Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 759280 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #615 on: February 26, 2011, 09:35:24 AM »



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan however, stressed the baby-monkey method in His
Who am I?  He advised that the efforts must be necessary on the
part of sadhaka. 

Qn.No.20:

Is it not possible for God and the Guru to effect the release of a soul?

Answer:  God and the Guru will only show the way to release.  They
will not themselves take the soul to the state of release.

In truth, God and the Guru are not different. Just as the prey which has fallen into the jaws of a tiger has no escape, so those who have come within the ambit of the Guru's gracious look will be saved by the Guru and will not get lost.  YET EACH ONE SHOULD, BY HIS OWN EFFORT PURSUE THE PATH BY GOD OR THE GURU AND GAIN RELEASE.  One can know oneself only with one's own eye of knowledge, and not with somebody else's.  Does he who is Rama require the help of a mirror to know that he is Rama?




Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #616 on: February 26, 2011, 04:01:56 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has mentioned that when the devotion is like the baby monkey (partial surrender), effort has to be made by the sadhaka, as the baby monkey must cling to the chest of the mother monkey when she moves around. But when devotion grows with perseverance and culminates in self-surrender, this devotion has been compared by Sri Bhagwan with Kitten monkey. The mother monkey picks up the kitten monkey whenever she moves around. It itself does not has to make any effort.

My present posting is at a place where there is a large population of monkeys. But I hardly cared to observe their behaviour. An army of monkeys are always parading and jumping around the building in which I reside and sometimes a few monkeys  even barge in when there is an opportunity.   So, after reading in one of your posts about the similes of the baby and kitten monkeys, I decided to keenly observe the behaviour of the monkeys. I found that baby monkey is always on the watch out to cling to the chest of the mother monkey.  However, the kitten monkey is invariably picked by the mother when she moves.

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has said that effort must be made by sadhakas  and pursue the path shown by God or Guru to gain release.  “ One can know oneself only with one’s own eye of knowledge and not with somebody else’s. ” Guru shows the Path and it is the duty of the sadhakas to pursue it with perseverance diligently.  Guru is God Himself and He will not realize It for the sadhakas.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
   

ramanaduli

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #617 on: February 27, 2011, 07:03:36 AM »
Dear Anil ji,

Yes. Guru is like doctor who diagonise the patient's ill health and gives medicine. But the patient should eat the medicine to get cured. Doctor cannot have the medicine for patient's sake. In the same way guru shows the path, the sadhaka's duty to follow guru's path to understand who is he.

Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #618 on: February 27, 2011, 09:01:14 AM »



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Efforts are always stressed by Sri Bhagavan.  We should listen to His teachings and act as per His teachings.  But efforts should be our own. 

Dear ramanaduli,

Yes.  One should take the medicine as prescribed by the doctor [guru].  We should put efforts and in the process, there will be sufferings too.  One has to put up with the sufferings.  One Azhwar has sung:

Like the surgeon who cuts your wound, with a sharp heated
knife, you are making me to suffer but the end result is good.
The patient, though the physician is cutting his wound with a
hot knife, he would still love the doctor, [guru], because he is
giving the cure.

VaaLal aRuthu chudinum, maruthuvar paal
maaLatha kadhal NoyaLalan  pola....



Arunachala Siva.     

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #619 on: February 27, 2011, 09:36:32 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri ramanaduli,

Thank you so much for very nice posts regarding effort required by a sadhaka. It is worth mention that some aspirants who came to Sri Bhagwan were in such great hurry that they sought Self-Realization from Sri Bhagwan then and there. Some even wanted It before they could board trains in time, forgetting the effort required to be put in by them.
(posted by a mobile phone from train)

 Regards,
   Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #620 on: February 27, 2011, 10:49:35 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri ramanaduli,

A doctor will not take the medicine for patient's sake. He only diagonises the illness and prescribes the medicines. From here onwards, it is the duty of the patient himself, for his own good, that he adheres strictly to the doctor's prescription.

Good health is natural and desirable. Disease and illness is unnatural and undesirable.  Sri Bhagwan has said that Jnana is eternal and natural and Ajnana is unnatural as well as unreal. He, the Guru, diagonises our disease afflicting us from time immemorial and prescribes panecia, wonderful, magical medicine which cures all sorts of diseases along with their root cause. That wonderful 'Medicine' is Atma-Vichara.
 
Sri Bhagwan says that 'I' cannot eliminate itself. All we need do is to find out its origin and abide there. As I remember, Sri Bhagwan says ( Talk-197) that our effort can extend only thus far. Thereafter, Sri Bhagwan says that the Beyond takes care of Itself. One is helpless after he has reached that stage in one's sadhana. Sri Bhagwan says that no effort can reach It.
 
Sri Bhagwan says that 'your effort is only meant not to allow yourself to be distracted by thoughts'. And He gave infallible weapon, Self-enquiry, to subdue not only thoughts but to  destroy   the thinker as well.

Therefore, our effort must go on untill we find out the Source of our mind and abide there. Then, the  Supreme Guru says that  the Guru takes care from here.

