along with the breath.  Sri Bhagwan says that simultaneously another luminous and infinite  “I-I” will manifest and it will be continuous and unbroken.

So, Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-223 that by breath control the mind will be only temporarily quiescent, because tendencies are still there. Breath control by itself cannot bring about the destruction of the inherent tendencies and vasanas. And so long as they are not destroyed, mind will externalise and try to hold on to the external objects. Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says that if the mind is transformed into the Self it will no longer give trouble (223). And that can be done only by meditation.

Thank you,
   Anil         

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #757 on: March 30, 2011, 02:17:43 PM »



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan speaks about two types of absorption of the mind,
in Verse 13 of Upadesa Saram. 

Absorption is of two sorts,
Submergence and destruction
Mind submerged rises again;
Dead, it revives no more.

Sri Bhagavan used to give an example. In the well, water is pulled
out through a bucket tied a rope and sent through a pulley.  When the bucket is inside the water in the well, it is only temporary. It
can be pulled out again.  But if the bucket due to rope having snapped, falls into the well, it is can never be brought out.  The first is submergence and the second is destruction.  Mano layam and Mano nasam.

Sri Bhagavan also says about the self realization, which is temporary and which is permanent in Talks No. 141.



Arunachala Siva.     
 

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #758 on: March 30, 2011, 04:47:32 PM »
Dear eranilkumarsinha,

Quote
So, breath control by itself can achieve only for a seeker what is generally termed as ‘manolaya’. In this context, Sri Bhagwan often used to narrate the story of a yogi who went into ‘manolaya’ after asking for a glass of water. When the yogi regained consciousness after much time elapsed, same thought for water was there in his mind.

One can experiment like this. Before going into deep sleep hold any thought tightly. When woken up in the morning - the same thought will emerge firstly. It is useful for disciples or seekers, if before falling asleep one follows the 'I', even if one does fall asleep, in the morning the first thing one will be aware is the 'I'.

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #759 on: March 30, 2011, 05:05:22 PM »
Since eranilkumarsinha starts with "dear devotees", I have suddenly remembered something.

Robert Adams once said:
----
There are three kinds.

Seeker - who seeks all the time, goes from guru to guru, from meeting to meeting, from seminar to seminar, while sitting at the feet of swami thinks about other swami etc. It may take thousands and thousands of lifes. This is the worst case out of three. But it is better then those who do nothing and think they are human. If sincere in the heart eventually they become disciples.

Disciple - who likes some path and stays with it for a while, but still he has doubts, he has fears, he is confused, so he goes to several gurus at once. If sincere in the heart right guru will appear and eventually they become devotees.

Devotee - who is absorbed into guru, he is oblivious of everything else, he follows the teaching, he lives the teaching, he embodies the teaching, he becomes the guru himself. These kind of people need not long time for self-realization. I better have 5 devotees than 10000 seekers.
----
Then somebody, at that satsang asked "Is there a possibility to bypass all the stages?" and Robert answered: "Yes. Certainly, like NOW. You just need to wake up NOW and stop playing these games".


Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #760 on: March 31, 2011, 02:39:19 PM »


Dear amiatall,

Yes.  Devotee would be the better term. Here again, since Sri
Bhagavan never considered anyone as disciple, this word 'devotee'
is used.  "Seeker" gives many other connotations as you observed.
Sri Ramakrishna took 16 persons and called them as his disciples.
Hence in  RK Maths, this word is liberally used. Whereas in Sri
Bhagavan's case, all of us are only devotees.

As regards the last thought before sleep, yes, what you say is correct. The last thought just before deep sleep, comes out as the
first thought.  I use Arunachala Siva, Arunachala Siva, and I wake
up involuntarily telling, Arunachala Siva, Arunachala Siva.  This happens if one could keep steadily one and the same thought on
every night before going to bed.



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #761 on: April 01, 2011, 12:57:56 PM »
Dear Sri amiatall,

I am also of the view the view that all your observations are true.
"NOW" holds the key to Self-awareness.Forever is in the 'Now'.
All we need do is to wake up in ever-present 'NOW' as you so so beautifully said.
All we need do is to grasp 'HERE' and 'NOW'.
We have falsely moved away.

Thank you,
  Anil
 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #762 on: April 01, 2011, 01:09:58 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I am on 16 days trip to South India. Today i am boarding Saghmitra Expr.
I shall be in Bangalore from 03.04.11 to 06.04.11 and I have been allowed to visit
Sri Ramanasramam from 07.04.11. I wish to stay in Ashram for 3 to 4 days.
I shall leave Bangalore on 16.04.11.

I shall not be writing anything during this period.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil
 

   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #763 on: April 01, 2011, 02:10:39 PM »


Dear Anil,

Very happy to know about your trip of South India and particularly
Sri Ramanasramam.  Spend more time in the Asramam and also in
Big Temple.  Eat food there which is Sri Bhagavan's Prasad.  The visit
will definitely help you to progress in your sadhana.



Arunachala Siva.

amiatall

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #764 on: April 01, 2011, 02:32:58 PM »
Dear eranilkumarsinha,

I am really glad for you.

Please be careful, you may lose body consciousness in the hall  ;D  ;)

Indeed wish you that.