(posted by a mobile phone from a train)

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #621 on: February 27, 2011, 01:56:23 PM »
 I mentioned the word 'panecia' in my previous post. The correct spelling for the word is 'panacea' which means remedy for all diseases,troubles etc. Atma-Vichara, or Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is certainly panacea for not only our diseases and troubles but for the entire humanity.

" To know that there never was ignorance is the goal of all the spiritual teachings. Ignorance must be of one who is aware. Awareness is Jnana. Jnana is eternal and natural. Ajnana is unnatural and unreal."
                                                                                                                            Sri Bahgwan

" Ignorance must be of one who is aware. " Any comment ?

Thank you,
   Anil 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #622 on: February 28, 2011, 08:39:21 AM »


Dear Anil,

"To be aware" is to be aware of something, an object or a thing
outside you.  This implies duality.  That is there is 'I' and there
is 'You'.  Then slowly He, She, It will start. All because of "I'
trying to be aware of something.  This, Sri Bhagavan calls as
"Thanmai"  i.e first person in English, in Verse 14 of ULLadu Narpadu.  This 'Thanmai' gives rise to "Munnilai", You, the second
person.  Then comes "Padarkai", third person like He, She and It.

Basically the problem is due to 'I' which objectifies.  If this
'I', its real nature is investigated then this little 'I' will shine
as there is Awareness, full of effulgence.  One should therefore,
ever remain as Awareness and not be aware of something else.
Hence ignorance is to be aware.  Knowledge is Awareness.

Verse 14 of ULLadu Narpadu:

'You' and 'he' -- these appear only when 'I' does.  But when
the nature of the 'I' is sought and the ego is destroyed, 'you'
and 'he' are at an end.  What shines then as the One also is the
true Self.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #623 on: February 28, 2011, 09:16:40 AM »
For whom is the ignorance ? There must be one who says I do not know. ‘ I know’ and ‘I do not know ’ imply a subject and an object. They are due to duality. Sri Bhagwan says that the Self is pure and absolute, One and alone and that there are no two selves so that one may know the other. So, what is the cause of the duality then ? Obviously, it cannot be the Self which is One and One alone. IT MUST BE NON-SELF.

True Seer is One. Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-144 that the ignorant Self sees the objects according to you. If you say that you see the objects, or if you say you do not know the Real Unity, it implies two selves, one the knower and the other the knowable object. But no one will admit of two selves in himself. The awakened man says that he himself, the present awakened man, was in the deep slumber and not a different man from the present one. There is only one Self and that Self is always aware.

“ There is no such thing as ignorance. It never arises. Everyone is KNOWLEDGE ITSELF. Only Knowledge does not shine easily. The dispelling of ignorance is wisdom which always exists-e.g., the necklace round the neck though supposed to have been lost. Or each of the ten fools failing to count himself and counting only the others.”

                                                        Talks, no-199


Dear devotees and seekers, Sri Bhagwan says one is ever realized. But he says that he does not experience It. Who says so ? To whom is this ignorance ? Nay. To whom this knowledge or ignorance ? Certainly not to the Self. All-Seeing Self is All-Awareness. THEREFORE, IT IS ONLY TINY, INSIGNIFICANT, FALSE, IMAGINED  NON-SELF WHICH IS LAMENTING I DO NOT KNOW. Cease to be non-Self and we are That. Cease to be this and that and you are That. This clearly means, beyond any doubt whatsoever, that ‘I’ is already That. In Truth, it cannot be anything else.

So, ignorance is for the non-Self only. So long as I think that I am ‘i’, the not-Self, All-Seeing Self will be seeing according to ‘i’ only and all are thoughts including ‘i’. Ponder.

Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says that ignorance is only of one who is aware. Awareness is Jnana which is eternal and natural.

Thank you,
   Anil   

 


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #624 on: February 28, 2011, 09:36:54 AM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

"All because of "I'
trying to be aware of something.  This, Sri Bhagavan calls as
"Thanmai"  i.e first person in English, in Verse 14 of ULLadu Narpadu.  This 'Thanmai' gives rise to "Munnilai", You, the second
person.  Then comes "Padarkai", third person like He, She and It."


You have posted a very brilliant explanation of the ensuing problem that we face at present.Thank you so much sir.
All problems are due to 'I' trying to be aware of something outside 'I'. If it is as "It is", as the Self, as 'I', alone, there is neither inside and outside,nor 'i', 'you' etc. There will be no Thanmai to give rise to Munnilai.

Regards,
  Anil

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #625 on: February 28, 2011, 03:59:53 PM »
One cannot remain unconscious even for a trice. “ Even for a trice you do not leave my mind.” So, when we say that we were unconscious in our sleep, we refer only to qualified consciousness. We are so rooted in forms that the relative consciousness such as I, you, he, world, body, etc. is taken to be the Self and when this relative consciousness is absent, as in deep sleep, we say that we were unconscious. No body says in his sleep that he is unconscious. He says so when he wakes up which is the state of the relative consciousness. But Sri Bhagwan says that Consciousness Itself is beyond relative consciousness and unconsciousness. So, everyone intuitively knows that there never was a break in his existence, in his being, implying there never was a break in their consciousness.


“The I-thought is like a spirit, although not palpable, rises simultaneously with the body, flourishes and disappears with it.”
                                                                               Talk-197

I-thought or the ego or the Aham vritti, as everyone is now aware, is the function of the mind and which is Absolute Consciousness broken up by cognition of the thoughts, senses etc. where as the Consciousness or Aham Sphurana or the Light of ‘I-I’ is unbroken and continuous. This unbroken and continuous consciousness is our natural and primal state which asserts itself when relative consciousness subsides.   

Sri Bhagwan says that you are ever realized. The fact of your contrary belief is the obstruction. This contrary belief arises because you think that the non-self is you. This is the mistake. By enquiry, “ Who am I ? ”, we should grasp, hold, and abide in the Self and not take the not-Self to be the Self. There is no doubt whatever that by ‘Who am I ?’ enquiry, practiced as Sri Bhagwan taught, the Self will gradually be evident.   


Sri Bhagwan : There are no two selves-for the self to speak of the non-realization of the Self. ( Talk-317)

Thank you,
    Anil
       

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #626 on: March 01, 2011, 09:32:37 AM »
Beating is the function of the physical heart. The Spiritual Heart Sri Bhagwan speaks of is the Seat of Consciousness or the Consciousness Itself. Therefore, although the Consciousness pervades everything known and unknown, Seat of Realization is the Spiritual Heart within. It cannot be found outside oneself externally. Sri Bhagwan says that ‘just as a dynomo supplies motive power to whole systems of lights, fans, etc., so the Primal Force supplies energy to the beating of the heart, respiration, etc.’. 

Devotee: How is ‘I-I’ Consciousness felt ?
Sri Bhagwan : As an unbroken awareness of ‘I’. It is simply consciousness.
Devotee : Can we know it when it dawns ?
Sri Bhagwan : Yes, as consciousness. You are that even now. There will be no mistaking it when it is pure.
                                                               Talk-205

Our awareness of ‘I’ is broken, appears and disappears, and emanates ghost-like from the ‘I-I’ Consciousness, as sparks proceeds from the fire. ‘I-I’ Consciousness is One Infinite Consciousness encompassing all that is and beyond. With Grace, and Self-attention, It can be recognized as Pure Consciousness. Sri Bhagwan says there is no mistaking It when It is pure.

There is no need for the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana to meditate on an object outside oneself.

Devotee : On what should we meditate ?
Sri Bhagwan : Who is the meditator ? Ask the question first. Remain as the meditator. There is no need to meditate.
                                                                         Talk-205

Remaining merely as  meditator is key to Realization of the Natural, Primal State.

Thank you.
   Anil     



Subramanian.R

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #627 on: March 01, 2011, 11:11:50 AM »



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan says that summa irutthal [i.e being still] is the true
Wisdom-insight.  Jnana Dhrishti.  The arts of telling what happens in a far place, or knowing the past, present and future, knowing other man's mind are all not Wisdom Insight.  [Who am I?]



Arunachala Siva. 

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #628 on: March 01, 2011, 03:52:29 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan says that ‘the highest sidhi is realization of the Self; for, here once you realize the truth you cease to be drawn to the path of ignorance’.

Sri Bhagwan has said that ‘I’ is One, either you spell it as ‘I’ or as ‘EYE’.

“Pleasure and pain are relative and refer to our finite state, with progress by satisfaction of wants. If relative progress is stopped and the soul merges in the Brahman-of the nature of the perfect peace-that soul ceases to have relative, temporary pleasure and enjoys perfect peace-Bliss. Hence Self-Realization is Bliss; it is realizing the Self as the limitless spiritual eye ( jnana dristi ) and not clairvoyance; it is the highest self-surrender. Samsara (the world-cycle) is sorrow.”
                                                                             Talk-28

Self-Realization is realizing the Self as the Infinite Spiritual EYE. Seer is One. “ See That which sees.”

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil

   

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #629 on: March 01, 2011, 03:54:26 PM »
Sri Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai that Jnana tops all sidhis and those who have attained Atma-swarupa have indeed attained all other sidhis in full measure.

 “ Though sidhis are said to be many and diverse, that which tops them all is jnana. Those who have attained other sidhis will long for jnana, but those who have attained jnana will desire non of the other sidhis. Therefore, seek jnana alone.
                                                                  V. 1212, GVK, edited by Sri David Godman


Those who has acquired sidhis are no jnanis. They are as ignorant as the common man or worse. They display their trade far and wide for mere lively-hood.

“ Those who have attained Atma-swarupa have, through that unique attainment, indeed attained all other sidhis simultaneously and in full measure. Like the entire universe existing in space, all other sidhis will eremain, either manifest or unmanifest, in the jnani who is perfected in Atma-jnana.”
                                                                       V. 1213, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Thank you,
    Anil